21 réponses à ce sujet

[Athenau]

On my soldier concussive shot does a listed 360 damage.  With disruptor ammo (+90% shield damage) one concussive shot takes off 8 (!) bars of a Centurion's shields.  An insanity Centurion has 1687 health, so that's around ~1349 damage.  This is WITHOUT a tech burst mind you--the target was unprimed.

Similarly, a single incendiary concussive shot does 7 bars of damage to an insanity turret, or ~1417 damage.

Even if we assume that ammo power damage acts on the total concussive shot damage, that gives us 684 damage against shields and 468 damage against armor.  That means there must be at least a 2x multiplier vs shields and more for armor.

Concussive shot already receives a 4x multiplier vs barriers--I don't know whether that gets increased further with amplification + disruptor or amplification + warp ammo.  Regardless, the numbers above are pretty ridiculous for a skill that primes, detonates and has a 5 sec base cooldown.

[capn233]

It is supposed to do bonus damage to whatever protection if you have an ammo equipped, but I do not know the math of how it works. That's part of why when you run AP ammo the power is "available" to use against armor (ie, the icon is not red).

I had thought I read that the concussive shot ammo power damage is based on your currently equipped weapon's base damage, similar to how it is calculated for sticky grenades.

[Athenau]

I had an Arc Pistol equipped, so if it works off weapon damage it wouldn't be noticeable cuz the uncharged damage is ~90 damage per shot. Actually, now I'm inclined to think that the ammo power damage is a red herring--what it really does is just up the multiplier depending on what ammo power you have equipped. A flat 4x multiplier matches my results pretty closely--so incendiary gives you a 4x bonus vs armor, disruptor gives you 4x vs shields, and barriers are at least 4x no matter what, and maybe more.

[RedCaesar97]

Athenau, is this with the Amplification evolution, or without?

[Athenau]

With. You need the correct ammo power active too. Incendiary doesn't do any extra damage to shields for example.

[Athenau]

Edit:  Duplicate post.

Modifié par Athenau, 23 juin 2013 - 09:53 .

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

I had an Arc Pistol equipped, so if it works off weapon damage it wouldn't be noticeable cuz the uncharged damage is ~90 damage per shot. Actually, now I'm inclined to think that the ammo power damage is a red herring--what it really does is just up the multiplier depending on what ammo power you have equipped. A flat 4x multiplier matches my results pretty closely--so incendiary gives you a 4x bonus vs armor, disruptor gives you 4x vs shields, and barriers are at least 4x no matter what, and maybe more.

Interesting.  I guess it does just flip the multiplier.

Can you test Warp vs Barriers and Armor?

[J4mes]

Want to know what the Soldier Shepard Death Squad is?

Ashley ConcShot specd w/o Amplification and instead Shredder.
James with Carnage.
Shepard with Max Incendary Ammo with Explosive Burst and Amplification ConcShot.
Max out Power Damage on everything available with 150% Power Recharge or higher.

Watch as each room gets melted. Almost as good as Nova spamming Vanguard.

[WillieStyle]

If the 4x multiplier vs ammo type is correct, then a pretty brutal line up would be:
-Soldier Shep with max incendiary ammo on one weapon and disruptor on another
-Ashley with max disruptor ammo
-Garrus with max armor piercing ammo (can't prime but can still trigger bursts and gets 4x damage vs armor)

Between weapon, ammo, amped CS, and tech burst / fire explosion damage you get amazing AoE and single-target dps.

[Gromnir]

Were you by any chance running the R5 Shatter evolution? I've heard that the 2x multiplier against frozen targets has been updated to affect chilled targets as well.

After the updates to concussive shot and the way that combos function, concussive shot has become a potent ability.

[Athenau]

I tested warp, incendiary and disruptor on a banshee, with a listed damage of 320 (different save) both did ~1.33 bars of banshee's barrier per shot (4 bars per 3 shots), which is consistent with a 4x multiplier. So it seems you always get that 4x multiplier against barriers, but never anything better.

Shatter with cryo didn't appear to do anything on chilled targets though. So to sum up:

Incendiary: 4x vs armor/4x vs barriers
Disruptor: 4x Shields/4x vs barriers
Cryo: 4x vs barriers
Warp: 4x vs armor/4x vs barriers

Edit, updated with warp #'s.

It looks like there's no point in using anything other than incendiary/disruptor with conc shot, since incendiary lets you prime things with it (and maybe disruptor does too).  Cryo's only good on unshielded targets AFAICT, but conc shot already rag dolls those so it's pointless.

Modifié par Athenau, 25 juin 2013 - 06:56 .

[RedCaesar97]

Athenau wrote...
It looks like there's no point in using anything other than incendiary/disruptor with conc shot, since incendiary lets you prime things with it (and maybe disruptor does too). 

I performed a few tests with Concussive Shot amplified with Disruptor Ammo in August 2012. Concussive Shot amplified with Disruptor Ammo WILL NOT prime tech bursts.
Link to test 1 (worse test).
Link to test 2 (beter test).

I will add your additional information about protection multipliers to my Amplified Concussive Shot thread later today, along with a link to this thread.

Also, it looks like you did not test AP Ammo, but I assume AP Ammo will only increase damage to armor by 4x as well. I would not bother testing AP Ammo unless you really want to be sure, but I think we can safely assume it match the other test results.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 25 juin 2013 - 12:39 .

[capn233]

It isn't safe to assume anything about ME3 mechanics.

But seriously, just a couple other things. Like Red said, Disruptor sadly never primed tech burst's. It will however show a mini electric graphic for no apparent reason, but it isn't a TB.

I guess it was too much to hope that Warp would raise CS multiplier to barriers even higher, oh well.

Cryo's only saving grace is that it freezes unshielded targets with amplification. There also seems to be something peculiar about the windows for Cryo Explosions when I have run through the campaign. For some reason it seems like you can set off a CE right after the target is hit, but before the freeze animation completes. But if you miss that small window, you have to wait until it is completely frozen for it to give you a CE. This is mainly relevant when Shepard uses a freeze power on a target and immediately orders a squad member to fire insta-Concussive Shot at them.

[Gromnir]

I guess that leaves a few questions in my mind:

-Does armor-piercing ammo apply the cover penetration effect?
-Do applicable ammo types cause extra damage to unprotected targets (ie health damage)? Is this the same 4x multiplier?
-Does R5 shatter evolution actually deal double damage on chilled targets, or only targets who are frozen? If it applies to chilled, it might make sense to bring along squad cryo ammo.
-If R5 shatter applies to chilled: does it add base damage (ie x5 multiplier) or double the total damage (ie x8 multiplier) when used on a target subject to the x4 damage multiplier?

Edit: added 4th question

Modifié par Gromnir, 28 juin 2013 - 10:51 .

[capn233]

-No.
-I don't think so.
-It is supposed to work on chilled targets ever since 1.04 maybe. It does in MP. But chilled targets are shielded or armor and so CS doesn't do much damage to them to begin with.  Or a chilled Phantom or Banshee, both of which are relatively rare in SP.

Modifié par capn233, 27 juin 2013 - 03:49 .

[Athenau]

AFAICT shatter doesn't do anything to chilled targets (at least it didn't improve damage to a banshee's barriers when using a cryo conc shot).

[RedCaesar97]

Athenau wrote...

AFAICT shatter doesn't do anything to chilled targets (at least it didn't improve damage to a banshee's barriers when using a cryo conc shot).

Concussive Shot amplified with Cryo Ammo and the Shatter evolution do not really mix all that well. From my experience, Concussive Shot amplified with Cryo Ammo will always try to freeze a target and will not actually use the force/damage from the Shatter evolution. Instead, it will always re-freeze the enemy which is rather pointless.


As an aside, I wonder how much power damage you can get from Concussive Shot?
Base Damage: 200
+20% at rank 3
+30% with rank 4 Force and Damage evolution
+30% from Fortification rank 5 Power Damage evolution.
+10% power damage from Combat Mastey rank 3
+50% from all Serrice Council armor
+25% from all power damage Intel bonuses
+30% from SMG/Pistol Power Amplifier V mod

Total power damage: 200 + 195% = 200 + 390 = 590 damage

So with the 4x multiplier against shields when amplified with Disruptor Ammo, that should give you 590 x 4 = 2360 damage versus shields. Is that enough to completely remove the shields from any enemy in the game at level 60?

Also -- if the bonuses work correctly -- some squadmates can increase Shepard's power damage with their Squad Bonus evolutions in their passive talents. I think Garrus can add +10% power damage to the squad if I recall.

[Athenau]

 

So with the 4x multiplier against shields when amplified with Disruptor Ammo, that should give you 590 x 4 = 2360 damage versus shields. Is that enough to completely remove the shields from any enemy in the game at level 60?

Everything except for a phantom I think.  But that's overkill.  Soldiers have the best ammo power damage in the game, so if you're using a high-damage weapon you'll strip any remaining shields on your next shot after a disruptor conc shot hit anyway.

Some funny concussive shot footage.  You can spam that crap for days.  Either they get hit, or they do a slow, stupid barrel roll (good thing enemies can't dodge like Shepard) so you can line up easy headshots.  It's win win!  Also watch what concussive shot does to the brute at the end.

Soldier pretty good class, guys.

Modifié par Athenau, 29 juin 2013 - 02:52 .

[capn233]

Unlike at release where it was one of the weakest.

Then we got a bunch of powerful DLC guns and then they changed the tech combos.

[RedCaesar97]

Athenau wrote...
Soldier pretty good class, guys.

capn233 wrote...
Unlike at release where it was one of the weakest.

Then we got a bunch of powerful DLC guns and then they changed the tech combos.

Pretty much what Capn wrote.

The Soldier was clearly the weakest class at launch until the changes to tech explosions, particularly fire explosions. DLC weapons also certainly helped, but they helped all classes so that is not all in the Soldier's favor.

Plus some weapons (like the Arc Pistol) were clearly ignored by a lot of players. And a lot of the weapons got buffed in the last patch so that helps as well.

[Gromnir]

Athenau wrote...

AFAICT shatter doesn't do anything to chilled targets (at least it didn't improve damage to a banshee's barriers when using a cryo conc shot).

I would be certain that the check for shatter is made BEFORE the cryo effect is even applied, thus you could not benefit from shatter in the same use of concussive shot that applies chill/freeze. 

I don't think I would have ever called soldier a weak class, even at launch.  Adrenaline rush was always a powerful ability, and particle rifle + incendiary ammo (R6: explosive burst) was a potent combination.  I would simply say that they have more viable options now with the various changes.

[Athenau]

Yup, the soldier wasn't too great at release (and the arc pistol was garbage back then). But now I think he's a candidate for the strongest, even without the DLC weapons.

Edit:  I do think my original flame spam soldier (Hornet + Paladin) was top tier even at release though.  But in general, the soldier was a little underwhelming compared to the rest.

Modifié par Athenau, 29 juin 2013 - 12:02 .