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At what point did it become clear to you that there was no hope for redeeming the endings?


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#376
dreamgazer

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IanPolaris wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

2. I've never heard it said anywhere that they did choose synthesis in the next cycle. Just that Liara's beacon gave them what they needed to win.


Gamble on twitter said this speaking as the official Bioware rep.  This is canon.


They used the Crucible in the future cycle, yes, but I'm pretty sure he didn't say what option was chosen. 


I am pretty sure he did specify (or someone did).  Regardless, the use of the crucible at all after Shepard refused was nothing more than a slap in the face of the player.

-Polaris


If you can find it, I'd like to read confirmation of synthesis being chosen.

Gamble stated on Twitter that he liked the outcome of synthesis, but not that it was what the next cycle chose.

#377
IanPolaris

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AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
  Give the next cycle even 10,000 years to prep, knowing thinking the crucible doesn't work, and having a heads up not only on Reaper Tech but how it trapped this cycle, and things likely would be very, very different.


Fixed. The Crucible works.


Wrong.  You don't get to alter my posts and change what I said.  I MEANT what I said.  The next cycle does know the crucible doesn't work because Liara tells them first thing.

Logically, they should not even try to build it.  This was bioware urinating on the choices of your Shepard.

-Polaris

#378
KiwiQuiche

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dreamgazer wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

2. I've never heard it said anywhere that they did choose synthesis in the next cycle. Just that Liara's beacon gave them what they needed to win.


Gamble on twitter said this speaking as the official Bioware rep.  This is canon.


They used the Crucible in the future cycle, yes, but I'm pretty sure he didn't say what option was chosen. 


I am pretty sure he did specify (or someone did).  Regardless, the use of the crucible at all after Shepard refused was nothing more than a slap in the face of the player.

-Polaris


If you can find it, I'd like to read confirmation of synthesis being chosen.

Gamble stated on Twitter that he liked the outcome of synthesis, but not that it was what the next cycle chose.


Also, wasn't the person who made the Crucible comment just some writer, not the director or something? (anyone got a link to it?)

#379
IanPolaris

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dreamgazer wrote...

If you can find it, I'd like to read confirmation of synthesis being chosen.

Gamble stated on Twitter that he liked the outcome of synthesis, but not that it was what the next cycle chose.


I'll see if I can find it.  You are right that I may be conflating what Gamble said he liked with what the future cycle chose.  Nevertheless,  it's irrelevant to my larger point.  The fact that the future cycle uses the crucible at all amounts to Bioware urinating on the choice your Shepard made NOT to use it.  Just because a non-crucible win wasn't possible this cycle doesn't mean that this need be the case next cycle.

-Polaris

#380
IanPolaris

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

Also, wasn't the person who made the Crucible comment just some writer, not the director or something? (anyone got a link to it?)


It was Gamble and that's about as "official" as it gets.

-Polaris

#381
PMC65

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

Also, wasn't the person who made the Crucible comment just some writer, not the director or something? (anyone got a link to it?)


It was Mike Gamble (Mike Gamble: https://twitter.com/...770232138301440) ... "Some future cycle, yes. The new star-gazer scene should imply that."

EDIT: Image IPBby IanPolaris

Modifié par PMC65, 25 juin 2013 - 03:36 .


#382
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

He also turned off the crucible and closed the citadel.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  Come on Darth, give it up.  Even the writers admitted that this is in fact a plot hole (as is the ME1 conduit) because the writers when they made the scene forgot all about ME1

:huh: The citadels in an entirely different system than it was before.

How exactly would the conduit be able to connect to it when it's no longer where it's suppose to be? I'm not sure, but I don't think mass relays can just up and connect to a point when it's radically been shifted, at least I hope they can't. If that's the case, and planetary positions, locations, and general space and time mean nothing to them functioning, than I will say that mass effect is much less logical than many people here claim, since that makes no damn sense. Come to think of it, how are they able to phase objects through solid matter when they fire them? And how is it they can slow them down right before exiting to match the same speed and trajectory they had before they entered the realy, as we have been shown with the conduit.

Is it stated that mass relays can phase you through solid matter without any problems? If so, why the hell would you consider anything space magic after that point? You have phasing technology that works instantly, how the hell do you doubt anything after that? Come to think of it, do we even know the catalyst closes the citadel? Or if it's just automatically closing due to the massive energy spike or something akin to a full system reboot to the entire structure? Refuse nevers shows the citadel closing, and neither does synthesis. Only in control, which is basically deleting the old operating system of a computer and installing a new one, which could make the entire citadel effectively shut down to reboot. I don't even know at this point, neither do you, and if what you claim is true, neither does anyone on the planet. But if that's the case, what makes your reality more valid than my own? My interpretation of events less valid than yours? Does a plothole of a plothole even mean anything at all?


Yes, the Citadel is in an entirely different system than it was before, but it doesn't matter.

50,000 years of galactic rotation is a long time. Stars move. The conduit on Ilos and the monument on the Citadel worked just fine. It didn't matter that the location was entirely different than it was 50,000 years earlier. Don't you see? They are not part of the relay network. They are keyed to each other and only to each other. The big one knows where the little one is. They worked fine 50,000 years ago, and they worked fine 3 years ago. It didn't make sense then, and it doesn't make sense now. They phased you through solid matter 3 years ago. They can phase you through solid matter today.

The relays are Image IPB  FTL is Image IPB  Destroy is Image IPB  Synthesis is Image IPB  The reapers are Image IPB  Control is Image IPB  Biotics are Image IPB 

I love playing Adepts!!! Image IPB for the win.Image IPB

The difference is that there is good Image IPB, and there is bad Image IPB.  The endings are a version of bad Image IPB in my humble opinion. My new blog post  -- link in my signature -- tells you why I consider it bad Image IPB.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 juin 2013 - 03:39 .


#383
sH0tgUn jUliA

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board glitch post

#384
PMC65

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dreamgazer wrote...

If you can find it, I'd like to read confirmation of synthesis being chosen.

Gamble stated on Twitter that he liked the outcome of synthesis, but not that it was what the next cycle chose.


There was a post that read "When my brother was at games com this year, he talked to Jessica Merizan, who said that if they'd make any sequels, Synthesis will have happened either way. It doesn't matter if Shepard chose it or not, it will still have transpired at that point."

Jessica Merizan responded with "Just noticed this thread. I never said that, nor is it true. I'm not sure who this person's brother is, but he is mistaken. Locking this down as it is unfortunately 20 pages based on complete fiction and nothing I've ever said. Perhaps this person was confusing me stating that Synthesis is MY canon ending (I have a few saved games, but my main Shep chose Synthesis). Anyway guys, sorry for the scare or disappointment or whatever you feel about this, but it's untrue. Lock."
 
It seems that this misunderstanding just won't die.

#385
dreamgazer

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IanPolaris wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

If you can find it, I'd like to read confirmation of synthesis being chosen.

Gamble stated on Twitter that he liked the outcome of synthesis, but not that it was what the next cycle chose.


I'll see if I can find it.  You are right that I may be conflating what Gamble said he liked with what the future cycle chose.  Nevertheless,  it's irrelevant to my larger point.  The fact that the future cycle uses the crucible at all amounts to Bioware urinating on the choice your Shepard made NOT to use it.  Just because a non-crucible win wasn't possible this cycle doesn't mean that this need be the case next cycle.

-Polaris


True, but we also have no knowledge of the circumstances, whether that Crucible could discriminate between synthetic beings in that destroy or whether they set the thing off before the Reapers had even arrived.  It only urinates on the choice to refuse if you assume the situation in the next cycle will be exactly the same as the current cycle: the same ignorant council, the same abrupt discovery of the plans, the same limited tech. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 25 juin 2013 - 03:47 .


#386
dreamgazer

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PMC65 wrote...
 
It seems that this misunderstanding just won't die.


Misunderstanding and misinterpretation on this board? Nah. Never. 

#387
KiwiQuiche

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IanPolaris wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Also, wasn't the person who made the Crucible comment just some writer, not the director or something? (anyone got a link to it?)


It was Gamble and that's about as "official" as it gets.

-Polaris


PMC65 wrote...


It was Mike Gamble (Mike Gamble: https://twitter.com/...770232138301440) ... "Some future cycle, yes. The new star-gazer scene should imply that."

EDIT: Image IPBby IanPolaris


So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.

#388
MegaSovereign

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IanPolaris wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Maybe they didn't think they did anything inherently wrong. I think they're entitled to that train of thought. However they were never condescending about it. "Clarity and Closure" were the buzzwords of the EC. Not "the ending was too complicated for you savages" or however you're trying to spin it.


Not my spin.  It was the way their PR annoucement was broadly perceived, "We are doing this because you savages don't "get" our artistic vision".

-Polaris


I never argued that you and a bunch of others did not perceive it this way. That does not mean this was the intended message.

And yes, it is your spin. Or someone's elses spin. Regardless, spins belong at an amusement park not a debate.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 25 juin 2013 - 03:48 .


#389
AlanC9

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I think Julia and Darth Brotarian have finished off this aspect of the thread. ME technology never made any sense in the first place.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 juin 2013 - 03:48 .


#390
IanPolaris

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.


Exactly which tells me that this was a "troll" ending by Bioware.

-Polaris

#391
IanPolaris

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dreamgazer wrote...

True, but we also have no knowledge of the circumstances, whether that Crucible could discriminate between synthetic beings in that destroy or whether they set the thing off before the Reapers had even arrived.  It only urinates on the choice to refuse if you assume the situation in the next cycle will be exactly the same as the current cycle: the same ignorant council, the same abrupt discovery of the plans, the same limited tech. 


It doesn't matter.  The entire point of refusing the Catalyst is not only to show that you don't trust the Reaper Intelligence, but also that eventually life will find a way to win without sacrificing it's collective soul to do so.  By telling us the next cycle used the crucible anyway, this DOES urinate on the last choice your Shepard made, and IMHO it was deliberate.

-Polaris

#392
KiwiQuiche

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IanPolaris wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.


Exactly which tells me that this was a "troll" ending by Bioware.

-Polaris


I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.

#393
AlanC9

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.


Picking Refuse has a point? A point that can be ruined by something someone else does?

#394
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

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I think some of you need to stop with the belief that Bioware is insulting or trolling you.The victim complex was funny at first, but now it's just sad.

Modifié par Morocco Mole, 25 juin 2013 - 03:55 .


#395
FlamingBoy

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IanPolaris wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

True, but we also have no knowledge of the circumstances, whether that Crucible could discriminate between synthetic beings in that destroy or whether they set the thing off before the Reapers had even arrived.  It only urinates on the choice to refuse if you assume the situation in the next cycle will be exactly the same as the current cycle: the same ignorant council, the same abrupt discovery of the plans, the same limited tech. 


It doesn't matter.  The entire point of refusing the Catalyst is not only to show that you don't trust the Reaper Intelligence, but also that eventually life will find a way to win without sacrificing it's collective soul to do so.  By telling us the next cycle used the crucible anyway, this DOES urinate on the last choice your Shepard made, and IMHO it was deliberate.

-Polaris


Deliberate or not, it did end up hurting them. Its like a never ending PR disaster.

#396
dreamgazer

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.


Exactly which tells me that this was a "troll" ending by Bioware.

-Polaris


I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.


They could have trolled refusers much harder than that, actually, by visualizing all the death and destruction of the continued cycle while not allowing Shepard the opportunity to give a solid speech. 

#397
FlamingBoy

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Morocco Mole wrote...

I think some of you need to stop with the belief that Bioware is insulting or trolling you.The victim complex was funny at first, but now it's just sad.


People really need to stop using medical definitions and terms, to assign a label with people they disagree with

Honestly its just a diservice to the people who actualy are mentally ill, and suffer with it every day.

#398
KiwiQuiche

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dreamgazer wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.


Exactly which tells me that this was a "troll" ending by Bioware.

-Polaris


I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.


They could have trolled refusers much harder than that, actually, by visualizing all the death and destruction of the continued cycle while not allowing Shepard the opportunity to give a solid speech. 


Instead we got the train-wreck current endings which aren't any better.

#399
IanPolaris

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AlanC9 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

So it basically ruins the whole point of picking Refuse in the first place. Oh well, I'll just ignore it since it's just Gamble and his twitter word isn't lore.


Picking Refuse has a point? A point that can be ruined by something someone else does?


Yes.  It's a point you may not agree with (and if you, you don't pick refuse), but the entire point of refuse was the unwillingless to accept the Catalyst's solution as the "only" solution, a refusal to "pick your war-crime", and thus a leap of faith that even if we went down swinging, we might at least give the next cycle (or cycles) a chance to defeat the Reapers the right way, without sacrificing it's collective soul on the alter of the Crucible.

That is the point that Bioware completely (and IMHO deliberately) ruined.  I consider it "trolling", i.e. "it's our way or go away".  I also think it's childish at this point.

-Polaris

#400
dreamgazer

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IanPolaris wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

True, but we also have no knowledge of the circumstances, whether that Crucible could discriminate between synthetic beings in that destroy or whether they set the thing off before the Reapers had even arrived.  It only urinates on the choice to refuse if you assume the situation in the next cycle will be exactly the same as the current cycle: the same ignorant council, the same abrupt discovery of the plans, the same limited tech. 


It doesn't matter.  The entire point of refusing the Catalyst is not only to show that you don't trust the Reaper Intelligence, but also that eventually life will find a way to win without sacrificing it's collective soul to do so.  By telling us the next cycle used the crucible anyway, this DOES urinate on the last choice your Shepard made, and IMHO it was deliberate.

-Polaris


It does matter, because you're making assumptions based on this cycle's experience with the Crucible.

Things change. The Protheans' experience was different than this one. The next cycle will be different than that.