865 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

IanPolaris wrote...

Shepard trusts Liara..at least enough to reasonably think that if the crucible doesn't work, Liara will warn the next cycle.  In fact that's exactly what she does.  The very first thing she does is WARN the next cycle NOT to build the crucible (well technically she says we built it and deployed it but it didn't work, but I'd certainly take that as a warning if I received it!)

So Shep's basically hoping that Liara makes a mistake?

(Actually, I kind of hoped that myself.... imagine if poor Liara knew that Shepard had destroyed the galaxy)

The lesson I'd take away from those events is deploy the Crucible before you lose control of the Citadel. In any event, the cost of a Crucible is far less than the cost of a military force that can defeat the Reapers.

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Incorrect. He was a powerful dreadnought, but only one. Entire Citadel fleet would crush it instantly.

That's an exaggeration. Rewatch the battle. Sovereign is dominating and shows so sign of slowing down until Saren's death. And the 'much higher casualties' thing comes from Gamble's twitter (or one of the other writers, can't remember).

Citadel fleet was spread on relays from terminus. Cruisers near the Citadel was a small part of it. It is obvious if you'd read the codex and payed attention. Citadel fleet is powerful enough to crush all Terminus in a matter of days.
And this is only one joined fleet, homeworld fleets of council races significantly larger than that.

Maxster_ wrote...
Incorrect.
Sovereign wasn't defeated instantly because he brought geth fleet with him. And, after arrival, he headed directly inside the Citadel, and closed it behind him(actually, Saren closed). And this was only possible, because Saren took C-Sec off-guard, by arriving right at Presidium tower with a strong support of geth infantry through Conduit. Without that support, Saren could not took controls of the Citadel, and thus close it, and without closing it - Sovereign would be dead fastly.

All of this shows that Sovereign needed help to prevent the Citadel from closing on it. Not that he would have been annihilated if it had engaged the fleets in combat. If the Citadel closes, Sovereign can't do anything other than pointleslly mill about destroying ships until it is eventually brought down. Sure, the Geth fleet helped to distract the Citadel fleet and allow Sovereign to reach the Citadel unimpeded, but as seen in the battle, Sovereign wouldn't have gone down without tremendous loss of life.

Pay attention. Entire point of struggling to get to the console, is to open relay network and allow closest reinforcements(Systems Alliance fleet) to strike at the Sovereign. And to do that, Citadel needed to be opened also, because it would took too long to break through wards.

Simple, first, Sovereign needed to get to a tower inside the Citadel. Second, he needed to close the Citadel after that, to not to be destroyed.

[IanPolaris]

AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Shepard trusts Liara..at least enough to reasonably think that if the crucible doesn't work, Liara will warn the next cycle.  In fact that's exactly what she does.  The very first thing she does is WARN the next cycle NOT to build the crucible (well technically she says we built it and deployed it but it didn't work, but I'd certainly take that as a warning if I received it!)

So Shep's basically hoping that Liara makes a mistake?

(Actually, I kind of hoped that myself.... imagine if poor Liara knew that Shepard had destroyed the galaxy)

The lesson I'd take away from those events is deploy the Crucible before you lose control of the Citadel. In any event, the cost of a Crucible is far less than the cost of a military force that can defeat the Reapers.

Is the cost of the crucible actually less?  What dollar value do you put on the Entire Geth race?  What dollar value do you put on an ETERNAL loss of freedom under the dictatatorship of the Sheaper?  See the point?

I think the cost of a fleet capable of defeating the reapers to be far safer and far less provided it can be built and prepared for in time (and that's supposed to be the point of the time capsules).

-Polaris

[111987]

IanPolaris wrote...

Bioware isn't even consistant about this.  In ME1 (and even into ME2), the REapers were very much able (at least in principle) to be beaten "conventionally" (as in no magic 'off' button).  That didn't really change until ME3.  Thus I dispute that this was bioware's intent.

I also would say that if you aren't going to let the player win without using the crucible, then don't offer that option.  That was entirely Bioware's choice.

Honoring decisions means honoring decisions in an RPG.  I sometimes wonder if Bioware has forgotten how to write an RPG but I digress.

To be fair, in ME1 Sovereign WAS defeated by a magic 'off' button; namely the death of Saren. The only other dead Reaper we saw was the Derelict Reaper, and thus the only one defeated conventionally. But we've already discussed that situation.

As I said, EDI stating that reaper shields are impervious to dreadnought fire on that very same level would suggest only truly massive WMD's could defeat a Reaper. And obviously using weapons that shatter planets lightyears away isn't a sustainable strategy.

Wrong.  In the Suicide Mission, you could actually do well even with a largely disloyal crew by making certain choices.   You also had a very good idea what the stakes and rules were.

None of that's true in this last scene in ME3.  If you refuse to use the crucible, then in order to HONOR that choice, the Reapers need to be defeated without the crucible (it might not be by your cycle however.....).  If your EMS isn't good enough, the you should simply get a "game over".  Not doing enough to win the game (when the game tells you what is enough) is a perfectly valid reason for a "game over" screen.

-Polaris

I know you can get around not doing the loyalty missions during the Suicide Mission, which is why I said it was a loose comparison. If you don't listen to what the game repreatedly tells you, there are consequences. If you don't do loyalty missions, upgrade your ship, etc...people WILL die.

I say in ME3 we did have a good idea what the stakes and rules were. The whole game, it's use the Crucible or die. Now, would I have preferred being able to have a conventional victory? Hell yeah, to me that is far more satisfying. But that's just not the way it was written from the start (of ME3 definitley, and arguably from the start of the series).

But I do see your point. I think Bioware could have thrown a bone to the Refuse crowd by allowing the next cycle to defeat the Reapers conventionally (i.e. like in the scenario I described earlier where they prepare for thousands of years, etc.). That certainly was the implication before Twitter.

[111987]

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Incorrect. He was a powerful dreadnought, but only one. Entire Citadel fleet would crush it instantly.

That's an exaggeration. Rewatch the battle. Sovereign is dominating and shows so sign of slowing down until Saren's death. And the 'much higher casualties' thing comes from Gamble's twitter (or one of the other writers, can't remember).

Citadel fleet was spread on relays from terminus. Cruisers near the Citadel was a small part of it. It is obvious if you'd read the codex and payed attention. Citadel fleet is powerful enough to crush all Terminus in a matter of days.
And this is only one joined fleet, homeworld fleets of council races significantly larger than that.

Trust me, I have read the Codex and payed attention.

i am aware a large part of the Citadel fleet was not present for the battle. Even still, Sovereign was dominating the ships that were there, including the Alliance Fifth Fleet. Sovereign fought over a dozen ships and defeated at least 8 before being brought down by Saren's death.

I have agreed with you that eventually, Sovereign would have been defeated. But even you cannot deny Sovereign was more than a match for the ships it was facing. The implication thus being that if there were dozens of Reapers, or hundreds, or thousands, they would be unstoppable. Think about how different things would have been if even one more Reaper had been present. You would have to divide your firepower in half to fight both at once, and yet even one Reaper was shrugging off the combined firepower without any signs of stress.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

[Deathsaurer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

It was recorded, the Sovereign one anyways, the VS mentions it during the lockdown.

[111987]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

[KiwiQuiche]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Oh yeah, I forgot about her increasing bouts of retardation during the trilogy.

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 25 juin 2013 - 05:40 .

[Deathsaurer]

LineHolder wrote...

The vulnerability of the Reapers when controlling someone should have been exploited.

That got handwaved in the codex with upgrades to fix it.

[111987]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Incorrect. He was a powerful dreadnought, but only one. Entire Citadel fleet would crush it instantly.

That's an exaggeration. Rewatch the battle. Sovereign is dominating and shows so sign of slowing down until Saren's death. And the 'much higher casualties' thing comes from Gamble's twitter (or one of the other writers, can't remember).

Citadel fleet was spread on relays from terminus. Cruisers near the Citadel was a small part of it. It is obvious if you'd read the codex and payed attention. Citadel fleet is powerful enough to crush all Terminus in a matter of days.
And this is only one joined fleet, homeworld fleets of council races significantly larger than that.

Trust me, I have read the Codex and payed attention.

i am aware a large part of the Citadel fleet was not present for the battle. Even still, Sovereign was dominating the ships that were there, including the Alliance Fifth Fleet. Sovereign fought over a dozen ships and defeated at least 8 before being brought down by Saren's death.

Good. Of course, Sovereign is more than a match to an any ship of council races or systems Alliance. It is obvious.
But space battles of MEU is a place of strategy and tactics, when battles can be won or lost in a matter of minutes, if a mistake is made, or you were overplayed by enemy commander.
Rarity of those battles is because no race can rival Council's big 3's military power, even asari's alone(not even saying about turians). They also don't like to engage in large wars that leads to a significant losses.
Still, ever defeat of one small council fleet, which is a possibility, will not lead to defeat of the Council, obviously.
Anyway, Sovereign clearly overplayed Citadel Fleet's admiral both strategically and tactically, or, most likely, admiral's plans were overriden by political leadership(their strange policy of dealing with terminus systems and all that).

I have agreed with you that eventually, Sovereign would have been defeated. But even you cannot deny Sovereign was more than a match for the ships it was facing. The implication thus being that if there were dozens of Reapers, or hundreds, or thousands, they would be unstoppable. Think about how different things would have been if even one more Reaper had been present. You would have to divide your firepower in half to fight both at once, and yet even one Reaper was shrugging off the combined firepower without any signs of stress.

Sovereign was fully aware of the Citadel Fleet's strength, and of council race's fleets. This is why he manouvered so much.
I estimated around 200 sovereign class reapers will be almost unstopable, if they act as smart as Sovereign.
Still, it only means, that reapers can be defeated conventionally, but not in Shepard's cycle. It is of course impossible to build thousands of dreadnoughts in a matter of years, economics will fail.
Anyway, such information passed to next cycle, would lead to a change of development of entire cycle, to ensure availability of sufficient economic power and shipbuilding and mantaining capacities.

Modifié par Maxster_, 25 juin 2013 - 05:57 .

[111987]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

Well, Shepard cares...saving the colonists is the whole reason he works with Cerberus in the first place.

If Shepard gets arrested for killing 300,000 Batarians out of undeniable necessity, needlessly killing at least that many humans would probably not be received well...

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...


Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

Well, Shepard cares...saving the colonists is the whole reason he works with Cerberus in the first place.

If Shepard gets arrested for killing 300,000 Batarians out of undeniable necessity, needlessly killing at least that many humans would probably not be received well...

No, it's finding a way to stop the Collectors and by extension their masters, the Reapers.

No one would know it was Shepard; everyone else involved would be dead, it's in the Terminus System (which Alliance won't help, since they do jack against the Collectors) the Normandy wouldn't be detected, and I doubt Shepard will tell the Alliance what she did.

[111987]

LineHolder wrote...

Deathsaurer wrote...

LineHolder wrote...

The vulnerability of the Reapers when controlling someone should have been exploited.

That got handwaved in the codex with upgrades to fix it.

Do you remember what section its in? 

Reaper Vulnerabilities.

"Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren. The
feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's
shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw."

[111987]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...


Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

Well, Shepard cares...saving the colonists is the whole reason he works with Cerberus in the first place.

If Shepard gets arrested for killing 300,000 Batarians out of undeniable necessity, needlessly killing at least that many humans would probably not be received well...

No, it's finding a way to stop the Collectors and by extension their masters, the Reapers.

No one would know it was Shepard; everyone else involved would be dead, it's in the Terminus System (which Alliance won't help, since they do jack against the Collectors) the Normandy wouldn't be detected, and I doubt Shepard will tell the Alliance what she did.

Lol okay. Good luck finding a functioning IFF in the ashes of the ship. Also, Shepard doesn't even know at this point that an IFF is needed.

So basically, Shepard gets to destroy one Collector Ship, kill hundreds of thousands of innocents when he still doesn't know whether or not they can be saved, and gets no closer to finding out why the Collectors are attacking or how to ultimately stop them (i.e. reach their homeworld).

In any case, I can't tell if you are trolling me or not, but I think that's all I have to say about this.

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...



Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

Well, Shepard cares...saving the colonists is the whole reason he works with Cerberus in the first place.

If Shepard gets arrested for killing 300,000 Batarians out of undeniable necessity, needlessly killing at least that many humans would probably not be received well...

No, it's finding a way to stop the Collectors and by extension their masters, the Reapers.

No one would know it was Shepard; everyone else involved would be dead, it's in the Terminus System (which Alliance won't help, since they do jack against the Collectors) the Normandy wouldn't be detected, and I doubt Shepard will tell the Alliance what she did.

Lol okay. Good luck finding a functioning IFF in the ashes of the ship. Also, Shepard doesn't even know at this point that an IFF is needed.

So basically, Shepard gets to destroy one Collector Ship, kill hundreds of thousands of innocents when he still doesn't know whether or not they can be saved, and gets no closer to finding out why the Collectors are attacking or how to ultimately stop them (i.e. reach their homeworld).

In any case, I can't tell if you are trolling me or not, but I think that's all I have to say about this.

Why would she need to cross the Omega relay if she's destroyed the Collector Ship? The IFF is pointless.

Colonists taken by the Collectors are never seen again; safe to say they all die, so might as well take out the ship.
Why does she need to know why the Collectors are attacking? Their motivation is irrelevant, they are a threat and should be killed regardless of why. Once they are destroyed, including their only method of transportation, they can focus on the Reapers again. They don't need to go to the Collector base; Reaper reproducing is stupid and doesn't give anyone any info on how to kill Reapers, so why bother finding it out.



I disagree with you so I'm a troll. Hm, okay.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 25 juin 2013 - 06:09 .

[111987]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...



Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

Well, Shepard cares...saving the colonists is the whole reason he works with Cerberus in the first place.

If Shepard gets arrested for killing 300,000 Batarians out of undeniable necessity, needlessly killing at least that many humans would probably not be received well...

No, it's finding a way to stop the Collectors and by extension their masters, the Reapers.

No one would know it was Shepard; everyone else involved would be dead, it's in the Terminus System (which Alliance won't help, since they do jack against the Collectors) the Normandy wouldn't be detected, and I doubt Shepard will tell the Alliance what she did.

Lol okay. Good luck finding a functioning IFF in the ashes of the ship. Also, Shepard doesn't even know at this point that an IFF is needed.

So basically, Shepard gets to destroy one Collector Ship, kill hundreds of thousands of innocents when he still doesn't know whether or not they can be saved, and gets no closer to finding out why the Collectors are attacking or how to ultimately stop them (i.e. reach their homeworld).

In any case, I can't tell if you are trolling me or not, but I think that's all I have to say about this.

Why would she need to cross the Omega relay if she's destroyed the Collector Ship? The IFF is pointless.

Colonists taken by the Collectors are never seen again; safe to say they all die, so might as well take out the ship.
Why does she need to know why the Collectors are attacking? Their motivation is irrelevant, they are a threat and should be killed regardless of why. Once they are destroyed, including their only method of transportation, they can focus on the Reapers again. They don't need to go to the Collector base; Reaper reproducing is stupid and doesn't give anyone any info on how to kill Reapers, so why bother finding it out.



I disagree with you so I'm a troll. Hm, okay.

I'm not saying you a troll, but in this case, I wasn't sure...

Anyways, the problem here is that you are metagaming. Shepard doesn't know how many Collector Ships there are. There could be dozens for all Shepard knows. Therefore, destroying one, when you have an opportunity to save colonists and gather information, is utterly pointless and detrimental to the end goal.

Shepard doesn't know that the colonists are all being killed. Before discovering the truth, it's just as likely that they're being used for experiments, but aren't being killed etc.