865 réponses à ce sujet

[111987]

LineHolder wrote...

111987 wrote...

LineHolder wrote...

Deathsaurer wrote...

LineHolder wrote...

The vulnerability of the Reapers when controlling someone should have been exploited.

That got handwaved in the codex with upgrades to fix it.

Do you remember what section its in? 

Reaper Vulnerabilities.

"Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren. The
feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's
shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw."

Bummer. What did they do? Rewire themselves? I'm not going to speculate if that is possible because speculation about this sort of stuff is stupid but it just confirms my view that the writers went into ME3 painting the Reapers as invincible. 

And they had to invent a magical kill-switch to design the game around instead of actually working on material from the previous two games.

Well, who knows how often Reapers assume direct control anyways. Besides Saren and the Collectors, none of the other Reaper troops are taken over. And with the Collectors, Harbinger seemingly learned the lesson because Harby controlled the Collectors through an intermediary, the Collector General. Perhaps how the Reapers got around the issue.

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

No, it's finding a way to stop the Collectors and by extension their masters, the Reapers.

No one would know it was Shepard; everyone else involved would be dead, it's in the Terminus System (which Alliance won't help, since they do jack against the Collectors) the Normandy wouldn't be detected, and I doubt Shepard will tell the Alliance what she did.

Lol okay. Good luck finding a functioning IFF in the ashes of the ship. Also, Shepard doesn't even know at this point that an IFF is needed.

So basically, Shepard gets to destroy one Collector Ship, kill hundreds of thousands of innocents when he still doesn't know whether or not they can be saved, and gets no closer to finding out why the Collectors are attacking or how to ultimately stop them (i.e. reach their homeworld).

In any case, I can't tell if you are trolling me or not, but I think that's all I have to say about this.

Why would she need to cross the Omega relay if she's destroyed the Collector Ship? The IFF is pointless.

Colonists taken by the Collectors are never seen again; safe to say they all die, so might as well take out the ship.
Why does she need to know why the Collectors are attacking? Their motivation is irrelevant, they are a threat and should be killed regardless of why. Once they are destroyed, including their only method of transportation, they can focus on the Reapers again. They don't need to go to the Collector base; Reaper reproducing is stupid and doesn't give anyone any info on how to kill Reapers, so why bother finding it out.



I disagree with you so I'm a troll. Hm, okay.

I'm not saying you a troll, but in this case, I wasn't sure...

Anyways, the problem here is that you are metagaming. Shepard doesn't know how many Collector Ships there are. There could be dozens for all Shepard knows. Therefore, destroying one, when you have an opportunity to save colonists and gather information, is utterly pointless and detrimental to the end goal.

Shepard doesn't know that the colonists are all being killed. Before discovering the truth, it's just as likely that they're being used for experiments, but aren't being killed etc.

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

[111987]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

Lol.

What would searching the wreckage accomplish? To find information you need access to computers, data files, etc. Which would be destroyed if you reduce it to rubble.

They can't just 'lie in wait'; the only reason they had any warning about Horizon was because of the Illusive Man's trap. As he said himself, that trick won't work twice, and the Collectors will be extra careful next time.

The Reapers aren't around in ME2 so not sure what your point is here? The Collectors are the only lead on the Reapers.

Mercy kill the colonists when you have not even the faintest idea what the Collectors are doing with them? Okay...

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

Lol.

What would searching the wreckage accomplish? To find information you need access to computers, data files, etc. Which would be destroyed if you reduce it to rubble.

They can't just 'lie in wait'; the only reason they had any warning about Horizon was because of the Illusive Man's trap. As he said himself, that trick won't work twice, and the Collectors will be extra careful next time.

The Reapers aren't around in ME2 so not sure what your point is here? The Collectors are the only lead on the Reapers.

Mercy kill the colonists when you have not even the faintest idea what the Collectors are doing with them? Okay...

Because they know there is a massive Reaper fleet waiting in dark spaces, who are coming towards their system to kill them all? That's my point; the Reapers are the big threat; who cares about what the Collectors are doing, they are only abducting a few hundred thousand compared to the billions the Reapers are gonna kill. The whole plot of ME2 is stupid beyond reason.

They vanish and are never seen again. Safe to assume they get killed/experiemented on. So just kill them 'cause they are dead anyway.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 25 juin 2013 - 06:27 .

[Morty Smith]

Presenting positive review scores as a counter-argument.

[111987]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

Lol.

What would searching the wreckage accomplish? To find information you need access to computers, data files, etc. Which would be destroyed if you reduce it to rubble.

They can't just 'lie in wait'; the only reason they had any warning about Horizon was because of the Illusive Man's trap. As he said himself, that trick won't work twice, and the Collectors will be extra careful next time.

The Reapers aren't around in ME2 so not sure what your point is here? The Collectors are the only lead on the Reapers.

Mercy kill the colonists when you have not even the faintest idea what the Collectors are doing with them? Okay...

Because they know there is a massive Reaper fleet waiting in dark spaces, who are coming towards their system to kill them all? That's my point; the Reapers are the big threat; who cares about what the Collectors are doing, they are only abducting a few hundred thousand compared to the billions the Reapers are gonna kill. The whole plot of ME2 is stupid beyond reason.

They vanish and are never seen again. Safe to assume they get killed/experiemented on. So just kill them 'cause they are dead anyway.

Well, Shepard can't do anything about the Reapers other than thwart whatever they are doing with the Collectors (and later, with the events of Arrival). Shepard can't convince the council and is affiliated with a human terrorist group. What's he supposed to do, put on the ol' hardhat and start making dreadnoughts?

Hundreds of thousands of human lives may not mean much to you, but to most people, well, they would care. It's fine if you don't (I guess), but even beyond that, it's not intelligent to destroy the Collector Ship on Horizon for the reasons I've discussed in depth.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...



Shepard doesn't know that at the time. At the time, we don't know the humans are being killed. I mean, they're being taken alive for a reason.

Shepard also doesn't know if that is the only Collector Ship.

Destroying the ship could also have collateral damage, killing the colonists that weren't even captured.

Shepard would be a monster if he destroyed the Collector Ship there.

Lolno the Collectors are the threat and no one cares about these colonists anyway, so Shepard wouldn't be put on trial. Collectors abduct thousands of colonists so might as well stop the Collectors and put an end to it.

Well, Shepard cares...saving the colonists is the whole reason he works with Cerberus in the first place.

If Shepard gets arrested for killing 300,000 Batarians out of undeniable necessity, needlessly killing at least that many humans would probably not be received well...

No, it's finding a way to stop the Collectors and by extension their masters, the Reapers.

No one would know it was Shepard; everyone else involved would be dead, it's in the Terminus System (which Alliance won't help, since they do jack against the Collectors) the Normandy wouldn't be detected, and I doubt Shepard will tell the Alliance what she did.

Lol okay. Good luck finding a functioning IFF in the ashes of the ship. Also, Shepard doesn't even know at this point that an IFF is needed.

So basically, Shepard gets to destroy one Collector Ship, kill hundreds of thousands of innocents when he still doesn't know whether or not they can be saved, and gets no closer to finding out why the Collectors are attacking or how to ultimately stop them (i.e. reach their homeworld).

In any case, I can't tell if you are trolling me or not, but I think that's all I have to say about this.

Why would she need to cross the Omega relay if she's destroyed the Collector Ship? The IFF is pointless.

Colonists taken by the Collectors are never seen again; safe to say they all die, so might as well take out the ship.
Why does she need to know why the Collectors are attacking? Their motivation is irrelevant, they are a threat and should be killed regardless of why. Once they are destroyed, including their only method of transportation, they can focus on the Reapers again. They don't need to go to the Collector base; Reaper reproducing is stupid and doesn't give anyone any info on how to kill Reapers, so why bother finding it out.



I disagree with you so I'm a troll. Hm, okay.

I'm not saying you a troll, but in this case, I wasn't sure...

Anyways, the problem here is that you are metagaming. Shepard doesn't know how many Collector Ships there are. There could be dozens for all Shepard knows. Therefore, destroying one, when you have an opportunity to save colonists and gather information, is utterly pointless and detrimental to the end goal.

Shepard doesn't know that the colonists are all being killed. Before discovering the truth, it's just as likely that they're being used for experiments, but aren't being killed etc.

It's simple. If there's another human colony being hit by a collector ship, you take out that ship, too. If the colonists are never seen again, what makes you think they're being used for experiments??  They're being harvested for something. If the harvesting stops after taking out the ship you know they only had one ship. You stopped them. It is obvious there will be a debris field. Your crew will sift through the debris field and take whatever tech they can find. They'll find the pods on the ground. They'll find the colonists in stasis. Some of them will be in the pods. Some of them won't be in the pods. Some will be dead. Some won't be dead. Maybe Ashley will be dead. Maybe she won't. If she's dead it saves trouble.

But you take the tech. You comb every square inch of the debris field. You'll find an IFF in the field. You may not know it initially, but your crew will eventually identify it. Do you need to know exactly where the collector base is? No. You got your way through the Omega 4 relay if you want to go through it. And who knows what welcoming committee awaits? You didn't know before either. So build your team and go if TIM wants you to do that. You finish in 1/2 the time and can focus on the real enemy.... The Reapers.

This is not metagaming. This is logic. I had the Thanix, Hull armor, installed. I had Zaeed's and Kasumi's loyalty done. I had recruited Garrus, Jack, Mordin, Grunt. The ship was a sitting duck while it was landed. Why the hell am I investigating the colony when I could have blown up the ship? Who cares if there are more ships? They have one less now.

Worrying about the colonists who were taken is weak. The Collectors abducted half of the colony and in rides Shepard with her brand new ship equipped with reaper based thanix weapons and blows up the Collector vessel killing everyone on board in one gigantic explosion. I like that part. It has weight.

You're playing like a paragon pansy.

[Bourne Endeavor]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I dunno why Shepard couldn't have comm'd Hackett and said "Hey the Citadel is the Reaper God, nuke it" or something.

That would have required that Shepard do something intelligent at a critical moment of the story. Remember, Shepard has blown it every single time at critical moments:

ME1: forgetting to video record the Vigil and Sovereign conversations; and let's throw in the Rachni Queen as well.

ME2: not asking Anderson about that video record when the Council does the "Ah yes 'reapers'." thus making it ME2: Working For The Illusive Man. Not blowing up the Collector vessel on Horizon; sifting through the debris, finding the Collectors IFF, building the team and hitting the base.

ME3: 1) Not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 2) Thane not shooting Kai Leng the first time. 3) Not shooting Kai Leng point blank range on Thessia, but talking to TIM instead.
 
You expect Shepard to make an intelligent decision like this and render the reaper force dumber than varren so the Allied forces could turn them to scrap metal?

Wait, you realize blowing up the Collector ship would have killed hundreds of thousands of colonists right?

They all die anyway, might as well take out the Collectors right then and there so they don't start more crap down the line.

We do not know enough to conclude that is their only vessel and if destroying it would be of any benefit. I believe the logic was TIM was tracking them and destroying the ship meant we are left waiting to see how they respond. It's... sketchy and ME2 never even attempts to explain it, which would have been painfully easy. Granted, the thing be able to land on a planet to begin with was ridiculous.

Hilariously though, Shepard actually does record the conversation with Sovereign; Ashley says as much and recommends shows it to the council. Shepard never does. Probably the most egregious example of character idiocy comes from Harbinger, who had the Normandy crippled after the incompetent decision to upload a Reaper virus into the ship and abandon it for no viable reason. He opts to abduct the crew instead blowing the Normandy to smithereens; destroying the IFF, EDI, the Normandy and rendering Shepard stranded.

Ah, ME2's plot was fun.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 25 juin 2013 - 07:18 .

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

Lol.

What would searching the wreckage accomplish? To find information you need access to computers, data files, etc. Which would be destroyed if you reduce it to rubble.

They can't just 'lie in wait'; the only reason they had any warning about Horizon was because of the Illusive Man's trap. As he said himself, that trick won't work twice, and the Collectors will be extra careful next time.

The Reapers aren't around in ME2 so not sure what your point is here? The Collectors are the only lead on the Reapers.

Mercy kill the colonists when you have not even the faintest idea what the Collectors are doing with them? Okay...

Because they know there is a massive Reaper fleet waiting in dark spaces, who are coming towards their system to kill them all? That's my point; the Reapers are the big threat; who cares about what the Collectors are doing, they are only abducting a few hundred thousand compared to the billions the Reapers are gonna kill. The whole plot of ME2 is stupid beyond reason.

They vanish and are never seen again. Safe to assume they get killed/experiemented on. So just kill them 'cause they are dead anyway.

Well, Shepard can't do anything about the Reapers other than thwart whatever they are doing with the Collectors (and later, with the events of Arrival). Shepard can't convince the council and is affiliated with a human terrorist group. What's he supposed to do, put on the ol' hardhat and start making dreadnoughts?

Hundreds of thousands of human lives may not mean much to you, but to most people, well, they would care. It's fine if you don't (I guess), but even beyond that, it's not intelligent to destroy the Collector Ship on Horizon for the reasons I've discussed in depth.

Does not change the fact that collectors plot was utterly stupid and unrelated to reapers threat. They could never create reaper from humans, because human colonies have no population for that. Human colonies have population of several millions.
And weak lone collector cruiser, which is easily defeated by a frigate, is of course no match for even frigate pack, not saying about arcturus defense fleets. Meaning it could never get close to Earth.
And this means that Harbringer's motivations were also idiotic.

[IanPolaris]

This is a good point. By the time you are doing the horizon mission, you should have the silaris armor and thanix cannon installed, and that means you should be able to take out the Collector Ship esp when it's it's a (lirerally) sitting duck.

Colony saved and you have your Cerberus recovery crews comb the debris field for tech before the Alliance can muscle in (and I am sure TIM would send some more if you don't have enough).

-Polaris

[111987]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It's simple. If there's another human colony being hit by a collector ship, you take out that ship, too. If the colonists are never seen again, what makes you think they're being used for experiments??  They're being harvested for something. If the harvesting stops after taking out the ship you know they only had one ship. You stopped them. It is obvious there will be a debris field. Your crew will sift through the debris field and take whatever tech they can find. They'll find the pods on the ground. They'll find the colonists in stasis. Some of them will be in the pods. Some of them won't be in the pods. Some will be dead. Some won't be dead. Maybe Ashley will be dead. Maybe she won't. If she's dead it saves trouble.

But you don't know what colony is going to be targetted. It was only the Illusive Man's information leak that allowed Shepard to arrive at Horizon on time. And that's a trick that will only work once; from here on out, stopping the Collector's from abducting colonies will boil down to sheer dumb luck. Which nobody should be relying on as their primary option.

But you take the tech. You comb every square inch of the debris field. You'll find an IFF in the field. You may not know it initially, but your crew will eventually identify it. Do you need to know exactly where the collector base is? No. You got your way through the Omega 4 relay if you want to go through it. And who knows what welcoming committee awaits? You didn't know before either. So build your team and go if TIM wants you to do that. You finish in 1/2 the time and can focus on the real enemy.... The Reapers.

The IFF is just a signal; without a computer, or a power source, it's nothing. And since you reduced the ship to rubble, your chances of finding it are remote, if impossible. You're making a lot of assumptions here. Especially considering that if you don't recover the IFF, you've lost your only potential lead.

[111987]

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

Lol.

What would searching the wreckage accomplish? To find information you need access to computers, data files, etc. Which would be destroyed if you reduce it to rubble.

They can't just 'lie in wait'; the only reason they had any warning about Horizon was because of the Illusive Man's trap. As he said himself, that trick won't work twice, and the Collectors will be extra careful next time.

The Reapers aren't around in ME2 so not sure what your point is here? The Collectors are the only lead on the Reapers.

Mercy kill the colonists when you have not even the faintest idea what the Collectors are doing with them? Okay...

Because they know there is a massive Reaper fleet waiting in dark spaces, who are coming towards their system to kill them all? That's my point; the Reapers are the big threat; who cares about what the Collectors are doing, they are only abducting a few hundred thousand compared to the billions the Reapers are gonna kill. The whole plot of ME2 is stupid beyond reason.

They vanish and are never seen again. Safe to assume they get killed/experiemented on. So just kill them 'cause they are dead anyway.

Well, Shepard can't do anything about the Reapers other than thwart whatever they are doing with the Collectors (and later, with the events of Arrival). Shepard can't convince the council and is affiliated with a human terrorist group. What's he supposed to do, put on the ol' hardhat and start making dreadnoughts?

Hundreds of thousands of human lives may not mean much to you, but to most people, well, they would care. It's fine if you don't (I guess), but even beyond that, it's not intelligent to destroy the Collector Ship on Horizon for the reasons I've discussed in depth.

Does not change the fact that collectors plot was utterly stupid and unrelated to reapers threat. They could never create reaper from humans, because human colonies have no population for that. Human colonies have population of several millions.
And weak lone collector cruiser, which is easily defeated by a frigate, is of course no match for even frigate pack, not saying about arcturus defense fleets. Meaning it could never get close to Earth.
And this means that Harbringer's motivations were also idiotic.

The Collectors were very related to the Reaper threat. They were after all, literally building another Reaper.

Who says the Collectors were going to target Earth? Some random squadmate who is just making a wild guess?

The Collectors were getting a head start on the harvesting, and likely also testing to see if humans were viable for Reaperfication. After all, not every species is; just look at the Protheans. The Collectors confirming the Human Reaper would be a success saves the Reapers a lot of time and energy. For example, if it was found that humans were not viable candidates, the Reapers wouldn't have to waste time on harvesting us; they could just kill humanity.

Modifié par 111987, 25 juin 2013 - 07:45 .

[IanPolaris]

All this does raise a related question. Once you get to the clearing and once it's clear you have all the information you're going to get, why the heck are you trying to shoot those guardian missiles at it?

HELLO! You have a SOTA Frigate (the Normandy SR-2) in orbit with a full set of Thanix guns and Silaris armor, and we know that Normandy can make combat passes in deep Atmo (because she does at many points during the game).

Instead of waiting five minutes for the Guardian Lasers to power up, why doesn't Normandy swoop down and take a couple of shots with the Thanix Guns?

I can pretty much guarantee (even if Shep orders Edi to let the ship go), that the Collector Ship will leave pronto.

-Polaris

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I suppose there is quite a  few around here.

No it isn't; They could just search the wreck after they blast it, since there is still quite a bit left even once you kill it crossing pass the Omega Relay. Then they could just lie in wait until the next abduction if there is more than once, since they have the guns to kill Collector vessals outright.

But them concentrating on Collectors are stupid anyway while Reapers are around.

Mercy kill them, then. Especially if Collectors are Reaper pawns, and the crew know how their captives get turned into monsters. Stop that happening from the Colonists.

Lol.

What would searching the wreckage accomplish? To find information you need access to computers, data files, etc. Which would be destroyed if you reduce it to rubble.

They can't just 'lie in wait'; the only reason they had any warning about Horizon was because of the Illusive Man's trap. As he said himself, that trick won't work twice, and the Collectors will be extra careful next time.

The Reapers aren't around in ME2 so not sure what your point is here? The Collectors are the only lead on the Reapers.

Mercy kill the colonists when you have not even the faintest idea what the Collectors are doing with them? Okay...

Because they know there is a massive Reaper fleet waiting in dark spaces, who are coming towards their system to kill them all? That's my point; the Reapers are the big threat; who cares about what the Collectors are doing, they are only abducting a few hundred thousand compared to the billions the Reapers are gonna kill. The whole plot of ME2 is stupid beyond reason.

They vanish and are never seen again. Safe to assume they get killed/experiemented on. So just kill them 'cause they are dead anyway.

Well, Shepard can't do anything about the Reapers other than thwart whatever they are doing with the Collectors (and later, with the events of Arrival). Shepard can't convince the council and is affiliated with a human terrorist group. What's he supposed to do, put on the ol' hardhat and start making dreadnoughts?

Hundreds of thousands of human lives may not mean much to you, but to most people, well, they would care. It's fine if you don't (I guess), but even beyond that, it's not intelligent to destroy the Collector Ship on Horizon for the reasons I've discussed in depth.

Does not change the fact that collectors plot was utterly stupid and unrelated to reapers threat. They could never create reaper from humans, because human colonies have no population for that. Human colonies have population of several millions.
And weak lone collector cruiser, which is easily defeated by a frigate, is of course no match for even frigate pack, not saying about arcturus defense fleets. Meaning it could never get close to Earth.
And this means that Harbringer's motivations were also idiotic.

The Collectors were very related to the Reaper threat. They were after all, literally building another Reaper.

Which they could not create at all.
Meaning they were not helping reapers, who were trapped in dark space.
Therefore, their actual threat equals zero.

Who says the Collectors were going to target Earth? Some random squadmate who is just making a wild guess?

Otherwise they can't finish said reaper.
And if they were not going to finish that reaper at all - there was no reason to attack colonies. This only blows their cover and attracts Systems Alliance's response.
Unless they were doing it just for fun.

The Collectors were getting a head start on the harvesting, and likely also testing to see if humans were viable for Reaperfication. After all, not every species is; just look at the Protheans. The Collectors confirming the Human Reaper would be a success saves the Reapers a lot of time and energy. For example, if it was found that humans were not viable candidates, the Reapers wouldn't have to waste time on harvesting us; they could just kill humanity.

Then there is no reason to attack more than one colony, and building actual reaper.
Actually, one human is enough to check.

Modifié par Maxster_, 25 juin 2013 - 08:10 .

[Seboist]

Not sure which is more idiotic, the Collectors' plan or Shepard's of gathering squadmate pokemon for no compelling reason(other than TIM said so) for a battle scenario they haven't the slightest idea about. Much like the whole "gather allies for Earth" plot of ME3 the only way the latter makes the slightest bit of sense is if Shepard had a crystal ball.

Modifié par Seboist, 25 juin 2013 - 08:17 .

[111987]

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

Which they could not create at all.
Meaning they were not helping reapers, who were trapped in dark space.
Therefore, their actual threat equals zero.
[/quote]

I'm sure the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of humans abducted would disagree that the Collectors were not a threat.

Since you are so concerned with the Reapers though, then in the larger picture, the Collectors have potentially deprived the Alliance thousands of potential soldiers to fight the Reapers when they do arrive.

[quote]
Who says the Collectors were going to target Earth? Some random squadmate who is just making a wild guess?
[/quote]
Otherwise they can't finish said reaper.
And if they were not going to finish that reaper at all - there was no reason to attack colonies. This only blows their cover and attracts Systems Alliance's response.
Unless they were doing it just for fun.
[/quote]

As seen in the game, the Systems Alliance did not respond. Everyone knows the Alliance doesn't get involved in the Terminus. There was therefore no threat to them other than Cerberus and Shepard, which they couldn't have preasonably predicted.

[quote]
Then there is no reason to attack more than one colony, and building actual reaper.
Actually, one human is enough to check.

[/quote]

Are you an expert on Reaper construction? How do you know this?

[Maxster_]

Seboist wrote...

Not sure which is more idiotic, the Collectors' plan or Shepard's of gathering squadmate pokemon for no compelling reason(other than TIM said so) for a battle scenario they haven't the slightest idea about. Much like the whole "gather allies for Earth" plot of ME3 the only way the latter makes the slightest bit of sense is if Shepard had a crystal ball.

Well, he had

Modifié par Maxster_, 25 juin 2013 - 08:24 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

 i don't know,i didn't care really.I finished the game,i didn't like ending but i just played another game.I like EC tho

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Which they could not create at all.
Meaning they were not helping reapers, who were trapped in dark space.
Therefore, their actual threat equals zero.

I'm sure the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of humans abducted would disagree that the Collectors were not a threat.

Since you are so concerned with the Reapers though, then in the larger picture, the Collectors have potentially deprived the Alliance thousands of potential soldiers to fight the Reapers when they do arrive.

1. There is no need for Shepard at all.
2. It is irrelevant, because it doesn't threat Systems Alliance's idustrial, economical and military potential at all.
3. Other races, with stronger military, namely asari, salarians, turians, geth, quarians - were completely unaffected. Yes, yes, "humans are special".

Who says the Collectors were going to target Earth? Some random squadmate who is just making a wild guess?

Otherwise they can't finish said reaper.
And if they were not going to finish that reaper at all - there was no reason to attack colonies. This only blows their cover and attracts Systems Alliance's response.
Unless they were doing it just for fun.

As seen in the game, the Systems Alliance did not respond. Everyone knows the Alliance doesn't get involved in the Terminus. There was therefore no threat to them other than Cerberus and Shepard, which they couldn't have preasonably predicted.

Major colonies like Terra Nova is not in terminus systems, and is protected by Alliance's fleets.
In Terminus systems there only colonies who refuses SA protection.

Then there is no reason to attack more than one colony, and building actual reaper.
Actually, one human is enough to check.

Are you an expert on Reaper construction? How do you know this?

Yes, i am. Studied in reapers university in dark space.
What i meant, that there is no need to start building a reaper, if all you need is to check the possibility.
Even Harbringer says that humans passed that test.
And this means, that Shepard did nothing to stop reapers in ME2. Zero, null. Tests already passed, even before the operation, and even if it wasn't the case - stopping those test would not affect reapers invasion in any way.
Meaning that ME2 is a side story with a nonsensical premise. Just like Citadel DLC.

Modifié par Maxster_, 25 juin 2013 - 08:37 .

[111987]

Maxster_ wrote...

1. There is no need for Shepard at all.
2. It is irrelevant, because it doesn't threat Systems Alliance's idustrial, economical and military potential at all.
3. Other races, with stronger military, namely asari, salarians, turians, geth, quarians - were completely unaffected. Yes, yes, "humans are special".

1. What are you referring to here?
2. It could hurt the Systems Alliance military potential by depriving them of thousands of potential soldiers, technicians, doctors, etc. I'd assume those colonists would join the cause once the Reapers threatened all of humanity. The colonists are anti-Alliance, not anti-Human after all.
3. What?

I guess humans are special in Mass Effect. The other races must have even less genetic diversity than we do. I guess that explains why they all look the same, just with different colors

Major colonies like Terra Nova is not in terminus systems, and is protected by Alliance's fleets.
In Terminus systems there only colonies who refuses SA protection.

Yes, so what? There are still millions of humans at risk. Enough for the Collectors to make a lot of progress on the Human Reaper.

Yes, i am. Studied in reapers university in dark space.
What i meant, that there is no need to start building a reaper, if all you need is to check the possibility.
Even Harbringer says that humans passed that test.
And this means, that Shepard did nothing to stop reapers in ME2. Zero, null. Tests already passed, even before the operation, and even if it wasn't the case - stopping those test would not affect reapers invasion in any way.
Meaning that ME2 is a side story with a nonsensical premise. Just like Citadel DLC.

Lol.

Even if it took one human to pass, why not just start building it? I mean, what else are the Collectors going to do, sit on their butts for a few years until the Reapers arrive? That's not very efficient.

You are right, stopping the Collectors did not stop the Reapers. But it saved hundreds of thousands from being abducted, forced the Reapers to start from scratch on the Human Reaper and thus buying Shepard time to unite the galaxy while the Reapers harvest back on Earth.

No idea why you brought up the Citadel DLC. Not even going to go there.

[o Ventus]

IanPolaris wrote...

This is a good point. By the time you are doing the horizon mission, you should have the silaris armor and thanix cannon installed, and that means you should be able to take out the Collector Ship esp when it's it's a (lirerally) sitting duck.

Colony saved and you have your Cerberus recovery crews comb the debris field for tech before the Alliance can muscle in (and I am sure TIM would send some more if you don't have enough).

-Polaris

1. You'll have killed every civilian they abducted.

2. Doesn't the respective loyalty mission need to be completed before the "major" Normandy upgrades can be bought?

[111987]

o Ventus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

This is a good point. By the time you are doing the horizon mission, you should have the silaris armor and thanix cannon installed, and that means you should be able to take out the Collector Ship esp when it's it's a (lirerally) sitting duck.

Colony saved and you have your Cerberus recovery crews comb the debris field for tech before the Alliance can muscle in (and I am sure TIM would send some more if you don't have enough).

-Polaris

1. You'll have killed every civilian they abducted.

2. Doesn't the respective loyalty mission need to be completed before the "major" Normandy upgrades can be bought?

1. That doesn't matter to some around here...that doesn't include me though.

2. Nope, as soon as you acquire a squadmate you can get their Normandy upgrades. Loyalty mission unlocks their bonus power and alternate outfit.

[Maxster_]

[quote]111987 wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

1. There is no need for Shepard at all.
2. It is irrelevant, because it doesn't threat Systems Alliance's idustrial, economical and military potential at all.
3. Other races, with stronger military, namely asari, salarians, turians, geth, quarians - were completely unaffected. Yes, yes, "humans are special". [/quote]

1. What are you referring to here?
[/quote]
To a nonsensical premise of reviving Shepard, wasting money which could used to build a small fleet of frigates to do the same and more.
[quote]
2. It could hurt the Systems Alliance military potential by depriving them of thousands of potential soldiers, technicians, doctors, etc. I'd assume those colonists would join the cause once the Reapers threatened all of humanity. The colonists are anti-Alliance, not anti-Human after all.
[/quote]
It is completely insignificant. They have no economic and industrial potential, and their population is like 0.001%(1/10000) of human population.
[quote]
3. What?
[/quote]
Majority of galaxy's military, economical and industrial potential wasn't touched at all.
[quote]
I guess humans are special in Mass Effect. The other races must have even less genetic diversity than we do. I guess that explains why they all look the same, just with different colors
[/quote]
Nonsense
Also, contradicts sum of humanity's knowledge.
[quote]
[quote]
Major colonies like Terra Nova is not in terminus systems, and is protected by Alliance's fleets.
In Terminus systems there only colonies who refuses SA protection.
[/quote]

Yes, so what? There are still millions of humans at risk. Enough for the Collectors to make a lot of progress on the Human Reaper.
[/quote]
As i said, saving a extremely minor part of population is completely unrelated to a reapers threat.
[quote]
[quote]
Yes, i am. Studied in reapers university in dark space.
What i meant, that there is no need to start building a reaper, if all you need is to check the possibility.
Even Harbringer says that humans passed that test.
And this means, that Shepard did nothing to stop reapers in ME2. Zero, null. Tests already passed, even before the operation, and even if it wasn't the case - stopping those test would not affect reapers invasion in any way.
Meaning that ME2 is a side story with a nonsensical premise. Just like Citadel DLC.
[/quote]

Lol.

Even if it took one human to pass, why not just start building it? I mean, what else are the Collectors going to do, sit on their butts for a few years until the Reapers arrive? That's not very efficient.
[/quote]
Why to start build it if there is no chance it will ever be finished, - and reapers still being trapped in dark space, meaning Harbringer wasn't going to do something about it, he was just having fun.
This nonsense also raises a question - where those collectors were, when Sovereign was scheming to took the Citadel? Why they were not helping?
[quote]
You are right, stopping the Collectors did not stop the Reapers. But it saved hundreds of thousands from being abducted, forced the Reapers to start from scratch on the Human Reaper and thus buying Shepard time to unite the galaxy while the Reapers harvest back on Earth.
[/quote]
All i said, that ME2 is a nonsensical sidestory, with nonsensical premise, which is completely unrelated to reapers plot.
Basically, a bad filler.
[quote]
No idea why you brought up the Citadel DLC. Not even going to go there.

[/quote]
And the Citadel DLC is the same as ME2. Tons of fluff, no substance, no connection to a story.

[111987]

Maxster you are trying to drag me into so many different debates! From Shepard's revival to the Citadel DLC...I'm going to stick just with what we were already talking about

Anyways, your argument is boiling down to this; a couple million humans just don't matter. I'm sorry to say that I completely disagree with this.

Why does that fact that humans are more genetically diverse than the other species ignore the sum of human knowledge? Human knowledge does not include data on the genetic diversity of Salarians or Asari.

The Collectors weren't going to finish the Human Reaper, but why not work on it? As soon as the Reapers arrive, they can start sending processors from Earth through the Omega 4 Relay, and use their giant Reaper-making factory to enormously speed up the time it takes to create the Human Reaper.

That time Shepard bought was all the difference because it gave him time to unite the galaxy, and the galaxy time to build the Crucible. Otherwise, as soon as the Reapers were done harvesting on Earth, they could just kill the rest of the humans and start attacking the other planets in force. There were hundreds of Reapers on Earth. Imagine how much faster the galaxy would fall if those Reapers could reinforce their kin on Tuchanka, Thessia, Palaven, etc...