865 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I just want to point out, 111987, that Arrival is basically useless since nobody does anything with the extra time, making that 300,000 lives sacrifice moot.

If the Alpha Relay wasn't destroyed, then the Reapers would have been able to use it to jump straight to the Citadel.

So basically, it would have been been as if they had just flooded through the Citadel Relay. It would be basically the same thing.

It also gave Liara enough time to discover the Crucible plans.

That wasn't my point; my point was, everyone did nothing whatsoever with the additional time. Shepard was retarded enough to let herself get jailed and sat on her ass like everyone else for six months. That is my issue.

All the ME2 guys were doing stuff. Jacob was helping people get out of Cerberus. Garrus was convincing the Turians to believe in the Reaper threat. Mordin was working on the genophage cure. Liara was uncovering the plans for the Crucible, etc...

Then we have Shepard. The protagonist. The hero. Who sits on her ass until the Reapers show up.

[crimzontearz]

When I was told that ultimately it was all up to me and a Bioware employee said, in an interview, that they juat stopped listening to the forums at all besides positive threads


Or maybe when I was told about secret spreadsheets

[Maxster_]

[quote]111987 wrote...
Not at all. There is plenty wrong with the series, but I disagree with many of the common complaints of the game.
[/quote]
Your disagreement have no base, as it shown in this discussion. On the ME2's part, of course
[quote]

Glad to know you don't think 2-3 million human lives don't matter. Nothing more to say on this point if this is your stance.
[/quote]
I'm tired of your demagogy.
My point was that losing 2-3 millions of humans doesn't change anything in military, industrial and economical potential of the galaxy.
Therefore, it is irrelevant for reapers.
Change that with sudden batarian attack, like attempt of asteroid strike at Terra Nova - it will have the same relation with a plot of stopping reapers. Zero.
[quote]
[quote]
Lolwhat?
Post before you were saying that Collectors sped up reaper creation process, and now you saying they haven't started that creation before citadel's arrival.
Riiight.
I suppose you know, that omega relay is on the other side of the galaxy, don't you?

It seems to me, that now you are making up "points".
[/quote]

I had already brought up the Collector Base earlier, but you had ignored it. So I brought it back.

Anyways, Relays mean that traveling to the Omega 4 Relay, especially for a Reaper, wouldn't take that long. Regardless, it is still faster than waiting around doing nothing.

The Collectors did speed up the process, but their progress was erased thanks to Shepard.
[/quote]
Doesn't matter at all.
1. Collectors had like 1/10000 of materials needed to create a reaper. Therefore, they could only "sped up" that process in 1/10000. Therefore, there is no reason for them to act.
2. There is completely no need to sped up reaper creation process. There are several thousands of sovereign class reapers, and planet won't go anywhere.
3. Transporting material in processors across the whole galaxy, is insignificant. Sure, that is a great speeding up - instead of immediately taking the Citadel, we will transfer materials across the galaxy, through multiple primary and secondary relay.
Logic? Common sense? Obviously you've never heard about such concepts.
[quote][quote]
[quote]

No more special than the dozens of other races that have been made into Capital Ships.[/quote]
You said that there is nothing special in human reaper, compared to other several thousands of sovereign class reapers.
Therefore, there is completely no reason to "sped up" construction process.
Therefore, there is no need for Collectors to act.
Therefore, ME2's premise and story is nonsense.
[/quote]

You are making such strange leaps in logic.

Humans are special in this cycle because of our genetic diversity. But in other cycles, there were also special races chosen to be Sovereign class Reapers. One is chosen per cycle. This doesn't speak anything towards their absolute 'specialness'; just their relative 'specialness' compared to their 'competitors' in this cycle.
[/quote]
*Sigh*
I'll try again.

There. is. no. need. to. speed. up. reaper. creation. process.
Not. a. single. one.
Because. "human". reaper. is. just. one. of. several. thousands. of. already. existing. reapers.
It. is. no. different. from. them., its. creation. will. not. add. anything.
there. is. no. need. to. create. it. before. taking. the. citadel. and. shutting. down. relay. network.
Not. taking. down. relay. network. will. lead. to. unnecessary. losses.

Do. you. understand. what. i. am. writing.?
[quote]
[quote]

Well, there also is completely no need for them to stop on Earth and in batarian space - just head straight to the Citadel, take it, and shut down the relay network - and all is over. [/quote]

Well presumably, having foreknowledge would allow Citadel Control to close itself in case of attack. They would then be impervious to attack. Of course, the Reapers take the Citadel at the end of the game anyways...which doesn't make sense.

See, I can point out things that are wrong as well.
[/quote]
Exactly.
ME2 did absolutely nothing to deal with reapers threat. Only reason why reapers didn't took Citadel right after they've arrived in full strength(which also nullifies ME1 story) - because they were dumbed down to a level of a brick.
[quote]
[quote]

So yes, Shepard hasn't slowed down reapers one bit in ME2. As is collectors actions in ME2 makes no sense, and doesn't help reapers who trapped in dark space. They can't finish reaper, they can't take Citadel and activate the relay in dark space.
Shepard stopping them from their meaningless activity, achieved absolutely nothing in stopping reapers threat. There also completely no reason to waste so much resources on Shepard, several standart frigates under Cerberus flag will do far more.

Therefore, ME2 is just a badly written filler, completely unrelated to a plot of stopping reapers.

[/quote]

Nope.
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]
Shepard has slowed them down by destroying the progress they did make, destroying the Collector Base (Reaper factory), and then later in Arrival. So ME2 clearly wasn't pointless. Without these things, the galaxy would not have had enough time to find the Crucible plans and then finish it in time before humanity was destroyed, if not for ME2.
[/quote]
No.
Shepard hasn't slowed them down at all.
Only reason why reapers haven't took Citadel right from the start - because they were dumbed down.
There is nothing that can stop them from doing that. And they did exactly that at the end of ME3.
Their sudden retardation only led them to suffer unnecessary losses.
You are basically saying, that reapers, to sped up construction of one sovereign class reaper, executed a strategy that lead to them losing a few dozens of sovereign class reapers.
This is utterly stupid.
[quote]
Shepard is the only person who could have united the galaxy for several reasons, such as his fame and accomplishments giving him authority and respect, the resources of a Spectre, and the relations he built throughout the series.
[/quote]
Nonsense. And completely unrelated to a topic.
[quote]
Just look at Rannoch. You take Tali or Legion out of the equation, and it just doesn't work. Shepard's relations with those characters is the only way to save both of them.
[/quote]
Rannoch arc is a character assassination exersize.
[quote]
A bunch of Cerberus frigates would have been useless in the long run, and the galaxy would be doomed.
[/quote]
So, TIM had a crystal ball. I knew it!

Modifié par Maxster_, 25 juin 2013 - 12:40 .

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I just want to point out, 111987, that Arrival is basically useless since nobody does anything with the extra time, making that 300,000 lives sacrifice moot.

If the Alpha Relay wasn't destroyed, then the Reapers would have been able to use it to jump straight to the Citadel.

So basically, it would have been been as if they had just flooded through the Citadel Relay. It would be basically the same thing.

It also gave Liara enough time to discover the Crucible plans.

Sure.
And now they have several primary relays to jump through.
Completely ruined their strategy.

Actually, the only point of arrival is to delay reapers from accessing relay network. And that time was completely wasted for no reason.

[Maxster_]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I just want to point out, 111987, that Arrival is basically useless since nobody does anything with the extra time, making that 300,000 lives sacrifice moot.

If the Alpha Relay wasn't destroyed, then the Reapers would have been able to use it to jump straight to the Citadel.

So basically, it would have been been as if they had just flooded through the Citadel Relay. It would be basically the same thing.

It also gave Liara enough time to discover the Crucible plans.

That wasn't my point; my point was, everyone did nothing whatsoever with the additional time. Shepard was retarded enough to let herself get jailed and sat on her ass like everyone else for six months. That is my issue.

All the ME2 guys were doing stuff. Jacob was helping people get out of Cerberus. Garrus was convincing the Turians to believe in the Reaper threat. Mordin was working on the genophage cure. Liara was uncovering the plans for the Crucible, etc...

Then we have Shepard. The protagonist. The hero. Who sits on her ass until the Reapers show up.

It was a part of the strategy of uniting races by yelling on their leaders.
Also, sitting in jail dumbed down reapers. Don't ask how.

[Kel Riever]

Bah, Shepard between ME2 and 3 is HARDLY even in the list of top 10 things that were wrong with the plot of ME3

[IanPolaris]

111987 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

This is a good point. By the time you are doing the horizon mission, you should have the silaris armor and thanix cannon installed, and that means you should be able to take out the Collector Ship esp when it's it's a (lirerally) sitting duck.

Colony saved and you have your Cerberus recovery crews comb the debris field for tech before the Alliance can muscle in (and I am sure TIM would send some more if you don't have enough).

-Polaris

1. You'll have killed every civilian they abducted.

2. Doesn't the respective loyalty mission need to be completed before the "major" Normandy upgrades can be bought?

1. That doesn't matter to some around here...that doesn't include me though.

2. Nope, as soon as you acquire a squadmate you can get their Normandy upgrades. Loyalty mission unlocks their bonus power and alternate outfit.

This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  If you want to make the Collectors leave, then have Normandy do a couple of near orbital strikes with it's Thanix cannon.  That'd make the Collecter ship leave in a hurry and probably save colonial lives by making it leave before it was ready.

-Polaris

[AlanC9]

IanPolaris wrote...


This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  

Because Bio stupidly allowed the Normandy ship upgrades to be installed before Horizon. Nothing more than that.

[IanPolaris]

AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  

Because Bio stupidly allowed the Normandy ship upgrades to be installed before Horizon. Nothing more than that.

*Nod*  What I thought.....

-Polaris

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  

Because Bio stupidly allowed the Normandy ship upgrades to be installed before Horizon. Nothing more than that.

The normandy wasnt upgraded yet in horizon. you simply preordered your thanix guns...

[Iakus]

crimzontearz wrote...

When I was told that ultimately it was all up to me and a Bioware employee said, in an interview, that they juat stopped listening to the forums at all besides positive threads


Or maybe when I was told about secret spreadsheets

Indeed, they didn't just crush hope, they jumped up and down and ground it into the dirt.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  

Because Bio stupidly allowed the Normandy ship upgrades to be installed before Horizon. Nothing more than that.

The normandy wasnt upgraded yet in horizon. you simply preordered your thanix guns...

That's how I headcanon it, yeah. It works if you don't talk about the upgrades with the squadmates.

[Reorte]

AlanC9 wrote...

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  

Because Bio stupidly allowed the Normandy ship upgrades to be installed before Horizon. Nothing more than that.

The normandy wasnt upgraded yet in horizon. you simply preordered your thanix guns...

That's how I headcanon it, yeah. It works if you don't talk about the upgrades with the squadmates.

And then they don't turn out how you expect anyway. One shot from them (seems to work quite well) and you have to still go in to close range and get caught in the explosion. Moral is - preorder stuff never works out the way you expect it. ME2 warned us about 3.

[Erez Kristal]

Reorte wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  

Because Bio stupidly allowed the Normandy ship upgrades to be installed before Horizon. Nothing more than that.

The normandy wasnt upgraded yet in horizon. you simply preordered your thanix guns...

That's how I headcanon it, yeah. It works if you don't talk about the upgrades with the squadmates.

And then they don't turn out how you expect anyway. One shot from them (seems to work quite well) and you have to still go in to close range and get caught in the explosion. Moral is - preorder stuff never works out the way you expect it. ME2 warned us about 3.

Getting close was part of the evassive manuvers...
The shot does almost the same damage if not the same,

[Deathsaurer]

LineHolder wrote...

Bummer. What did they do? Rewire themselves? I'm not going to speculate if that is possible because speculation about this sort of stuff is stupid but it just confirms my view that the writers went into ME3 painting the Reapers as invincible. 

And they had to invent a magical kill-switch to design the game around instead of actually working on material from the previous two games.

This is one of those things that didn't really bother me. I'd expect them to fix a design flaw, especially one as costly as this turned out to be. I think the real place they screwed up with the trilogy was all the plot variables which required 3 and 4 versions of each segment of the story. If you let them have a major impact on how the story plays out new players get auto screwed and no game company is going to want that so they had to make a scenario where "new" players could "win". Branching stories work great for a stand alone title but it's obvious they bring serious issues to the table for a series like Mass Effect. I like the concept but it clearly needs major refinement.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

111987 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It's simple. If there's another human colony being hit by a collector ship, you take out that ship, too. If the colonists are never seen again, what makes you think they're being used for experiments??  They're being harvested for something. If the harvesting stops after taking out the ship you know they only had one ship. You stopped them. It is obvious there will be a debris field. Your crew will sift through the debris field and take whatever tech they can find. They'll find the pods on the ground. They'll find the colonists in stasis. Some of them will be in the pods. Some of them won't be in the pods. Some will be dead. Some won't be dead. Maybe Ashley will be dead. Maybe she won't. If she's dead it saves trouble.

But you don't know what colony is going to be targetted. It was only the Illusive Man's information leak that allowed Shepard to arrive at Horizon on time. And that's a trick that will only work once; from here on out, stopping the Collector's from abducting colonies will boil down to sheer dumb luck. Which nobody should be relying on as their primary option.

But you take the tech. You comb every square inch of the debris field. You'll find an IFF in the field. You may not know it initially, but your crew will eventually identify it. Do you need to know exactly where the collector base is? No. You got your way through the Omega 4 relay if you want to go through it. And who knows what welcoming committee awaits? You didn't know before either. So build your team and go if TIM wants you to do that. You finish in 1/2 the time and can focus on the real enemy.... The Reapers.

The IFF is just a signal; without a computer, or a power source, it's nothing. And since you reduced the ship to rubble, your chances of finding it are remote, if impossible. You're making a lot of assumptions here. Especially considering that if you don't recover the IFF, you've lost your only potential lead.

No you haven't lost your only potential lead. You have EDI. EDI can use the IFF. Why do you need to know where the Collector home world is located? Does it really help you? Did we know where the relays went when we first unlocked them? Where is your sense of adventure? You need to get through the Omega 4 relay. You have one fact available. "No one who has gone through has ever returned." Why is that? That could mean that there is a defense system waiting on the other side of the relay and you're going to die anyway, it leads to a system with a black hole where the amount of drift is absolutely critical, or that there is a special IFF that you need to get through the relay safely. The middle case would also most likely require the latter since the Collectors travel through it all the time as well.

And it turns out The Illusive Man knew all about this all along because he leaked the information in advance to the Collectors. He also leaked the information to the Collectors about Shepard so they would power down their ship for the trap. And funny thing, the only thing you find out is the location of the Collector home world and that they were once the Protheans. Neither of these do you any good. Why? He already knows how to get to the Collector home world. He knows that you need a Reaper IFF, and he's had a team working on that before you even went to investigate the ship. Your risk was totally unnecessary. The Illusive Man is Cerberus. You know about Cerberus: Where we bring you tomorrow's problems today. He put you at risk unnecessarily throughout the story. The man was insane. The only reason I gave him the base was so I wouldn't lose my red eyes.

So bottom line is that you blow up the ship, build your team and get yourselves ready for the big mission, then if you can't find the Collector's IFF in the debris, you analyze the Collector tech you did recover, and wait for Dr. Chandana's team to recover it from the derelict reaper, then go and get it. Go through the Omega 4 relay and be done with it. And I think I'd unshackle EDI as well. There are too many information files that are blocked from the CO of the ship. I'm sure Miranda has access. If Miranda tried to stop me I'd smear the walls with her.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 juin 2013 - 06:28 .

[Erez Kristal]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


And it turns out The Illusive Man knew all about this all along because he leaked the information in advance to the Collectors. He also leaked the information to the Collectors about Shepard so they would power down their ship for the trap. And funny thing, the only thing you find out is the location of the Collector home world and that they were once the Protheans. Neither of these do you any good. Why? He already knows how to get to the Collector home world. He knows that you need a Reaper IFF, and he's had a team working on that before you even went to investigate the ship. Your risk was totally unnecessary. The Illusive Man is Cerberus. You know about Cerberus: Where we bring you tomorrow's problems today. He put you at risk unnecessarily throughout the story. The man was insane. The only reason I gave him the base was so I wouldn't lose my red eyes.

So bottom line is that you blow up the ship, build your team and get yourselves ready for the big mission, then if you can't find the Collector's IFF in the debris, you analyze the Collector tech you did recover, and wait for Dr. Chandana's team to recover it from the derelict reaper, then go and get it. Go through the Omega 4 relay and be done with it. And I think I'd unshackle EDI as well. There are too many information files that are blocked from the CO of the ship. I'm sure Miranda has access. If Miranda tried to stop me I'd smear the walls with her.

You are never put at risk in vain, all he had on the collectors were assumptions.
Maybe they had special defence system that you could only find out through going into there ship and scouting it for intel.

Its better to see you can handle one ship before you go the unknown.

As for those who think the collector ship was a trap laid by the illusive man... it wasnt, he played along yes. but you already knew it was going to be a trap when you first saw the ship, him warning you about it wouldnt have helped you prepare and you needed to do that scouting mission.
If he would have told you about it the collector might have known and would have welcomed your arrival differently.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

111987 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I just want to point out, 111987, that Arrival is basically useless since nobody does anything with the extra time, making that 300,000 lives sacrifice moot.

If the Alpha Relay wasn't destroyed, then the Reapers would have been able to use it to jump straight to the Citadel.

So basically, it would have been been as if they had just flooded through the Citadel Relay. It would be basically the same thing.

It also gave Liara enough time to discover the Crucible plans.

That wasn't my point; my point was, everyone did nothing whatsoever with the additional time. Shepard was retarded enough to let herself get jailed and sat on her ass like everyone else for six months. That is my issue.

All the ME2 guys were doing stuff. Jacob was helping people get out of Cerberus. Garrus was convincing the Turians to believe in the Reaper threat. Mordin was working on the genophage cure. Liara was uncovering the plans for the Crucible, etc...

Then we have Shepard. The protagonist. The hero. Who sits on her ass until the Reapers show up.

It wasn't as if anyone was going to listen to Shepard anyway. You're forgetting about the derp factor. The Batarian system goes dark, and they don't even so much as send a spy probe in to see what the hell is wrong. Khar'shan is getting reaped in silence.

Shepard actually did warn them about it, but they threw her in lock up and did nothing. What's she supposed to do? Behave like a screaming lunatic? Maybe. At least that would have gotten her some good drugs to pass the time.

So the game starts and its the **** she's done, and "whatever it is it's big". "Could this be what Shepard warned us about?"

Then the reapers have blown through the Arcturus fleet, and they're entering the system. Now the Defense Committee is finally taking Shepard seriously.  "What should we do? What kind of strategy should we use?" Now I don't know about you, but I would have loved far more dialogue from Shepard on this one. None of this "this isn't about strategy or tactics" crap. Shep's pissed and isn't in the mood to tolerate fools.

Shepard ®: (lights cigarette) "How the f*** should I know? I'm just an ex-frigate commander whose been beating her head against the goddamn wall for three f***ing years, while you just sat on your fat f***ing asses doing absolutely nothing. I even bought you an additional six f***ing months, and you threw me in a goddamn cell, and stole MY ship. I'm a spectre. You had no right. You didn't even replace the ships you lost three years ago! You're the goddamn geniuses with the big salaries. You figure it out!"

Admiral: "That's it? You're not going to help us?"

Shepard ®: "Look, Sparky. (points) Look at the damned screen. Does it look like I have an answer?"

Admiral: "Uh... no?" <----- this would have been precious.

Reapers start landing in Vancouver.

Shepard: "I'm getting the f*** out of here."

Reaper lands ... fires.... kills Defense Committee.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

erezike wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


And it turns out The Illusive Man knew all about this all along because he leaked the information in advance to the Collectors. He also leaked the information to the Collectors about Shepard so they would power down their ship for the trap. And funny thing, the only thing you find out is the location of the Collector home world and that they were once the Protheans. Neither of these do you any good. Why? He already knows how to get to the Collector home world. He knows that you need a Reaper IFF, and he's had a team working on that before you even went to investigate the ship. Your risk was totally unnecessary. The Illusive Man is Cerberus. You know about Cerberus: Where we bring you tomorrow's problems today. He put you at risk unnecessarily throughout the story. The man was insane. The only reason I gave him the base was so I wouldn't lose my red eyes.

So bottom line is that you blow up the ship, build your team and get yourselves ready for the big mission, then if you can't find the Collector's IFF in the debris, you analyze the Collector tech you did recover, and wait for Dr. Chandana's team to recover it from the derelict reaper, then go and get it. Go through the Omega 4 relay and be done with it. And I think I'd unshackle EDI as well. There are too many information files that are blocked from the CO of the ship. I'm sure Miranda has access. If Miranda tried to stop me I'd smear the walls with her.

You are never put at risk in vain, all he had on the collectors were assumptions.
Maybe they had special defence system that you could only find out through going into there ship and scouting it for intel.

Its better to see you can handle one ship before you go the unknown.

As for those who think the collector ship was a trap laid by the illusive man... it wasnt, he played along yes. but you already knew it was going to be a trap when you first saw the ship, him warning you about it wouldnt have helped you prepare and you needed to do that scouting mission.
If he would have told you about it the collector might have known and would have welcomed your arrival differently.

And the other case is that if you blew up the ship and didn't get any intel and the abductions stopped. You're a hero. You stopped the Collectors. You can focus on the Reapers. If they have more ships they have one less now. They're going to be more careful about their harvesting. They know they are vulnerable. But they didn't have more than one ship. They would have to build another. That would take time. Time enough for the Alliance to install Gardian Lasers on all Colonies, so it's a win no matter what.

There aren't several thousand Sovereign class reapers. They took losses during cycles. You can guarantee it. But BW made an overwhelming way overpowered enemy that required a MacGuffin and a Deus Ex Machina to defeat. The reapers by any stretch of imagination are impossible. Their cycle is impossible to sustain if you were to apply any logic to it. That is why they had to go system by system and lock out the relays. That is why going into the galaxy the way they did this time was a loser. There weren't enough to do it the way they were. A united galaxy should have won a conventional victory by logic. However, that is not how they wanted the game to end. None of our choices mattered because of the exponential derp and exceptional bad luck that happened that always covered up all evidence. Everything boiled down to choosing the color of explosions on your screen at the end.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 juin 2013 - 07:24 .

[David7204]

So eager to give up, aren't you Julia?

The Reapers are not an impossible enemy. A 'MacGuffin' is a perfectly acceptable element of quality writing, and is hence not a derogatory term like you seem to be using it as. And I have confidence a satisfying nonconventional solution to the Reapers could be thought up without significantly changing things before ME 3.

Modifié par David7204, 25 juin 2013 - 08:01 .

[Erez Kristal]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

erezike wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


And it turns out The Illusive Man knew all about this all along because he leaked the information in advance to the Collectors. He also leaked the information to the Collectors about Shepard so they would power down their ship for the trap. And funny thing, the only thing you find out is the location of the Collector home world and that they were once the Protheans. Neither of these do you any good. Why? He already knows how to get to the Collector home world. He knows that you need a Reaper IFF, and he's had a team working on that before you even went to investigate the ship. Your risk was totally unnecessary. The Illusive Man is Cerberus. You know about Cerberus: Where we bring you tomorrow's problems today. He put you at risk unnecessarily throughout the story. The man was insane. The only reason I gave him the base was so I wouldn't lose my red eyes.

So bottom line is that you blow up the ship, build your team and get yourselves ready for the big mission, then if you can't find the Collector's IFF in the debris, you analyze the Collector tech you did recover, and wait for Dr. Chandana's team to recover it from the derelict reaper, then go and get it. Go through the Omega 4 relay and be done with it. And I think I'd unshackle EDI as well. There are too many information files that are blocked from the CO of the ship. I'm sure Miranda has access. If Miranda tried to stop me I'd smear the walls with her.

You are never put at risk in vain, all he had on the collectors were assumptions.
Maybe they had special defence system that you could only find out through going into there ship and scouting it for intel.

Its better to see you can handle one ship before you go the unknown.

As for those who think the collector ship was a trap laid by the illusive man... it wasnt, he played along yes. but you already knew it was going to be a trap when you first saw the ship, him warning you about it wouldnt have helped you prepare and you needed to do that scouting mission.
If he would have told you about it the collector might have known and would have welcomed your arrival differently.

And the other case is that if you blew up the ship and didn't get any intel and the abductions stopped. You're a hero. You stopped the Collectors. You can focus on the Reapers. If they have more ships they have one less now. They're going to be more careful about their harvesting. They know they are vulnerable. But they didn't have more than one ship. They would have to build another. That would take time. Time enough for the Alliance to install Gardian Lasers on all Colonies, so it's a win no matter what.

There aren't several thousand Sovereign class reapers. They took losses during cycles. You can guarantee it. But BW made an overwhelming way overpowered enemy that required a MacGuffin and a Deus Ex Machina to defeat. The reapers by any stretch of imagination are impossible. Their cycle is impossible to sustain if you were to apply any logic to it. That is why they had to go system by system and lock out the relays. That is why going into the galaxy the way they did this time was a loser. There weren't enough to do it the way they were. A united galaxy should have won a conventional victory by logic. However, that is not how they wanted the game to end. None of our choices mattered because of the exponential derp and exceptional bad luck that happened that always covered up all evidence. Everything boiled down to choosing the color of explosions on your screen at the end.

We can sit here complain about julia or we can write a better plot and show them 


As for the collectors ship situation. Tim is a chess player. he knew the reapers were the real threat and wanted to have any advantage he could on them. he wanted the collectors technology, he supplied shepard with all the help he could and believed in shepard chances of success.

What was beyond the omega 4 was a big unknown and if scouting the collector ship meant improving the chances of success then it was a calcualted risk.
At that time the scientists on the derliect reaper werent succesful. and even after you have the iff you still not sure you can make it through. in a situation as dark as this every bit of information helps.

[Erez Kristal]

David7204 wrote...

So eager to give up, aren't you Julia?

The Reapers are not an impossible enemy. A 'MacGuffin' is a perfectly acceptable element of quality writing, and is hence not a derogatory term like you seem to be using it as. And I have confidence a satisfying nonconventional solution to the Reapers could be thought up without significantly changing things before ME 3.

Me1+me2 plots are fine.

I have plenty of solutions that dont involve magic or retardness to end the reapers menace.

[David7204]

Is that right? Why don't you enlighten me of your brilliant ideas?

Modifié par David7204, 25 juin 2013 - 08:12 .

[o Ventus]

IanPolaris wrote...

This still doesn't address my last post?  Once you've gathered all the info you can, why the heck are you trying to get those Gardian Anti-Ship Batteries up?  If you want to make the Collectors leave, then have Normandy do a couple of near orbital strikes with it's Thanix cannon.  That'd make the Collecter ship leave in a hurry and probably save colonial lives by making it leave before it was ready.

-Polaris

Not every colonist was taken. You would then only serve to kill the colonists that WEREN'T abducted.

[Erez Kristal]

David7204 wrote...

Is that right? Why don't you enlighten me of your brilliant ideas?

Whats The point? 
You are always negative. 

If you promise to think this through with me i will be more than happy to discuss this with you.

You are more than welcome to join the mass effect 3 rewrite team.

Modifié par erezike, 25 juin 2013 - 08:14 .