865 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

I'll be positive if the ideas earn positivity. And I'll give them due consideration.

[AlanC9]

David7204 wrote...
 A 'MacGuffin' is a perfectly acceptable element of quality writing, and is hence not a derogatory term like you seem to be using it as. And I have confidence a satisfying nonconventional solution to the Reapers could be thought up without significantly changing things before ME 3. 

I'm starting to think that we should just redefine MacGuffin as "plot device the speaker doesn't like."

I agree that ME1 and ME2 didn't trap the series into non-conventional victory. But OTOH conventional victory comes with its own set of conceptual problems, especially since they set up MEU  space combat as being tactically indecisive unless a side has high-value targets there to defend. Not to mention that Shepard's a ground force commander. Re-run the ME3 development process 50 times and I think you'd get 50 non-conventional victories.

There's a reason Wing Commander 3 ends with Blair flying alone and dropping the T-Bomb on Kilrah.

[David7204]

Mmm. Did you happen to that thread I made a while back that talked about altering the conclusion of Rannoch arc? Ended it with killing a bunch of Reapers?

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...

David7204 wrote...
 A 'MacGuffin' is a perfectly acceptable element of quality writing, and is hence not a derogatory term like you seem to be using it as. And I have confidence a satisfying nonconventional solution to the Reapers could be thought up without significantly changing things before ME 3. 

I'm starting to think that we should just redefine MacGuffin as "plot device the speaker doesn't like."

I agree that ME1 and ME2 didn't trap the series into non-conventional victory. But OTOH conventional victory comes with its own set of conceptual problems, especially since they set up MEU  space combat as being tactically indecisive unless a side has high-value targets there to defend. Not to mention that Shepard's a ground force commander. Re-run the ME3 development process 50 times and I think you'd get 50 non-conventional victories.

There's a reason Wing Commander 3 ends with Blair flying alone and dropping the T-Bomb on Kilrah.

Its hard to do an impressive space battle when the focus is on infantry combat. however this could introduce and a new and refreshing gameplay on a strategic level, you could also add a few scenes where you have to do space combat in a fighter. take the hammerhead gameplay and upgrade so it can actually fly. 

[Erez Kristal]

David7204 wrote...

Mmm. Did you happen to that thread I made a while back that talked about altering the conclusion of Rannoch arc? Ended it with killing a bunch of Reapers?

I just took a look, its a good a thread. mass effect 3 as a whole lacked reaper focus.

[Faust1979]

so much butt hurt because some people didn't get an ending that pandered to them and don't want to have to think about anything

[Erez Kristal]

Faust1979 wrote...

so much butt hurt because some people didn't get an ending that pandered to them and don't want to have to think about anything

I got the ending the first time i saw it.
Its pretty clear. In order to make sure that some organic life survive in the galaxy they need to press the reset button every 50,000 years. otherwise it will be all synthetics.
It isnt very complicated.
Its just very bad.
The biggest problem is that because everyone were shouting about the ending most people didnt realize how bad the entire plot was..

[Faust1979]

erezike wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

so much butt hurt because some people didn't get an ending that pandered to them and don't want to have to think about anything

I got the ending the first time i saw it.
Its pretty clear. In order to make sure that some organic life survive in the galaxy they need to press the reset button every 50,000 years. otherwise it will be all synthetics.
It isnt very complicated.
Its just very bad.
The biggest problem is that because everyone were shouting about the ending most people didnt realize how bad the entire plot was..

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

[Erez Kristal]

Faust1979 wrote...

erezike wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

so much butt hurt because some people didn't get an ending that pandered to them and don't want to have to think about anything

I got the ending the first time i saw it.
Its pretty clear. In order to make sure that some organic life survive in the galaxy they need to press the reset button every 50,000 years. otherwise it will be all synthetics.
It isnt very complicated.
Its just very bad.
The biggest problem is that because everyone were shouting about the ending most people didnt realize how bad the entire plot was..

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Ok, almost everyone were shouting about the ending. 

There are also a lot of players who found the story terribile which is why it recieved low player scores in many places.
The gameplay and multiplayer are pretty good. which is why many players enjoying playing it. its just that the story is a big miss.

[GimmeDaGun]

erezike wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

erezike wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

so much butt hurt because some people didn't get an ending that pandered to them and don't want to have to think about anything

I got the ending the first time i saw it.
Its pretty clear. In order to make sure that some organic life survive in the galaxy they need to press the reset button every 50,000 years. otherwise it will be all synthetics.
It isnt very complicated.
Its just very bad.
The biggest problem is that because everyone were shouting about the ending most people didnt realize how bad the entire plot was..

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Ok, almost everyone were shouting about the ending. 

There are also a lot of players who found the story terribile which is why it recieved low player scores in many places.
The gameplay and multiplayer are pretty good. which is why many players enjoying playing it. its just that the story is a big miss.

To many it is, to many it is not. Go and try to do justice for both groups. You can't. People should realise and face it already: This is how fiction and art in general work (it doesn't matter what you consider art or not in this regard, since that's not the point here): sometimes you just don't get what you expect or consider good, though it does not mean that it is not good for someone else. There's no objective good or bad here. For instance I enjoy the ending of the game and the 3rd game very much, many hate it. Others praise the 2nd game to the heavens, while I think it is overrated as hell, and I find it the weakest of the 3 games. So, different tastes and preferences I guess, but there's nothing objective about it. I have 3 friends who play and like ME. Three of us like the ending, one of us doesn't. Does this mean that the ending is objectively good or that the majority likes it? Do the math yourself (I a help a bit though: no, it does not). 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 25 juin 2013 - 09:01 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Please note that no matter what we say in this thread Bioware isn't going to change the endings. They are done with the game. They are not even going to patch the game. I really wish they would because they need to patch the Ashley graphics glitch but that's besides the point. I just have to remember to save Kaidan every time now.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

Its hard to do an impressive space battle when the focus is on infantry combat. however this could introduce and a new and refreshing gameplay on a strategic level, you could also add a few scenes where you have to do space combat in a fighter. take the hammerhead gameplay and upgrade so it can actually fly. 

I don't have a problem with the concept, but depending on how good you want the combat to be we could be talking about a ton of resources. A fairly crappy implementation would have been easily doable, though.

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...

erezike wrote...

Its hard to do an impressive space battle when the focus is on infantry combat. however this could introduce and a new and refreshing gameplay on a strategic level, you could also add a few scenes where you have to do space combat in a fighter. take the hammerhead gameplay and upgrade so it can actually fly. 

I don't have a problem with the concept, but depending on how good you want the combat to be we could be talking about a ton of resources. A fairly crappy implementation would have been easily doable, though.

It will most likely received bad implemantation like the mako and hammerhead in the previous titles.

In that case they could have just sticked with giveing shepard a strategic command on the helm of the normandy.
Add a small mini game with tactical decisions.  

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Please note that no matter what we say in this thread Bioware isn't going to change the endings. They are done with the game. They are not even going to patch the game. I really wish they would because they need to patch the Ashley graphics glitch but that's besides the point. I just have to remember to save Kaidan every time now.

i feel your pain :happy:

[Dubozz]

Faust1979 wrote...

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Good to know you like it. Apparently you are not alone. I personally never knew someone who liked ME3 ending irl. Never seen "10 reason I love ME3 ending" video as well. Seen a plenty of "Why i hate ME3 ending" videos with millions(no jk) of views though. Also ME3 main plot sucks big time. Ending works? Nope. It's just easy to satisfy you.

[Erez Kristal]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

To many it is, to many it is not. Go and try to do justice for both groups. You can't. People should realise and face it already: This is how fiction and art in general work (it doesn't matter what you consider art or not in this regard, since that's not the point here): sometimes you just don't get what you expect or consider good, though it does not mean that it is not good for someone else. There's no objective good or bad here. For instance I enjoy the ending of the game and the 3rd game very much, many hate it. Others praise the 2nd game to the heavens, while I think it is overrated as hell, and I find it the weakest of the 3 games. So, different tastes and preferences I guess, but there's nothing objective about it. I have 3 friends who play and like ME. Three of us like the ending, one of us doesn't. Does this mean that the ending is objectively good or that the majority likes it? Do the math yourself (I a help a bit though: no, it does not). 

A good game should appeal to as many of the audiance as it can and also be true to its promise.
mass effect 3 was not as loved as me2 and m1 by the general public.
Not by a longshot.

And it was only because of the story. the gameplay and multiplayer added a lot to game.

[Faust1979]

Dubozz wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Good to know you like it. Apparently you are not alone. I personally never knew someone who liked ME3 ending irl. Never seen "10 reason I love ME3 ending" video as well. Seen a plenty of "Why i hate ME3 ending" videos with millions(no jk) of views though. Also ME3 main plot sucks big time. Ending works? Nope. It's just easy to satisfy you.

Because the people that tend to hate something more are the most vocal of a group

Modifié par Faust1979, 25 juin 2013 - 09:17 .

[Kel Riever]

Faust1979 wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Good to know you like it. Apparently you are not alone. I personally never knew someone who liked ME3 ending irl. Never seen "10 reason I love ME3 ending" video as well. Seen a plenty of "Why i hate ME3 ending" videos with millions(no jk) of views though. Also ME3 main plot sucks big time. Ending works? Nope. It's just easy to satisfy you.

Because the people that tend to hate something more or the most vocal of a group

I KNOW!  That's why people who hate ending haters just can't shut the hell up! 

Modifié par Kel Riever, 25 juin 2013 - 09:18 .

[Dubozz]

Faust1979 wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Good to know you like it. Apparently you are not alone. I personally never knew someone who liked ME3 ending irl. Never seen "10 reason I love ME3 ending" video as well. Seen a plenty of "Why i hate ME3 ending" videos with millions(no jk) of views though. Also ME3 main plot sucks big time. Ending works? Nope. It's just easy to satisfy you.

Because the people that tend to hate something more are the most vocal of a group

Like millions of them? when only 4m bought the game? For sure haha. Seriously though. I make social researches for living. When even thousand of people tell your product sucks like x100 think the same way. And it's a big trouble.

Modifié par Dubozz, 25 juin 2013 - 09:24 .

[dreamgazer]

Dubozz wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Good to know you like it. Apparently you are not alone. I personally never knew someone who liked ME3 ending irl. Never seen "10 reason I love ME3 ending" video as well. Seen a plenty of "Why i hate ME3 ending" videos with millions(no jk) of views though. Also ME3 main plot sucks big time. Ending works? Nope. It's just easy to satisfy you.

I wouldn't search for Mass Effect 2 hatred articles either, because you'll find a good many of those, too.

That's the Internet for ya: it's a hell of a lot easier to bash. 

[Erez Kristal]

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Stop saying everyone because I love the games and I love the plot and there are plenty of people here who have detailed the endings and why they do like them.  The endings work

Good to know you like it. Apparently you are not alone. I personally never knew someone who liked ME3 ending irl. Never seen "10 reason I love ME3 ending" video as well. Seen a plenty of "Why i hate ME3 ending" videos with millions(no jk) of views though. Also ME3 main plot sucks big time. Ending works? Nope. It's just easy to satisfy you.

I wouldn't search for Mass Effect 2 hatred articles either, because you'll find a good many of those, too.

That's the Internet for ya: it's a hell of a lot easier to bash. 

Me 2 tops the userscore charts of 2010.
Mass effect 3 fails to make that claim...

[dreamgazer]

erezike wrote...

Me 2 tops the userscore charts of 2010.
Mass effect 3 fails to make that claim...

Hey, if you go by Metacritic's 360 scores, ME3 has nearly double the positive scores of Mass Effect 2, and many of the red scores are "good/great/fantastic game ... except for the ending".

Do those folks not matter in this conversation?

[Nole]

The question is, the people that hate the game with passion and are still here, Are they waiting to see (Or want to see) Bioware's fall? Or, Are they waiting to see if Bioware can find the way to go back to their roots, and make a good game again?

Because, if it is the first thing, kid, you need help.