865 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Aaaannnd...that's another game ending Eterna5 has spoiled for me.  Jackass.  <_<


As for the actual topic, when the credits rolled and it hit me that BioWare released the game apparently believing that what they released was perfectly fine and how it took a fairly loud backlash from fans for them to do anything about it.

Out of curiosity, what was the other one? 

[Astartes Marine]

Eterna5 wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

Aaaannnd...that's another game ending Eterna5 has spoiled for me.  Jackass.  <_<


As for the actual topic, when the credits rolled and it hit me that BioWare released the game apparently believing that what they released was perfectly fine and how it took a fairly loud backlash from fans for them to do anything about it.

Out of curiosity, what was the other one? 

Bioshock Infinite.  Please for the love of anything sacred just use spoiler tags/warnings. 

[Eterna]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

Aaaannnd...that's another game ending Eterna5 has spoiled for me.  Jackass.  <_<


As for the actual topic, when the credits rolled and it hit me that BioWare released the game apparently believing that what they released was perfectly fine and how it took a fairly loud backlash from fans for them to do anything about it.

Out of curiosity, what was the other one? 

Bioshock Infinite.  Please for the love of anything sacred just use spoiler tags/warnings. 

I've never discussed Bioshock Infinite on these boards. 

Also sorry for spoiling it, I didn't really mean to get into it. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 23 juin 2013 - 11:38 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

brettc893 wrote...

 By redeeming I mean, all of the brilliant fan theories that would have made everything better ending up wrong, a grand expansion never coming, things of that nature.

I'm gonna have to go with as soon as Omega came out.  

I never felt that the endings needed redemption, so I guess you could say never.

But if we're going with your definition, I would say that the moment they said "we are done with the endings" after the EC is when I believed them. Getting them to make the EC was a long struggle and it was never going to be on the fans terms, that was just a reality of the situation. So anyone thinking that they were going to pressure bioware into changing what they didn't want to change was just fooling themselves IMO, and I tended to say just that when talking to them.

[AresKeith]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

Aaaannnd...that's another game ending Eterna5 has spoiled for me.  Jackass.  <_<


As for the actual topic, when the credits rolled and it hit me that BioWare released the game apparently believing that what they released was perfectly fine and how it took a fairly loud backlash from fans for them to do anything about it.

Out of curiosity, what was the other one? 

Bioshock Infinite.  Please for the love of anything sacred just use spoiler tags/warnings. 

That was TxGoldRush

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans. 

They asked for 'fan feedback' and promptly started plugging their fingers into their ears and saying "NAH NAH NAH! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE US, WE'RE BIOWARE!"

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 23 juin 2013 - 11:44 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans.

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I never understood why the people at bioware are expected to have no human emotions, and not have opinions of their work at all. That they should just bow down and grovel at the fans beck and call because that is their place.

Doesn't seem right to insult a person directly, and expect them to smile and take it and say "Your right, how foolish of me. I should totally just do everything you say."

[Ravensword]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans.

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I never understood why the people at bioware are expected to have no human emotions, and not have opinions of their work at all. That they should just bow down and grovel at the fans beck and call because that is their place.

Doesn't seem right to insult a person directly, and expect them to smile and take it and say "Your right, how foolish of me. I should totally just do everything you say."

You're completely right. But the thing is, I never said that. Neither did many of the reasonable fans. Are you suggesting that people shut up and be grateful for what they pay for?

When a large portion of the fanbase, especially the dedicated fans, criticize something heavily, don't you think that they should stand back and say, "Maybe we have a problem here, and maybe it's not our fans, but maybe, just maybe, there's a problem on our end?" 

You could say the EC was that, though the language I heard from BW was more of this:

"We'll try this again, and we'll do it slower this time, since apparently you idiots didn't get it the first time."

Obviously, experiences may vary, but it certainly seemed that they weren't explaining anything, and were making a distinct effort to be "high-level" and "out-there", the former word choice being used by CHud himself. 

And really, one thing I want is some explanation to why they did the ending they did. I want to know what they were thinking and what how they envisioned the ending to pan out. I'd love to have a nice, civil discourse on the merits of their idea versus the problems with their interpretation. And now it seems that they don't want to explain or talk about the ending at all.

And frankly, I was rather disgusted with the condescending attitude that BW used on the fans. 

Though, thank you for not resorting to terms like 'entitlement' or 'whiny fan'.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 23 juin 2013 - 11:53 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans.

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I never understood why the people at bioware are expected to have no human emotions, and not have opinions of their work at all. That they should just bow down and grovel at the fans beck and call because that is their place.

Doesn't seem right to insult a person directly, and expect them to smile and take it and say "Your right, how foolish of me. I should totally just do everything you say."

But you would figure them, being a company and using PR, would know insulting fans back don't help. Which it didn't.

[dreamgazer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans. 

They asked for 'fan feedback' and promptly started plugging their fingers into their ears and saying "NAH NAH NAH! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE US, WE'RE BIOWARE!"

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I think you're misinterpreting their responses and rhetoric, but I know that can't be changed.

Their PR should have definitely handled the situation better, though. It was messy.

[spirosz]

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's 

What. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's 

What. 

You're late.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans. 

They asked for 'fan feedback' and promptly started plugging their fingers into their ears and saying "NAH NAH NAH! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE US, WE'RE BIOWARE!"

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I think you're misinterpreting their responses and rhetoric, but I know that can't be changed.

Their PR should have definitely handled the situation better, though. It was messy.

I will admit, some of my resentment did boil over in that. 

But yes, the PR was absolutely atrocious. 

As I say, it wasn't ME3's ending that killed BW for me. It was the PR that made me realize who my money was going to. 

They completely shattered any trust and credibility as a corporation in my eyes. And I don't think it's coming back either.

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans. 

They asked for 'fan feedback' and promptly started plugging their fingers into their ears and saying "NAH NAH NAH! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE US, WE'RE BIOWARE!"

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

QFT.  Especially the bolded part.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's 

What. 

Yeah no.

I hated Last of Us' ending, but I know it's because of my own perspective rather than anything the game did.

I hated LoU's ending because I'm the kind of guy who'd have sacrificed Ellie if it meant finding a possible cure. The game was a little too hamfisted in it's morality for my tastes, but it didn't have any major narrative and lore violations like ME3. The ending fit the the theme of the story, even if I didn't agree with the outcome. 

[KiwiQuiche]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's 

What. 

Yeah no.

I hated Last of Us' ending, but I know it's because of my own perspective rather than anything the game did.

I hated LoU's ending because I'm the kind of guy who'd have sacrificed Ellie if it meant finding a possible cure. The game was a little too hamfisted in it's morality for my tastes, but it didn't have any major narrative and lore violations like ME3. The ending fit the the theme of the story, even if I didn't agree with the outcome. 

While I liked The Last of Us end, I agree with Massive on the part it was not the conclusion to a nearly decade long trilogy that ended in a horrible snarled mess of broken lore, confusion and random speculations.

[spirosz]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's 

What. 

Yeah no.

I hated Last of Us' ending, but I know it's because of my own perspective rather than anything the game did.

I hated LoU's ending because I'm the kind of guy who'd have sacrificed Ellie if it meant finding a possible cure. The game was a little too hamfisted in it's morality for my tastes, but it didn't have any major narrative and lore violations like ME3. The ending fit the the theme of the story, even if I didn't agree with the outcome. 

Now that's fine, but as you stated - it didn't "violate" anything and we weren't "controlling" Joel, like we were able to craft our Shepard(s).  

Also exactly - "The ending fit the the theme of the story, even if I didn't agree with the outcome."

[Kel Riever]

dreamgazer wrote...

The EC should have been a clear indicator that any and all "theories" were going to be left as viable interpretations, and nothing more.

i really don't understand why it took anyone beyond this point.  The EC was the point I stopped buying anything from BuoWare, though I happily participate in the excellent multiplayer for no addition charge.

[Clayless]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

But you would figure them, being a company and using PR, would know insulting fans back don't help. Which it didn't.

By this do you mean that Bioware insulted the fans back?

If so, could you post a source for this?

[Cainhurst Crow]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans.

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I never understood why the people at bioware are expected to have no human emotions, and not have opinions of their work at all. That they should just bow down and grovel at the fans beck and call because that is their place.

Doesn't seem right to insult a person directly, and expect them to smile and take it and say "Your right, how foolish of me. I should totally just do everything you say."

But you would figure them, being a company and using PR, would know insulting fans back don't help. Which it didn't.

The thing is, they didn't even do that. People who complain, usually complain about how there is a subtle insult being directed at them that you need to do a bit of mental gymnastics to see. It's not like they went the War Z route when dealing with fans, so I don't see why treating them as if they did do this is good.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

-snipped for space-

I get where your coming from, but that ignores the fact that most of the people who were complaining were in fact using insults, threats, and generally acting like a pack of rapid ****s whenever bioware was brought up. This rational, calm, willing to listen group of fans didn't show up until months after the ending, before it really was just no-holds-bar haymaker insults meant for maximum insult and pain.

And a lot of your points, is the whole self-created, you have to look really hard and take things said a certain way, very hard to see if your not trying to see an insult, kind of insults that I was talking about above.

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans. 

They asked for 'fan feedback' and promptly started plugging their fingers into their ears and saying "NAH NAH NAH! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE US, WE'RE BIOWARE!"

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I think you're misinterpreting their responses and rhetoric, but I know that can't be changed.

Their PR should have definitely handled the situation better, though. It was messy.

I will admit, some of my resentment did boil over in that. 

But yes, the PR was absolutely atrocious. 

As I say, it wasn't ME3's ending that killed BW for me. It was the PR that made me realize who my money was going to. 

They completely shattered any trust and credibility as a corporation in my eyes. And I don't think it's coming back either.

I don't see a lot of the things people do when it comes to the PR. Honestly, a lot of it sounds like people seeing what they want to see in the statements made.

That being said, I will agree with you here on at least one thing. They really did a crappy job with the PR.

[Mordanticus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I get where your coming from, but that ignores the fact that most of the people who were complaining were in fact using insults, threats, and generally acting like a pack of rapid ****s whenever bioware was brought up. This rational, calm, willing to listen group of fans didn't show up until months after the ending, before it really was just no-holds-bar haymaker insults meant for maximum insult and pain.

This is only partially true.. Of course there were a truckload of fans doing exactly as you say.. Throwing insults, threats, and foaming at the mouth.. But there were a large number of us who were quite rational right from the beginning of the whole mess.. I remember my own (as well as so many other's empassioned posts) on the subject back then.. Literally in shock and just trying to get a sympathetic ear from Bioware to listen to what we felt..

Modifié par Mordanticus, 24 juin 2013 - 12:21 .

[Clayless]

Mordanticus wrote...

This is only partially true.. Of course there were a truckload of fans doing exactly as you say.. Throwing insults, threats, and foaming at the mouth.. But there were a large number of us who were quite rational right from the beginning of the whole mess.. I remember my own (as well as so many other's empassioned posts) on the subject back then.. Literally in shock and just trying to get a sympathetic ear from Bioware to listen to what we felt..

This is an assumption but, by the looks of your signature, you're part of the Retake movement.

The Retake movement were by far the worst bunch of the lot, and what you're saying is you willingly stand beside them. If you stand with those people don't be surprised when you all get tarred with the same brush.

Modifié par Robosexual, 24 juin 2013 - 12:39 .