865 réponses à ce sujet

[xlegionx]

As soon as I shot StarBrat after the EC and got that middle finger of an ending.

Don't even get a speech that route. Such an immature move on Bioware's part

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...


Would you really prefer to see the rocks falling?

I didn't see them, but I heard them in my head during that scene.

... okay? What else were you expecting? 

Because BioWare weren't interested in channeling Babylon 5's handling of the Shadow War in that scenario. 

::insert Deus Ex comment here::

You could insert a Foundation's Edge comment in there, too.  It's an unoriginal idea however you slice it. 

If done more properly, I'd greatly prefer that over: "Get out of our galaxy!!" "... okay."

Modifié par dreamgazer, 24 juin 2013 - 01:55 .

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

No, some people were, others were asking for a refuse option that led to destruction.

Bioware listened to fans and made a refuse option that led to destruction. Imagining that as an insult doesn't make it so.

So they only listened to fans who went along with what Bioware wanted anyway.

Gotcha.

If we were to judge what Bioware wanted it could be argued that they didn't want a refuse option in the first place, hence the reason it's not there without the EC.

Saying they "only listened to fans who went along with what Bioware wanted" in hindsight like that is like saying you can romance Vega in Citadel because they only listened to fans who went along with what Bioware wanted. If Bioware wanted Vega to be romancable, if Bioware wanted a refuse option, then it would have been there in the first place. It wasn't, but fans wanted it, so Bioware added it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Get the hell back on topic.

[Clayless]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So what you're saying is you have no source apart from your imagination.

That's what I thought.

I am not your mother so do your own research.

But hey, assume away like you know all.

Yes, because if you make a claim it's the other persons job to provide sources for you.

That's how things work. How silly of me to forget that.

[KaiserShep]

I'm not sure what people were really expecting with a refuse option, since the entire game establishes that not using the Crucible means certain death. A refuse that had any other outcome would probably require quite a lot of revision of the entire game from top to bottom.

[KiwiQuiche]

Robosexual wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So what you're saying is you have no source apart from your imagination.

That's what I thought.

I am not your mother so do your own research.

But hey, assume away like you know all.

Yes, because if you make a claim it's the other persons job to provide sources for you.

That's how things work. How silly of me to forget that.

It is. Not my fault you didn't read Bioware's responses at the start of this.

[AresKeith]

Robosexual wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So what you're saying is you have no source apart from your imagination.

That's what I thought.

I am not your mother so do your own research.

But hey, assume away like you know all.

Yes, because if you make a claim it's the other persons job to provide sources for you.

That's how things work. How silly of me to forget that.

Well in your case and some others you sometimes ignore the said source link

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

If we were to judge what Bioware wanted it could be argued that they didn't want a refuse option in the first place, hence the reason it's not there without the EC.

Saying they "only listened to fans who went along with what Bioware wanted" in hindsight like that is like saying you can romance Vega in Citadel because they only listened to fans who went along with what Bioware wanted. If Bioware wanted Vega to be romancable, if Bioware wanted a refuse option, then it would have been there in the first place. It wasn't, but fans wanted it, so Bioware added it.

They went along with the option that only added another needlessly tragic outcome, much like the endings Bioware already had, which they thought were awesome.

Rather than giving the option for a more upbeat ending more people (I believe) wanted.  

And I think it's a huge stretch to call Vega "romanceable" in Citadel, but that's another topic.

[Clayless]

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Yes, because if you make a claim it's the other persons job to provide sources for you.

That's how things work. How silly of me to forget that.

Well in your case and some others you sometimes ignore the said source link

I haven't done this. I read all sources that are provided.

In this case his source was go look for yourself and go look for yourself I'm not your mother. That's the equivalent to saying "Google it", which doesn't fly anywhere.

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm not sure what people were really expecting with a refuse option, since the entire game establishes that not using the Crucible means certain death. A refuse that had any other outcome would probably require quite a lot of revision of the entire game from top to bottom.

ME2 estaslished no one came back from the Omega IV Relay, and it was suicide to try. 

It wouldn't require a head-on battle with th Reapers.  Just finding another option in dealing with the Catalyst.

[KiwiQuiche]

Robosexual wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Yes, because if you make a claim it's the other persons job to provide sources for you.

That's how things work. How silly of me to forget that.

Well in your case and some others you sometimes ignore the said source link

I haven't done this. I read all sources that are provided.

In this case his source was go look for yourself and go look for yourself I'm not your mother. That's the equivalent to saying "Google it", which doesn't fly anywhere.

Fine, since you can't seem to use google; http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/
http://www.ign.com/a...ect-3-criticism
Guess what? I got those by simply Googling "Bioware mass effect PR responses." Omg so difficult!

And seriously, they are passive-aggressive in their reactions. Fans finally seeing "common sense" Why are you complaing, we've got 75 perfect scores.

Yup, they were gracious.

Oh and I'm a she.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 24 juin 2013 - 02:10 .

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

They went along with the option that only added another needlessly tragic outcome, much like the endings Bioware already had, which they thought were awesome.

Rather than giving the option for a more upbeat ending more people (I believe) wanted.  

And I think it's a huge stretch to call Vega "romanceable" in Citadel, but that's another topic.

So what you're saying is Bioware listened to fans, therefore it was an insult to the fans they didn't listen to?

What do you believe Bioware could do, in that situation, that wouldn't be an insult to the fans then?

[PMC65]

I knew that there was no hope after reading comments like this ...

"I think a lot of the common sense is prevailing," Hudson said. "Initially, it was spun in a direction that suggested that we had taken the lore out of Mass Effect 3 and were holding it inside the DLC (From Ashes) only, which now the people who actually have played Mass Effect 3 and the DLC they know that that's not true. So that fear was set aside and, ultimately, I think people get it now."

And this ...

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable," Hudson told Digital Trends. "Even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people - debating what the endings mean and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in."
"That to me is part of what's exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery there and a little bit of interpretation, and it's a story that people can talk about after the fact."

To be honest, I like Casey but he sounded like a kid who tripped and instead of admitting it ... jumped up, hands in the air yelling "Ta-da! I meant to do that!"

If it had been me, I'm not sure if I would have done any better. Its hard when you saw all the hard work that your team had put in only to have it hated. Everything was a knee-jerk reaction and calmer heads were being drowned out by the rabid outbursts.

Maybe somewhere down the line we (Hudson & disappointed fans) can talk ... just as the Dragon Age fans and Bioware are now touching on Dragon Age II. That's my hope. 

[KaiserShep]

iakus wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm not sure what people were really expecting with a refuse option, since the entire game establishes that not using the Crucible means certain death. A refuse that had any other outcome would probably require quite a lot of revision of the entire game from top to bottom.

ME2 estaslished no one came back from the Omega IV Relay, and it was suicide to try. 

It wouldn't require a head-on battle with th Reapers.  Just finding another option in dealing with the Catalyst.

Both Mass Effect 2 and 3 base their conclusions on the setups given throughout each game. In 2, you're told it would be a suicide mission, but you spend the entire game preparing your crew and preparing your ship to fight the Collectors. It's pretty much a given that you have a chance of survival, and have a chance to bring at least some of your crew back. In 3, the entire thing revolves around gathering resources to build the Crucible. You get scientists, engineers, etc. all dedicating their efforts into building and protecting it. 

The way I see it, the only reasonable way refuse would work that doesn't involve certain death would be that everything the catalyst told you was a lie to get you to get one of its own desired results, and it fired up, fried him into oblivion, and sent all the reapers to hell. That would've been nice, but I don't believe it was even in the cards that BioWare was even going to consider such a thing. No matter what, the narrative dictates that the Crucible is necessary to get a "positive" outcome. Anything less would be a failure. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 24 juin 2013 - 02:25 .

[Iakus]

[quote]Robosexual wrote...

So what you're saying is Bioware listened to fans, therefore it was an insult to the fans they didn't listen to?[/quote]

They listened to the fans who they wanted to listen to, who were already amenable to their "vision", yes.

I recall there was a prett in-depth survey on a German site.  Even Bioware took an interest in how it would turn out.  At least until it demonstrated how overwhelmingly negative the response was to the ending, how many people wanted a happier outcome, nboth for SHepard and for the galaxy as a whole.  Then suddenly the poll was meaningless.  Bioware's "secret data" said so.

[quote]
What do you believe Bioware could do, in that situation, that wouldn't be an insult to the fans then?

[/quote

More and more varied endings.  Not "pick one of our awesome choices or everyone dies anyway"

[Clayless]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Fine, since you can't seem to use google; http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/
http://www.ign.com/a...ect-3-criticism
Guess what? I got those by simply Googling "Bioware mass effect PR responses." Omg so difficult!

And seriously, they are passive-aggressive in their reactions. Fans finally seeing "common sense" Why are you complaing, we've got 75 perfect scores.

Yup, they were gracious.

Oh and I'm a she.

Nowhere do they say "common sense" or ask why people are complaining in the blog. Even the IGN source:

Regarding the From Ashes DLC, Hudson thinks fans are starting to see
"common sense". "Initially, it was spun in a direction that suggested
that we had taken the lore out of Mass Effect 3," he said. "Now the
people who actually have played Mass Effect 3 and the DLC they know that
that's not true."

Isn't about the ending, it's about From Ashes.

[KiwiQuiche]

Robosexual wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Fine, since you can't seem to use google; http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/
http://www.ign.com/a...ect-3-criticism
Guess what? I got those by simply Googling "Bioware mass effect PR responses." Omg so difficult!

And seriously, they are passive-aggressive in their reactions. Fans finally seeing "common sense" Why are you complaing, we've got 75 perfect scores.

Yup, they were gracious.

Oh and I'm a she.

Nowhere do they say "common sense" or ask why people are complaining in the blog. Even the IGN source:

Regarding the From Ashes DLC, Hudson thinks fans are starting to see
"common sense". "Initially, it was spun in a direction that suggested
that we had taken the lore out of Mass Effect 3," he said. "Now the
people who actually have played Mass Effect 3 and the DLC they know that
that's not true."

Isn't about the ending, it's about From Ashes.

And I see you missed the bigger picture/actually read the whole source. Oh well, I tried.

[Clayless]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

And I see you missed the bigger picture/actually read the whole source. Oh well, I tried.

So your source was:

Google it.

Google it I'm not your mother.

You missed the bigger picture.

So Bioware insulted fans because people that disagree with you missed the bigger picture and you don't need to provide a source?

I would say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

[KiwiQuiche]

Robosexual wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

And I see you missed the bigger picture/actually read the whole source. Oh well, I tried.

So your source was:

Google it.

Google it I'm not your mother.

You missed the bigger picture.

So Bioware insulted fans because people that disagree with you missed the bigger picture and you don't need to provide a source?

I would say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

You didn't even read the source, did you. Seriously, do I need to hand hold you via quoting directly and slowly explaining it or something?

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...


Both Mass Effect 2 and 3 base their conclusions on the setups given throughout each game. In 2, you're told it would be a suicide mission, but you spend the entire game preparing your crew and preparing your ship to fight the Collectors. It's pretty much a given that you have a chance of survival, and have a chance to bring at least some of your crew back. In 3, the entire thing revolves around gathering resources to build the Crucible. You get scientists, engineers, etc. all dedicating their efforts into building and protecting it.

You also spend much of the game preparing for the unknown, not knowing what you may find on teh other side fo the relay.  In ME3 you spent pretty much the whole game not knowing what the Crucible does or what the Catalyst was.

The way I see it, the only reasonable way refuse would work that doesn't involve certain death would be that everything the catalyst told you was a lie to get you to get one of its own desired results, and it fired up, fried him into oblivion, and sent all the reapers to hell. That would've been nice, but I don't believe it was even in the cards that BioWare was even going to consider such a thing.

The EMS system was practically designed to allow varied outcomes based on a magic number.  More variations could have been provided based on your score.  Or Shepard could even figure out a new function, based on in-game factors.

[Iakus]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

You didn't even read the source, did you. Seriously, do I need to hand hold you via quoting directly and slowly explaining it or something?

You can lead a horse to water...

[KiwiQuiche]

iakus wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

You didn't even read the source, did you. Seriously, do I need to hand hold you via quoting directly and slowly explaining it or something?

You can lead a horse to water...

Yeah, it's kinda apparent with that now. Oh well, I tried.

[dreamgazer]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

You didn't even read the source, did you. Seriously, do I need to hand hold you via quoting directly and slowly explaining it or something?

Please do. Can you wait about five minutes while I get some popcorn together? 

[KiwiQuiche]

dreamgazer wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

You didn't even read the source, did you. Seriously, do I need to hand hold you via quoting directly and slowly explaining it or something?

Please do. Can you wait about five minutes while I get some popcorn together? 

Sure. Don't forget the butter.