865 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Can you three please take this somewhere else?

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

DLC is not a magic paintbrush that can be used to fix any problems with the story.

This is true.

However, sometimes it's the only tool available.

[David7204]

This is true but sometimes it's not true because it's all that's available? No. It's true, all the time, period.

Sometimes there are no tools available, period.

[Clayless]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Yes it does. You do realize something is considered offensive when someone is offended, not before?

...Dude, that's my point. You missed it. Again.

And no need to be snappish at PMC, they were just trying to lighten the mood.

No, there is a difference between choosing to be offended or believing something to be offensive when it isn't. You can be offended by (literally anything) but that doesn't mean said thing is offensive.

As you saw, you're simply believing they said things that weren't even implied by the sources you provided, even going as far to say that constructive criticism is somehow not criticism or that they said "who cares about the complaints" in direct contradiction to the EC statement, and because of that you are saying Bioware insulted the fans. If they actually did say the things you said then sure, you might have a leg to stand on, but they didn't.

[KiwiQuiche]

Robosexual wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Yes it does. You do realize something is considered offensive when someone is offended, not before?

...Dude, that's my point. You missed it. Again.

And no need to be snappish at PMC, they were just trying to lighten the mood.

No, there is a difference between choosing to be offended or believing something to be offensive when it isn't. You can be offended by (literally anything) but that doesn't mean said thing is offensive.

As you saw, you're simply believing they said things that weren't even implied by the sources you provided, even going as far to say that constructive criticism is somehow not criticism or that they said "who cares about the complaints" in direct contradiction to the EC statement, and because of that you are saying Bioware insulted the fans. If they actually did say the things you said then sure, you might have a leg to stand on, but they didn't.

You cannot say "something isn't offensive" which you basically just did. Though you think Bioware's reactions was fine, I and many others did not.

...dude wut. Learn PR talk, they are obviously trying to deflect the issue and saying they'll only accept tame constructive criticism, because a 'few passionate' fans are complaining then keep on harping about those perfect scores as if that makes everyone elses complaints irrelevant.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Can you three please take this somewhere else?

I assume I'm one of them?

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 24 juin 2013 - 04:06 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

That depends, have you been engaging in an off-topic internet fight with someone here?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 24 juin 2013 - 04:10 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That depends, have you been engaging in an off-topic internet fight with someone here?

Well, it is kinda relevant to the 'no hope in redeeming the endings' due to the reaction from Bioware who made it clear they weren't gonna change the core nonsense.

But true, people who can't read or bother investigating things on their own ****** me off, as demonstrated.

[Farangbaa]

My God, just let it go already, it's been well over a year.

Accept the endings, or never play a Bioware game again. Throw your ME game discs out of the window, or if you're angry enough, throw them at somebody cutting their neck in half.

Or use them on your own neck

But for God's sake's stop trying to convince people that the endings suck and that Bioware should do something about it. These are their endings, whether you like it or not. There will never be a happy end.

[KiwiQuiche]

Psychevore wrote...

My God, just let it go already, it's been well over a year.

Accept the endings, or never play a Bioware game again. Throw your ME game discs out of the window, or if you're angry enough, throw them at somebody cutting their neck in half.

Or use them on your own neck

But for God's sake's stop trying to convince people that the endings suck and that Bioware should do something about it. These are their endings, whether you like it or not. There will never be a happy end.

Oh I'm well aware they aren't gonna change the ending, they've made that abundantly clear.


I'm still gonna complain about it to my heart's content though, regardless of imput.

[Nole]

Psychevore wrote...

My God, just let it go already, it's been well over a year.

Accept the endings, or never play a Bioware game again. Throw your ME game discs out of the window, or if you're angry enough, throw them at somebody cutting their neck in half.

Or use them on your own neck

But for God's sake's stop trying to convince people that the endings suck and that Bioware should do something about it. These are their endings, whether you like it or not. There will never be a happy end.

You have to understand that the game was their life. So, Bioware practically ruined their life.

[KiwiQuiche]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Psychevore wrote...

My God, just let it go already, it's been well over a year.

Accept the endings, or never play a Bioware game again. Throw your ME game discs out of the window, or if you're angry enough, throw them at somebody cutting their neck in half.

Or use them on your own neck

But for God's sake's stop trying to convince people that the endings suck and that Bioware should do something about it. These are their endings, whether you like it or not. There will never be a happy end.

You have to understand that the game was their life. So, Bioware practically ruined their life.

*In Simpsons Voice*

Dramatization may not have happened.

[Clayless]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

You cannot say "something isn't offensive" which you basically just did. Though you think Bioware's reactions was fine, I and many others did not.

I actually said that believing something to be offensive doesn't actually make it so, and as an example pointed out that literally anything can be offensive to you. That part could spark an interesting debate, perhaps everything is actually offensive or perhaps nothing is, but that's not the important part. The important part is the things you said were an insult weren't evident in the sources you provided. Your source was literally just your imagination. It does not matter how much people agree with your imagination if you have no source to back it up.

...dude wut. Learn PR talk, they are obviously trying to deflect the issue and saying they'll only accept tame constructive criticism, because a 'few passionate' fans are complaining then keep on harping about those perfect scores as if that makes everyone elses complaints irrelevant.

You say they're trying to deflect the issue in a statement that says they're directly addressing the issue with a free DLC. You say that they'll only accept "tame" constructive criticism and directly acknowledge that they said they're listening to their passionate fans. Instead of trying to figure out what they're saying perhaps you should listen to what they actually say.

Anyway, as nothing new has been said for a while now and your sources fell through, I'm fine with leaving this here. If you can provide a source where Bioware actually insults the fans, and not one where you believe they insulted the fans based on things they never said but that you believe they said, then I'll probably continue this with you.

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

You say they're trying to deflect the issue in a statement that says they're directly addressing the issue with a free DLC. You say that they'll only accept "tame" constructive criticism and directly acknowledge that they said they're listening to their passionate fans. Instead of trying to figure out what they're saying perhaps you should listen to what they actually say.

Welcome to PR Doublespeak.

[KaiserShep]

Psychevore wrote...
But for God's sake's stop trying to convince people that the endings suck...

I thought this was common knowledge by now. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Robosexual wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

You cannot say "something isn't offensive" which you basically just did. Though you think Bioware's reactions was fine, I and many others did not.

I actually said that believing something to be offensive doesn't actually make it so, and as an example pointed out that literally anything can be offensive to you. That part could spark an interesting debate, perhaps everything is actually offensive or perhaps nothing is, but that's not the important part. The important part is the things you said were an insult weren't evident in the sources you provided. Your source was literally just your imagination. It does not matter how much people agree with your imagination if you have no source to back it up.

...dude wut. Learn PR talk, they are obviously trying to deflect the issue and saying they'll only accept tame constructive criticism, because a 'few passionate' fans are complaining then keep on harping about those perfect scores as if that makes everyone elses complaints irrelevant.

You say they're trying to deflect the issue in a statement that says they're directly addressing the issue with a free DLC. You say that they'll only accept "tame" constructive criticism and directly acknowledge that they said they're listening to their passionate fans. Instead of trying to figure out what they're saying perhaps you should listen to what they actually say.

Anyway, as nothing new has been said for a while now and your sources fell through, I'm fine with leaving this here. If you can provide a source where Bioware actually insults the fans, and not one where you believe they insulted the fans based on things they never said but that you believe they said, then I'll probably continue this with you.

It wasn't evident to you yet plenty of other people thought so. Hence their anger. Hence the many remarks upon their anger. Are you getting this?

It's passive-aggressive; not flying into tantrums and swearing constantly, like you assume my beef is about.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

You say they're trying to deflect the issue in a statement that says they're directly addressing the issue with a free DLC. You say that they'll only accept "tame" constructive criticism and directly acknowledge that they said they're listening to their passionate fans. Instead of trying to figure out what they're saying perhaps you should listen to what they actually say.

Welcome to PR Doublespeak.

... where everything must have a second meaning or implication and everyone's itching to attack the speaker if they don't capitulate. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 24 juin 2013 - 04:37 .

[SilJeff]

I'm fine with the endings, but I understand some aren't.

I just think whining about it for a whole year after they at least gave us closure in EC is just wasting breath. I don't care if 5 minutes was not as good as the previous 100 hours. 1% not great is still 99% great.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I gave up hope after the EC came out.

[Oni Changas]

"Clarity and closure."

[Savage Baird]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Looking at the response to the ending and PR fallout.

BW sounded insulted that fans didn't like their ending.

The PR made me feel as though BW resented the fans. 

They asked for 'fan feedback' and promptly started plugging their fingers into their ears and saying "NAH NAH NAH! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE US, WE'RE BIOWARE!"

It was very shocking to see the responses from a company that I used to greatly respect.

I never understood why Michael Gamble, I think it was, said that BioWare never expected us to get so emotionally attatched to the characters.

Are you retarded, Mr. Gamble?

Modifié par Savage Baird, 24 juin 2013 - 05:04 .

[Wolfva2]

Lessee...when did I realize there was no hope of redeeming the ending? Oh, I'd say it was back in the early 70s, when I was a wee child and I realized that the AUTHORS have NO FREAKING OBLIGATION to write what *I* want them to. That the endings THEY chose was up to them. That I, as an end user, could enjoy it, could hate it. That it was MY decision whether or not to buy the product, or any future products, but that it would be petulant and childish to demand they re-write everything just to make ME happy.

I see people arguing about 'offense' OK. Lemme dust this ole missive off.

There are 3 general reasons why someone is offensive.
1) They are trying to anger you. Well, someone who is trying to anger you doesn't have your best interest at heart. People who don't have your best interest at heart are called 'enemies'; do you always do what your enemy wants? Probably not; there is no reason to be offended because that is what THEY want. Defeat your enemies; don't give them what they want.
2) Ignorance. The person doesn't know they're being offensive. Well, sheesh! Why be offended then? Politely explain why what they said was offensive, then move on with your life!
3) Indifference. The person couldn't care less about you or your feelings. Well, why be offended? They're not going to care. Much ado about nothing.

So, there really is no reason to be offended. Offense is something that you CHOOSE to feel. If you're offended, it's because YOU wanted to be offended.

[AlanC9]

brettc893 wrote...

 By redeeming I mean, all of the brilliant fan theories that would have made everything better ending up wrong, a grand expansion never coming, things of that nature.

I'm gonna have to go with as soon as Omega came out.  

During the pre-EC debates. Not only were most of the fan theories awful, many of them were plainly opposed to the design intent. That wasn't happening.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

The actions are the same.  The context is the same, The outcomes are the same.

The problems were not addressed.

You remember the old saw about God answering all prayers, right?

Sometimes the answer is "No."

Having said that, it wouldn't have been a bad thing for Bio to say that they understood that some players didn't like the morality of the choices presented in the endgame, etc., but that they had decided that their vision was correct and they were standing by it. It's the substance of their position, so they might as well have been explicit. Especially good if they could have done this early enough to prevent Puzzle Theory from deluding anyone.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 juin 2013 - 05:20 .