865 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

WolfyZA wrote...

brettc893 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

brettc893 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's and yet people herald as the best game of this generation.

Well that's absolute bull**** that hurts my brain to even look at, but alright.

It has a pretty grim end dude. It is rather emotionally unfulfilling, just like ME3. 

Oh right on, totally.

SPOILERS FOR THE LAST OF US DO NOT LOOK UNLESS READY

I AM WARNING YOU

A broken barbaric man selfishly choosing the life of the young girl whom he sees as a replacement for the daughter he lost over the survival of the entire human race is not only bad writing, but hilariously terrible character development, I mean, it's not as though you watched their incredibly realistic and touching relationship evolve over the course of 20 hours. Never mind that it gives the title of the game meaning. It's also completely comparable to the nonsensical cluster**** that was ME3 .

/Blatant Sarcasm 

Most people missed the point of the last of us. Why save the human race when they tried to kill both Joel and Ellie numberous times. The human race didnt deserved saving from my point of view.

And I don't believe Joel and Ellie deserved saving. I for one believe that they were being selfish. 2 people are not more important than 2 billion people.

I do chalk it up to a difference in morals personally.

[NeonFlux117]

WolfyZA wrote...

brettc893 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

brettc893 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's and yet people herald as the best game of this generation.

Well that's absolute bull**** that hurts my brain to even look at, but alright.

It has a pretty grim end dude. It is rather emotionally unfulfilling, just like ME3. 

Oh right on, totally.

SPOILERS FOR THE LAST OF US DO NOT LOOK UNLESS READY

I AM WARNING YOU

A broken barbaric man selfishly choosing the life of the young girl whom he sees as a replacement for the daughter he lost over the survival of the entire human race is not only bad writing, but hilariously terrible character development, I mean, it's not as though you watched their incredibly realistic and touching relationship evolve over the course of 20 hours. Never mind that it gives the title of the game meaning. It's also completely comparable to the nonsensical cluster**** that was ME3 .

/Blatant Sarcasm 

Most people missed the point of the last of us. Why save the human race when they tried to kill both Joel and Ellie numberous times. The human race didnt deserved saving from my point of view.

ding ding ding, we got a winner here. Yep, this is my opinion too. I thought Joel made the right choice. And clearly the game shows you over and over again that the world of The Last of Us isn't deserving of redemption and saving. Glad someone else got it. 

[The Night Mammoth]

I'd like to say I was surprised to find Eterna5 flamebaiting the thread by talking about the Last of Us.

I'd like to say that.

Anyway, beyond redemption? When I started talking about it with friends and discovered they had similar opinions to my own. If it was just me then maybe I would have had a little hope that someone could explain it or maybe I could play it again and it would all fit.

[Bizinha]

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's and yet people herald it as the best game of this generation.

Guess Bioware fans are just weird. 

Nope... I love the ending of Last of us... ND made ​​a consistent and surprising end. Nothing Deus ex, choose your color, etc.

[WolfyZA]

Bizinha wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's and yet people herald it as the best game of this generation.

Guess Bioware fans are just weird. 

Nope... I love the ending of Last of us... ND made ​​a consistent and surprising end. Nothing Deus ex, choose your color, etc.

Running with Ellie in your arms while trying to escape the hospital gives you the feeling of urgency and fear... Unlike ME 3... First the running to the beam was like.. DO OR DIE!!!!.. Then later your like.. Ok the urgency is gone now, look they threw some "The Matrix" limbo in to confuse fans into thinking the ending is all sophisticated!

When infact it was all BS!!!

When comparing TLOU "bland ending" with ME 3's "awesome OMGZ ending". You'll notice Mass Effect 3 is missing one curcial thing... "narative coherence".

Go search it up if you dont know what it means. God knows Mac Walters and Casey Hudson should.

Modifié par WolfyZA, 24 juin 2013 - 12:57 .

[Dubozz]

Yes more last of us spoilers please.

[WolfyZA]

Dubozz wrote...

Yes more last of us spoilers please.

BIG SPOILER!!! A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED!!!

[Bizinha]

 

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I find it weird how the Last of us has an ending that is arguably worse than ME3's and yet people herald it as the best game of this generation.

Guess Bioware fans are just weird. 

Or the fact that those are two separate games

So what? Principle is the same. Tons of emotional investment, then a sudden and unfullfilling ending. 

Except for the fact that it was a fullfilling and emotional ending for the players, where the ME3 endings didn't do that for them

Not really. Joel dooms humanity because he is too selfish to lose another daughter, then he lies to that daughters face because he knows she would have sacrificed herself. Then they proceed to live in a hovel for the rest of their lives.

I mean I liked it, but it wasn't really a feel good ending. 

Spoilers, bro. Warn people, as I am about to. SPOILERS FOR LAST OF US ENDING




First, there is no proof of a cure, nor that it would work. The Fireflyers hinged hope on a speculative miracle and when desperate, hope can lead to irrationality, a flaw Joel was equally susceptible to. Regardless of the possibility, Ellie had become a surrogate daughter to him; their emotional growth being a focal point of the story. He could not abandon, losing his daughter all over again. 

Was it selfish? Undoubtedly, but that is the mastery of the scene. Human beings are flawed and often victim of their own emotion. Under the circumstances, with no way to be certain, Joel acted with a father's instinct. I can tell you now were it my daughter, I would wage the bloodiest war imaginable if it meant saving her life. She's my girl and nothing short of death will stop me.

Is that rational? No, not in the slightest. But it is human.

SPOILERS HAVE ENDED


ME3's ending lacks even the semblance of emotion. We spend the conclusion talking to a character introduced a mere five minutes ago, who is subsequently revealed to be the primary antagonist and our only salvation comes by him allowing it. The narrative provides no context, explanation or reason why, we simply have to accept the logic, or lack thereof, thrown our way. 

Both are grim, but Last of Us actually know what matters - the characters and the story. ME3 forgot that.

SPOILERS FOR LAST OF US 

The main theme of TLoU is "loss": Loss of innocence and the parents of Ellie, the loss of the daughter of Joel and how it shapes your personality, and especially the relationship he has with Ellie, the widespread loss of confidence, as with the bill, the immediate loss of someone loved and how each person reacts differently, for example, that Henry does not support his brother's death, and especially the loss of humanity, which directly influences the moral decision Joel at the end of the game: why should he lose again someone who loves you for a humanity that does not even know for sure if it deserves more continue to exist?

I hoped someone would die at the end. When Joel showed the car alone, I felt sad for a second. Ellie :crying:

Dubozz wrote...

Yes more last of us spoilers please.

Yes, we need a spoiler tag.

[WolfyZA]

Well the hospital part isnt really a spoiler... More of a preparation for whats to come. Might as well say its a spoiler as well on how the game begins.

Modifié par WolfyZA, 24 juin 2013 - 01:10 .

[Ajensis]

Dubozz wrote...

Yes more last of us spoilers please.

Yeah, that's pretty inexcusable for a game that's only just released. And the involved parties haven't even bothered to edit their posts after being made aware of it. If I hadn't finished the game this weekend, I would've been so incredibly annoyed. You're effectively ruining someone's experience of what they might otherwise find to be a great game.

Not a nice or respectful thing to do to your fellow gamers.

Anyway, as to the topic at hand: I think I held on to a glimmer of hope until the last DLC was announced. It was a very small glimmer, though, after the description (and, later, release) of the Extended Cut.

[angol fear]

WolfyZA wrote...

When comparing TLOU "bland ending" with ME 3's "awesome OMGZ ending". You'll notice Mass Effect 3 is missing one curcial thing... "narative coherence".

Go search it up if you dont know what it means. God knows Mac Walters and Casey Hudson should.

Missing "narrative coherence"? Mass Effect 3 (original ending) is actually one of the few games in the video game history that have narrative coherence. Story and narration are not the same things. You can dislike the ending for its story but not for its narration (or it's just that you don't know what narration is).

[Nykara]

brettc893 wrote...

 By redeeming I mean, all of the brilliant fan theories that would have made everything better ending up wrong, a grand expansion never coming, things of that nature.

I'm gonna have to go with as soon as Omega came out.  

Mine pretty much went with the last DLC. Got a feeling that'll be my last ever ME play through.  I played it through when I first got it. Hated the ending. Played it again when the Citadel DLC came out, loved that DLC, finally saw the EC ending which was Ok, not great but OK. Still hate how it actually ended, thus no more ME for me. Until then, I was holding on to at least a small amount of hope that there was still a chance - clearly there isn't one now as they are done with all ME3 production.

[Erez Kristal]

The problem was never just the ending, it was the entire main story arch. this is why they could never really do something meaningful about the ending at least not in the same game.

The mess started at the begining when you discover that shepard has been captured and spent the last six monthes doing nothing. when the reapers arrive, its pretty much game over unless you have the crucible.

To make things worse, cerberus is now the sith and are at full war with everyone, the quarrians and the geth have both destroyed half their ships and you are dealing with fools on a daily basis. batarians completly wiped out.
Edit: and also do not forget the rachni, if you let them live they are also going to fight against you.
As if the reapers werent enough...

The ending was the ending this game deserved.

Modifié par erezike, 24 juin 2013 - 02:00 .

[Erez Kristal]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Psychevore wrote...

My God, just let it go already, it's been well over a year.

Accept the endings, or never play a Bioware game again. Throw your ME game discs out of the window, or if you're angry enough, throw them at somebody cutting their neck in half.

Or use them on your own neck

But for God's sake's stop trying to convince people that the endings suck and that Bioware should do something about it. These are their endings, whether you like it or not. There will never be a happy end.

Oh I'm well aware they aren't gonna change the ending, they've made that abundantly clear.


I'm still gonna complain about it to my heart's content though, regardless of imput.

Amen

[Steelcan]

I've gotten over the ending. I enjoy the rest of the game enough to replay it, and I've been able to explain away the less appealing aspects.

[nos_astra]

angol fear wrote...
Missing "narrative coherence"? Mass Effect 3 (original ending) is actually one of the few games in the video game history that have narrative coherence. Story and narration are not the same things. You can dislike the ending for its story but not for its narration (or it's just that you don't know what narration is).

Narration seems to have several meanings. 

And the ending does quite a few things wrong. I'm pretty sure you can justifiably dislike it for its story and narration.

[Nykara]

StreetMagic wrote...

A part of me thinks Bioware is just conducting a social experiment. Create a controversial ending just to get players fighting and arguing with each other (and arguing with Bioware themselves). I also think they did it with Dragon Age 2. Why I don't know. Maybe someone there actually believes that bad press is still good press. Only thing that doesn't make sense is that they could have simply made a solid game and had good press to begin with. Controversy seems like a roundabout way to get people talking.

This is the first time I have actually made it back to look at the Bioware forums in a couple of months. Used to check almost daily.  As much as I have enjoyed the journey through some of Biowares games, I hate how they end them which ruins my replay value so I'm kinda done. Any future titles picked up by me are going to be way down the track when they are sitting in a store somewhere for cheap because they are considered to be old games. I loved KOTOR and ME1 + 2 but that seems to be the end of the line.

[AlanC9]

I1 Trust wrote...
I wish people would stop using this gif.

Some memes take a while to burn out.

[CrutchCricket]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

When they said that the EC would add but not change the ending - without axing Starchild, the game is salvageable - i.e. when they first announced the EC.

Yep. And moreover, when the EC announcement was brilliantly timed right after a con, and Retake/Hold the Line/whatever imploded and turned on themselves, rending the opposition and devolving into something the media could laugh at while Bioware got undeserved credit for "listening". 

I know they only care about their bottom line but when I saw that, all I could think was:



gg Bioware you manipulative bastards. You won, we lost, and gaming will now be poorer for it. For the precedent you set, even if you did so unknowingly and with truly good intentions.

[dreamgazer]

AlanC9 wrote...

I1 Trust wrote...
I wish people would stop using this gif.

Some memes take a while to burn out.

That one won't burn out until people actually watch the movie and realize/get what they're doing.

[Iakus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

gg Bioware you manipulative bastards. You won, we lost, and gaming will now be poorer for it. For the precedent you set, even if you did so unknowingly and with truly good intentions.

And sadly, the Montreal team will pay the price when the next Mass Effect game is met with suspicion and cynicism.  They didn't cause the problem, but now they're left holding the bag.

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

A part of me thinks Bioware is just conducting a social experiment. Create a controversial ending just to get players fighting and arguing with each other (and arguing with Bioware themselves). I also think they did it with Dragon Age 2. Why I don't know. Maybe someone there actually believes that bad press is still good press. Only thing that doesn't make sense is that they could have simply made a solid game and had good press to begin with. Controversy seems like a roundabout way to get people talking.

Actually, their press is consistently good. They get some negative fan reviews, but if they really do think that's from the "entitled whiner" demographic it won't bother them.

My hypothesis is that it's a combination of two things. First,  Bio ended up believing their own press releases, and convinced themselves that their games are all about making hard choices rather than getting out of making the hard choices. Second, I suspect that a lot of the staff are hipster elitists like me who enjoy moral ambiguity, irony, downer endings, and so forth.

I've read on the DA3 board that David Gaider says peace at Rannoch shouldn't have been an option. I didn't see that for myself, though.