155 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

Agreed. I was really surprised with Belhen ( supposed to be the " bad guy " ) and Harrowmont ( " good guy " ) outcomes. Well done Bioware ! That seemed strangely... realistic !

I. want. more.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2013 - 12:47 .

[wolfhowwl]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That depends on the story. If the story is something like...I dunno...Kane and Lynch, I'm perfectly fine with there never being a right choice.

However, for a story with clear heroic themes that promises a powerful, competent protagonist and choices that matter...I want a right choice almost always.

.  There are right choices, theres usually two.

[Steelcan]

So who else liked Behlen from the get go?

[AresKeith]

Steelcan wrote...

So who else liked Behlen from the get go?

I don't like either of them, I chose Bhelem as a necessary evil that can benefit the Dwarfs with his "progressive" view

[Sylvianus]

The first time I didn't like Belhen, but I didn't pay any attention to him to be honest. It's after that I discovered who he really was in the game and I felt in love for his character. A true King, the one Orzammar needs unlike Harrowmont.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2013 - 12:55 .

[AresKeith]

Sylvianus wrote...

The first time I didn't like Belhen, but I didn't pay any attention to him to be honest. It's after that I discovered who he really was in the game and I felt in love for his character. A true King, the one Orzammar needs unlike Harrowmont.

Harrowmont has potential but his views on staying with Tradition wouldn't benefit the Dwarves in the long run

[Sylvianus]

AresKeith wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The first time I didn't like Belhen, but I didn't pay any attention to him to be honest. It's after that I discovered who he really was in the game and I felt in love for his character. A true King, the one Orzammar needs unlike Harrowmont.

Harrowmont has potential but his views on staying with Tradition wouldn't benefit the Dwarves in the long run

Yep, that's exactly what I think. I like him. But Harrowmont would be only an excellent administrator to me.

[R0vena]

What did I miss? What downfall of Orzammar are we talking about? As far as I understood Harrowmont left things practically exactly as they were before?

[Sylvianus]

There are several outcomes. And the dwarf kingdom is in the process of decline. Doing nothing is a crime, that's exactly what has done Harrowmont.

[AresKeith]

Personally if I was able to convince Harrowmont to adopt Bhelen's view, I would've chose him

[SlottsMachine]

I chose Zaeed.

[R0vena]

Well, to be honest, I always thought Bhelen would get assassinated soon for his reforms or his ruthlessness so Bioware will have Orzammar in the state they want for the future (kind of like Anora or Alistair having no heirs). And in the reality he will rule no longer than Harrowmont and thus would have no long term consequences.

[Ianamus]

I'm inclined to agree with the people who said that Bhelen/Harrowmont was a very poor choice in hindsight.

I'm not sure that giving us two political options, painting one as really competent, nice and forward thinking and another as really bad and then completely going against everything we were told when making the decision and reverse the roles afterward is something to be praised.

It's like giving someone a choice between a cake or a raw fish and then praising the choice for being unpredictable when the people who chose the cake get a raw fish and the people who chose the raw fish get a cake.

I want decisions to be difficult because the decisions themselves are difficult, not because the information we are given when making the choice is incorrect. 

Modifié par EJ107, 27 juin 2013 - 01:13 .

[Sylvianus]

Meh. I think some people are just upset because the " nice guy ", wasn't the hero, the marvellous king they expected him to be because he is "noble ". I was myself convinced that Harrowmont would have a marvellous outcome. I was so glad I was wrong. ( and I chose him in my first playthrought )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2013 - 01:29 .

[Ianamus]

Sylvianus wrote...

Meh. I think some people are just upset because the " nice guy ", wasn't the hero, the marvellous hing they expected him to be. I was myself convinced that Harrowmont would have a marvellous outcome. I was so glad I was wrong.

No, I was annoyed because the Bhelen/Harrowmont choice in hindsight is a choice between an unlikeable ruler with good policies and a kind ruler with poor policies. 

This is a fine choice to give, but it is only in hindsight. When actually playing the game for the first time and making the decision there is almost nothing indicating that Bhelen has better policies, nothing stating that he plans to help the casteless and improve relations with the outside world. 

Instead everyone you speak to paints Bhelen as a tyrranical ruler who will be no good on the throne. I don't see how a choice is "realistic" or a "marvellous outcome" when it just turns out in the end that the guy everyone said was was bad, nobody had a good word for and seemed to have no redeeming policies worth rooting for turns out to be the messiah who will lead the dwarves to a better future. 

Had it been stated clearly in-game what Bhelens policies were and what he planned to do when he was ruler then we would have had the information required to make an informed choice. But we were not, everything painted him as the worse candidate. 

If this is your idea of a realistic choice then when someone campaigns for leadership of your country and appears to be worse than the other candidates in every way you should definitely vote for them- because it will turn out that actually they are best ruler after all. Completely realistic. 

Modifié par EJ107, 27 juin 2013 - 01:36 .

[Sylvianus]

EJ107 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Meh. I think some people are just upset because the " nice guy ", wasn't the hero, the marvellous hing they expected him to be. I was myself convinced that Harrowmont would have a marvellous outcome. I was so glad I was wrong.

No, I was annoyed because the Bhelen/Harrowmont choice in hindsight is a choice between an unlikeable ruler with good policies and a kind ruler with poor policies. 

This is a fine choice to give, but it is only in hindsight. When actually playing the game for the first time and making the decision there is almost nothing indicating that Bhelen has better policies, nothing stating that he plans to help the casteless and improve relations with the outside world. 

Instead everyone you speak to paints Bhelen as a tyrranical ruler who will be no good on the throne. I don't see how a choice is "realistic" or a "marvellous outcome" when it just turns out in the end that the guy everyone said was was bad, nobody had a good word for and seemed to have no redeeming policies worth rooting for turns out to be the messiah who will lead the dwarves to a better future. 

Had it been stated clearly in-game what Bhelens policies were and what he planned to do when he was ruler then we would have had the information required to make an informed choice. But we were not, everything painted him as the worse candidate. 

Yes, there are people who tell to you that Belhen is a visionary who defends the non-castes, supports trade with the surface, that he is a reformist, strong, and he is not afraid of the assembly of nobles. Simply few people pay attention to what his supporters say because of overt violence he uses.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2013 - 01:42 .

[Ianamus]

Sylvianus wrote...

Yes, there are people who tell to you that Belhen is a visionary who defends the non-castes, supports trade with the surface, that he is a reformist, strong, and he is not afraid of the assembly of nobles. Simply few people pay attention to what his supporters say because of overt violence he uses.

I've played through Origins twice and the only time I ever saw these mentioned was when somebody told me that he is attatched to the casteless mother of his child, or something along those lines. That was the only time I heard anything about his relations with the casteless, and I don't remember hearing anything about wanting to open up trade with the surface.

On the other hand people everywhere were praising Harrowmont. Making the decision based from that I can see why the majority chose Harrowmont first time. Bhelens case was just not put forward the same way, or at all, if you didn't happen to find and speak to the three or so people who actually support him. 

Modifié par EJ107, 27 juin 2013 - 01:49 .

[Reaverwind]

Steelcan wrote...

So who else liked Behlen from the get go?

I didn't like either candidate, but Bhelen's response to bluntness was refreshing. I also felt he was better for the Wardens - he appeared to be more pro-active as far as the Darkspawn were concerned. Yes, he's a bastard, but the "honorable" guy had a distinct lack of vision.

[BlueMagitek]

Harrowmont is a perfectly fine option, especially if you save the Anvil.

Harrowmont, solving the Darkspawn and the Casteless problem in one go!

[Sylvianus]

EJ107 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yes, there are people who tell to you that Belhen is a visionary who defends the non-castes, supports trade with the surface, that he is a reformist, strong, and he is not afraid of the assembly of nobles. Simply few people pay attention to what his supporters say because of overt violence he uses.

I've played through Origins twice and the only time I ever saw these mentioned was when somebody told me that he he is attatched to the casteless mother of his child, or something along those lines. That was the only time I heard anything about his relations with the casteless, and I don't remember hearing anything about wanting to open up trade with the surface.

On the other hand people everywhere were praising Harrowmont. Making the decision based from that I can see why the majority chose Harrowmont first time. Bhelens case was just not put forward the same way, or at all, if you didn't happen to find and speak to the three or so people who actually support him. 

There's at least one merchant  in Orzammar who supports Belhen, ask him why he supports Belhen, and why he doesn't like Harrowmont. The way the merchant is portraying negatively Harrowmont is pretty much what will happen if he becomes King by the way. 

But I agree that Harrowmont was maybe portrayed too positively compared to Belhen...

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2013 - 01:59 .

[SamFlagg]

While the Harrowmont\\Behlen choice is interesting I look at it more as "I could expect Harrowmont to probably not secretly stab me in the back or anything like that. I value that in an ally, as far as the Dwarves being worse off. I couldn't care less, I've got a blight to stop."

[Sylvianus]

Moreover, the fact that Belhen dares to love a casteless, ready to accept the child of his beloved, despite the disgrace proves his strength, his independence from old dwarf obsolete traditions

[BlueMagitek]

That is Dwarvern Tradition though, because the child was a boy. That's the entire reason behind Noble Hunters. >_>