369 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...


Undeniable FACT: EC is way much more emotional and fulfilling then Mehem. Funny thing is that some people who hate headcanoning actually play Mehem which is 100% fun made ergo heacanon!
EC saved the trilogy. And all these asspull plotholes about the catalast... whay is so hard to understand?
Some People choose on purpose to find plotholes and they do, plotholes are there only if someone choses to search and make them.
I am fine with speculations, i cannot find plotholes anymore.
This whole complaining thing is such a disservice for Bioware.

You need to look up the definition of a fact.  Most people learn it in school.

Look up the word disservice too.  You'll find that it really isn't the customer's job to service a company.

Anyway, if you like the ending, fine.  But your post is silly.  If you meant it to be that way, then fine.

What he wrote is a fact, though. So there's that.

No he didn't. He wrote an opinion. Look up what fact and opinion are before you make yourself look like an utter fool.

[Mr.House]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...


Undeniable FACT: EC is way much more emotional and fulfilling then Mehem. Funny thing is that some people who hate headcanoning actually play Mehem which is 100% fun made ergo heacanon!
EC saved the trilogy. And all these asspull plotholes about the catalast... whay is so hard to understand?
Some People choose on purpose to find plotholes and they do, plotholes are there only if someone choses to search and make them.
I am fine with speculations, i cannot find plotholes anymore.
This whole complaining thing is such a disservice for Bioware.

You need to look up the definition of a fact.  Most people learn it in school.

Look up the word disservice too.  You'll find that it really isn't the customer's job to service a company.

Anyway, if you like the ending, fine.  But your post is silly.  If you meant it to be that way, then fine.

... by emotional i also include frustation, anger, sadness, accomplisment , surprise. Mehem is a just that: Happy ending mod. This is why i say it is a fact.
Fans do a diservice to bioware who actually took into consideration most (or many if you wish ) of our complaints and bothered to change the ending. Cause it DID change, even if they dio not admit it.
Bioware was not obliged to do this. They "had"  already our money.

I felt sadness and accomplisment in MEHEM.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Well I certainly don't agree with the idea that criticism toward BW is a disservice - it's not.

And not all criticism needs to be construed in a positive constructive way, like BW likes to think.

Coming from my military background, I am actually a firm believer in negative constructive criticism.

When I tell BW that something they do sucks, I rather think it would make sense to address why I think it sucks as well (which I do). Not every idea is a good idea.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...


Undeniable FACT: EC is way much more emotional and fulfilling then Mehem. Funny thing is that some people who hate headcanoning actually play Mehem which is 100% fun made ergo heacanon!
EC saved the trilogy. And all these asspull plotholes about the catalast... whay is so hard to understand?
Some People choose on purpose to find plotholes and they do, plotholes are there only if someone choses to search and make them.
I am fine with speculations, i cannot find plotholes anymore.
This whole complaining thing is such a disservice for Bioware.

You need to look up the definition of a fact.  Most people learn it in school.

Look up the word disservice too.  You'll find that it really isn't the customer's job to service a company.

Anyway, if you like the ending, fine.  But your post is silly.  If you meant it to be that way, then fine.

What he wrote is a fact, though. So there's that.

No he didn't. He wrote an opinion. Look up what fact and opinion are before you make yourself look like an utter fool.

As much as I agree with you, your assertion is going to fall on deaf ears.

[Mr.House]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...


Undeniable FACT: EC is way much more emotional and fulfilling then Mehem. Funny thing is that some people who hate headcanoning actually play Mehem which is 100% fun made ergo heacanon!
EC saved the trilogy. And all these asspull plotholes about the catalast... whay is so hard to understand?
Some People choose on purpose to find plotholes and they do, plotholes are there only if someone choses to search and make them.
I am fine with speculations, i cannot find plotholes anymore.
This whole complaining thing is such a disservice for Bioware.

You need to look up the definition of a fact.  Most people learn it in school.

Look up the word disservice too.  You'll find that it really isn't the customer's job to service a company.

Anyway, if you like the ending, fine.  But your post is silly.  If you meant it to be that way, then fine.

What he wrote is a fact, though. So there's that.

No he didn't. He wrote an opinion. Look up what fact and opinion are before you make yourself look like an utter fool.

As much as I agree with you, your assertion is going to fall on deaf ears.

I'm simply stating a fact about facts vs opinions. Not my fault people misunderstand what a fact is.

[Zazzerka]

Mr.House wrote...

I'm simply stating a fact about facts vs opinions. Not my fault people misunderstand what a fact is.

Don't kid yourself - he knows exactly what it is. He's just a withered old man trying to rustle one more jimmy before he burns out completely.

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...


They are trivial in a way, but in another way - specifically when discussing endings on this board - it can actually be quite important the words one uses. Genocide, by its very ontology, is unforgivable. It's a term created to label and prosecute the worst offenders of human rights in history. Genocide is therefore a word that people use to preclude good-faith discussions of the morality of the endings. Oh, you're okay with genocide? Fine, pick destroy. No, it's fine, it just means you don't think the geth are really alive. And on and on it goes.

How do you feel about your chances of a beneficial discussion when someone storms into a Control thread and asks why everyone is okay with being Space-Hitlers? Same thing.

This is the old Orwell argument, right? Language being used to stop thought rather than promote it. 

I see the point.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Zazzerka wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I'm simply stating a fact about facts vs opinions. Not my fault people misunderstand what a fact is.

Don't kid yourself - he knows exactly what it is. He's just a withered old man trying to rustle one more jimmy before he burns out completely.

Why do you insist on turning this into a personal beef? 

[ioannisdenton]

Mr.House wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...


Undeniable FACT: EC is way much more emotional and fulfilling then Mehem. Funny thing is that some people who hate headcanoning actually play Mehem which is 100% fun made ergo heacanon!
EC saved the trilogy. And all these asspull plotholes about the catalast... whay is so hard to understand?
Some People choose on purpose to find plotholes and they do, plotholes are there only if someone choses to search and make them.
I am fine with speculations, i cannot find plotholes anymore.
This whole complaining thing is such a disservice for Bioware.

You need to look up the definition of a fact.  Most people learn it in school.

Look up the word disservice too.  You'll find that it really isn't the customer's job to service a company.

Anyway, if you like the ending, fine.  But your post is silly.  If you meant it to be that way, then fine.

... by emotional i also include frustation, anger, sadness, accomplisment , surprise. Mehem is a just that: Happy ending mod. This is why i say it is a fact.
Fans do a diservice to bioware who actually took into consideration most (or many if you wish ) of our complaints and bothered to change the ending. Cause it DID change, even if they dio not admit it.
Bioware was not obliged to do this. They "had"  already our money.

I felt sadness and accomplisment in MEHEM.

i did not say MEHEM does not make you feel anything, i said that EC makes you feel more emotional. You may not like the feelings EC gives but i bet you all do feel "more" in EC although you won't admit it.
Let's not turn this thread into this argument. Leave it be here.

[GreyLycanTrope]

ioannisdenton wrote...
i did not say MEHEM does not make you feel anything, i said that EC makes you feel more emotional. You may not like the feelings EC gives but i bet you all do feel "more" in EC although you won't admit it.
Let's not turn this thread into this argument. Leave it be here.

Funny thing about "feels" is their subjective nature and how not everyone reacts the same way to them. YMMV as far as the EC and MEHEM goes, I personally find them to be on par as far as emotional investment goes. Fact.

[Zazzerka]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Why do you insist on turning this into a personal beef?

There's nothing personal about it. I was defending you. I refuse to believe that anyone is actually stupid or bullheaded enough that they can't discern the difference between an opinion and a fact.

[KaiserShep]

ioannisdenton wrote...
But doesn't it make sense in destroy since it targets synthetics? Think of it like an Emp.

No, it really doesn't make sense at all. It can't work like an EMP, because anything so imprecise would simply destroy all forms of technology, not just synthetics. There's nothing special about the geth and EDI in terms of hardware. However, there IS something unique about the reapers. Unlike EDI and the geth, the reapers are not basic hardware when broken down to their fundamentals, because of the nature of their construction. This was completely ignored so that their deaths could be tacked on to make Shepard insist that there has to be another way to stop the reapers.

The fact that the reapers can be targeted alone by Control only makes this worse. "Destroy" could just as well have been written as a wave that flashes the reapers' consciousness, so it simply wipes their minds into oblivion and they just drop dead. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 29 juin 2013 - 05:12 .

[ioannisdenton]

KaiserShep wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...
But doesn't it make sense in destroy since it targets synthetics? Think of it like an Emp.

No, it really doesn't make sense at all. It can't work like an EMP, because anything so imprecise would simply destroy all forms of technology, not just synthetics. There's nothing special about the geth and EDI in terms of hardware. However, there IS something unique about the reapers. Unlike EDI and the geth, the reapers are not basic hardware when broken down to their fundamentals, because of the nature of their construction. This was completely ignored so that their deaths could be tacked on to make Shepard insist that there has to be another way to stop the reapers.

in my humble opinion you are overthinking it.
I agree that if only reapers got killed then all would chose destroy . There had to be a drawback. Were i a writer i too would have inlcuded a drawback.
But at the same time you are stating this with real world logic. Is this logic for real in the mass effect lore? Mass effect has rules of it's own, i do not suppose they are altered by the implications of destroy ening though.

[Iakus]

[quote]ioannisdenton wrote...

No, it really doesn't make sense at all. It can't work like an EMP, because anything so imprecise would simply destroy all forms of technology, not just synthetics. There's nothing special about the geth and EDI in terms of hardware. However, there IS something unique about the reapers. Unlike EDI and the geth, the reapers are not basic hardware when broken down to their fundamentals, because of the nature of their construction. This was completely ignored so that their deaths could be tacked on to make Shepard insist that there has to be another way to stop the reapers.[/quote]
in my humble opinion you are overthinking it.
I agree that if only reapers got killed then all would chose destroy . There had to be a drawback. Were i a writer i too would have inlcuded a drawback.
But at the same time you are stating this with real world logic. Is this logic for real in the mass effect lore? Mass effect has rules of it's own, i do not suppose they are altered by the implications of destroy ening though.

[/quote]

The drawback is ther is no Reaper power at your disposal

There is no Reaper knowledge at your fingertips.

The relays are fried and it's up to the younger races to either fix them or learn to do without.

The races are allied for right now, but how long will it stay that way?

Those the drawbacks to destroying the Reapers.  Killing the geth and EDI is just a tacked on extra bit of cruelty to dissuade people.

[Mr.House]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Zazzerka wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I'm simply stating a fact about facts vs opinions. Not my fault people misunderstand what a fact is.

Don't kid yourself - he knows exactly what it is. He's just a withered old man trying to rustle one more jimmy before he burns out completely.

Why do you insist on turning this into a personal beef? 

Because basic school education shoulds teach you what opinions and facts are.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

There's probably more criticism within Bioware's own circle than they will ever admit. I just think they want to project this "can do no wrong artiste" facade to the public.

And that does a disservice to their audience

[KaiserShep]

ioannisdenton wrote...
in my humble opinion you are overthinking it. 
I agree that if only reapers got killed then all would chose destroy . There had to be a drawback. Were i a writer i too would have inlcuded a drawback. 
But at the same time you are stating this with real world logic. Is this logic for real in the mass effect lore? Mass effect has rules of it's own, i do not suppose they are altered by the implications of destroy ening though.

It's not the matter of there being a drawback, but rather that the drawback does not make any sense, even within its own internal logic. The "rules" are too vague in this case, since there's no explanation as to how the colored waves work or how the Crucible discerns EDI's hardware from the rest of the Normandy, or her software from the Normandy's vital computer systems, or even a surviving Shepard's synthetic implants (which gets a questionable mention by the Catalyst), and that's the problem. The logic within its own lore is broken. Too many things are ignored/dismissed for matters of convenience, and in the case of EDI and the geth, their deaths are essentially "They die because we say they do", rather than something that's organic to the process. The entire conversation with the Catalyst is symptomatic of these issues, because basic, common sense questions cannot exist here, or else it would only further illustrate how broken its logic truly is.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 29 juin 2013 - 05:35 .

[Mr.House]

KaiserShep wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...
in my humble opinion you are overthinking it. 
I agree that if only reapers got killed then all would chose destroy . There had to be a drawback. Were i a writer i too would have inlcuded a drawback. 
But at the same time you are stating this with real world logic. Is this logic for real in the mass effect lore? Mass effect has rules of it's own, i do not suppose they are altered by the implications of destroy ening though.

It's not the matter of there being a drawback, but rather that the drawback does not make any sense, even within its own internal logic. The "rules" are too vague in this case, since there's no explanation as to how the colored waves work or how the Crucible discerns EDI's hardware from the rest of the Normandy, or her software from the Normandy's vital computer systems, or even a surviving Shepard's synthetic implants, and that's the problem. The logic within its own lore is broken. Too many things are ignored/dismissed for matters of convenience, and in the case of EDI and the geth, their deaths are essentially "They die because we say they do", rather than something that's organic to the process. The entire conversation with the Catalyst is symptomatic of these issues, because basic, common sense questions cannot exist here, or else it would only further illustrate how broken its logic truly is.

Well said.

[Coyotebay]

It really boils down to the choices and their consequences at the end being wholly contrived, as opposed to evolving naturally through your decisions during the story.  They are all thrust at you out of thin air in the last ten minutes.