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[18 Brains]

Dextro Milk wrote...

I don't think Massive is racist in real life, I think his Shepard is. There is a difference, imo.

And honestly, what is going on in this thread?

Something about who you might choose as an XO, TIM 2.0, and a heap of unknowns.

darthrevaninlight wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

When I say that I'm willing to employ a similar mindset post-war, I don't mean that I'm going to use the same method(s). 

I will be a lot more conservative about how I utilize my resources in what manner in these ways. I'm not going to be starting deathcamps like everyone here thinks I am. 

However, the overall willingness to have such a utilitarian mindset won't change. I'm still willing to do what needs to be done when I really need to. 

But we're talking about finding more reasonable alternatives here before actually resorting to the darker stuff. I'm not going to go out of my way to kill people for science. In fact, I'll go out of my way to find solutions that don't end in death or suffering. 

To put it this way: The gun is still on the table, but it has been pushed way across to the other side. And I'm talking one of those big, long dinner tables that you see in a mansion or whatnot.

Why the hesitation, then? Wouldn't such tactics as employed during the Reaper War yield more results? 

I cannot help but draw a perhaps inacurrate correlation to the overused Hitler. I've seen the ****s as being similar to the kind of goals Cerberus had in mind. Genetic experiments as well as deciding who lived and who died, for the "greater good". 

In a way, Cerberus was its own government, its merits largely stemming from its ability to protect its citizens when the Human Governments could not. 

Humanity cannot see the future. They cannot determine what their actions will cause. I may flick the switch of my lightbulb to find that I have in fact flicked the switch of a bomb in Soviet Russia, causing thousands of Russian Citizens to die horrible deaths based on my mistake.

The exaggerated motif is towards a single point; humanity has limits. While we can know what we know, and know what we do not know, there is a third bracket of knowledge that we must be aware of or suffer terrible consequences; what we do not know that we do not know. 

This mysterious and unknowable portion of human knowledge is the reason why the Utilitarian Philosophy (Ends Justifies Means) is flawed. Humanity cannot see the ends of their actions; therefore, a human must instead ensure that their action, in the very moment that they commit it, is a good action. 

There is so much we can affect, and so much tragedy we can cause. 

Your methods may bring about the end of the Human Race long before they bring out the Glory of it.

I agree with this.  There needs to be a very strong basis for what is considered best for humanity and the galaxy the moment the action is made, not just for an event that *might* happen later down the road.

Also, to the citizens or people you might sacrifice, why not find a use for them instead?  We've all seen the difference a few great men and women can make in society on Earth, and in the Mass Effect games.  What's to say that there are those in the masses that couldn't do something great as well?  Every life has potential, and seeing one's potential reached can have a great effect on one's surrounding.  If anything, sacrifices such as those might simply be a waste of potential, whether in scientific contribution as was stated before, or in resource, even if it was simple labor.  Having someone alive and contributing to society is better than killing them on the basis of what might be.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

18 Brains wrote...
Also, to the citizens or people you might sacrifice, why not find a use for them instead?  We've all seen the difference a few great men and women can make in society on Earth, and in the Mass Effect games.  What's to say that there are those in the masses that couldn't do something great as well?  Every life has potential, and seeing one's potential reached can have a great effect on one's surrounding.  If anything, sacrifices such as those might simply be a waste of potential, whether in scientific contribution as was stated before, or in resource, even if it was simple labor.  Having someone alive and contributing to society is better than killing them on the basis of what might be.

I've already found a use for all the citizens I can. Read what I said about the economics and utility of the people.

Economic equilibrium. It counts for labor as well.

I don't disagree with your assertion, but it takes time and resources to encourage and nurture that growth of potential, two things that I have very little of against the Reapers.

Simply adding more and more labor doesn't fix the problem. Eventually, I'm going to reach equilibrium in every industry for the war effort.

That's when I have excess population. I can't protect them, I can't feed them, I can't use them. The cost of resources is simply too great. Against the Reapers, I need every resource I can get, but, even more importantly, I need to make sure that every resource is being properly utilized. And my resources are not being utilized wisely by spending them on defending, feeding, and training the excess populations.

These people who are left over, I really, really, really hate to say it, are useless. They're existence hampers my odds of defeating the Reapers, they literally get in the way of defeating the Reapers. I need to dispose of them.

As I said, the scorched Earth policy. They are a resource, but for not only me, but also the Reapers. And I can't have them being used by the Reapers.

The solution: To cull them. To wipe them out. It sucks. It really, really sucks. I really don't want to do it, but if I don't do it, I make it that much easier for the Reapers to complete their cycle.

And that is a far worse evil than anything I could ever do.

So these people are going to die right? They aren't useful to me alive, but maybe I can make them useful in death. That's where that basis for that philosophy comes from.

[RaenImrahl]

We seem to have drifted far off topic. Locked.