70 réponses à ce sujet

[nijnij]

A  humble request for Dragon Age : Inquisition ; it's pretty trivial but (I like to think) valid nonetheless.

In Dragon Age Origins, there was a locked chest in Ostagar that could not be opened ever if you hadn't rolled rogue. The one rogue in your party then is Daveth, who doesn't have the Deft Hands skill or sufficient cunning, even after levelling him up.

In Dragon Age II, right at the beginning, when escaping Lothering, you run into a locked chest. Unless you're a rogue yourself, there's no way to open it because there's no other rogue in your party at that point.

Of course, RPGs are very much about replayability, and different classes should have content exclusive to them. However, you shouldn't make the player feel early in the game (or at any point in the game for that matter) that s/he picked the "wrong" class. That's clumsy design.

I get it that picking locks is for stealthy, roguelike characters (somehow). I don't know that it makes so much sense nor do I see it as that fun a gameplay element to begin with (picking locks, now that's fantasy!), but it's just one of those genre cliches we all kind of embrace. You walk into a dungeon, want to open locked chests, bring your rogue. Fine. It's not actually a bad mechanic, brings that sense of "bonus" to exploration.

If I can't open a chest because I chose not to bring my rogue... my bad. I accept that. Now if I can't open a chest because I 'm not a rogue and the game gives me no alternative but to reroll or ignore said chest, and I happen to be something of a completionist... then that's just nagging!

So I beg you, dear Bioware... this time no locked chests before our first (handy) rogue (other than the player) is recruited. Because we completionists too like to sleep at night

Modifié par nijnij, 27 juin 2013 - 01:08 .

[David7204]

I agree.

Special bonuses for classes rarely feel like bonuses at all. They more often feel like you're just getting screwed over when you picked the wrong class.

Class is not a meaningful choice. There's no way a player can possibily guess the consequences of being a certain class when they begin the game. It's a dice roll. It's "you weren't able to magically divine which class you should have picked six hours ago so you lose."

It's 10x worse when class affects the story. Particularly if a player feels obligated to play a class they don't enjoy at all but feel is necessary for the story.

Modifié par David7204, 27 juin 2013 - 12:15 .

[Rixatrix]

I've seen suggestions for a Warrior’s "Smash" option that maybe damages some items in the chest, and a Mage's spell for opening locks. Having to spend your first talent point on an unlock spell instead of, say, Winter's Grasp seems like sacrifice enough.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Class is not a meaningful choice. There's no way a player can possibily guess the consequences of being a certain class when they begin the game. It's a dice roll. It's "you weren't able to magically divine which class you should have picked six hours ago so you lose."

It's 10x worse when class affects the story. Particularly if a player feels obligated to play a class they don't enjoy at all but feel is necessary for the story.

This is wrong in so many ways.


Choosing a class = choosing a playstyle for yourself. It's a VERY meaningful choice, one of the most meaninful of all.

Having multiple classes means having more replay value (replaying the game with each class). Classes also offer different ways of playing the game, allowing every gamer to pick a class which suits there preferences and playstyle. Not everybody likes stealth and not everybody likes to be on the frontlines of battle.

If it turns out the class you chose does not fit with your prefered playstyle than sure, you're sort-of screwed and you might want to start over and try a different class. But aside from that, I see nothing inherently wrong with having classes in RPGs.

Classes actually are one of the key components of classic RPGs (granted, my favorite RPG of all time doesn't have classes, but still).

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 27 juin 2013 - 12:26 .

[thats1evildude]

There were a lot of chests in Ostagar you couldn't open if you weren't a rogue. Dragon Age 2 just had the one.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 27 juin 2013 - 12:24 .

[Eveangaline]

BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...

I've seen suggestions for a Warrior’s "Smash" option that maybe damages some items in the chest, and a Mage's spell for opening locks. Having to spend your first talent point on an unlock spell instead of, say, Winter's Grasp seems like sacrifice enough.

Ok but only if rogues get a way to heal others and ok tanking skills.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I can't remember if they' fixed this in DA2, but my only request is that you don't make me cycle to my rogue companion to unlock chests. It's tedious and annoying; if someone in my party has the capability to unlock the chest, then just let me unlock it with the PC.

[addiction21]

nijnij wrote...

So I beg you, dear Bioware... this time no locked chests before our first (handy) rogue (other than the player) is recruited. Because we completionists too like to sleep at night

Do you understand that if they did it that way there would be someone upset about it?

Did that one chest you could not open ruin the entire game for you?

[ADeadDiehard]

The chests in Arl Eamon's estate just about drove me to madness. Always sitting there, unopenable, taunting me. It was even worse because both Zevran and Leliana were in the same building, perfectly capable of picking any lock by that point.
So yeah, BW. If you have locked chests, PLEASE let us bring along a capable rogue companion when coming across them. That'd be great, thanks.

[Thetford]

Actually ... perhaps they could do mage and warrior equivalents of chests, small goodies you can only get if you are a a mage or a warrior. Not sure what they would be ... magically enchanted orbs containing goodies inside only mages can access? etc

[AntiChri5]

Thetford wrote...

Actually ... perhaps they could do mage and warrior equivalents of chests, small goodies you can only get if you are a a mage or a warrior. Not sure what they would be ... magically enchanted orbs containing goodies inside only mages can access? etc

Perhaps chests that are locked magically, instead of mechanically. Or tiny tears in the veil you can call items through.

[nijnij]

addiction21 wrote...

Do you understand that if they did it that way there would be someone upset about it?

Did that one chest you could not open ruin the entire game for you?

Of course it did not. Still I believe it was clumsy design and in fact probably involuntary.


I'm all for replayability. But to me, good replayability = enjoying the hell out of your new playthrough as an alternate/parallel experience, not making up for the holes in your last playthrough. Discovering new abilities, choices, outcomes, even places, exclusive gear/storylines/ways to win an encounter... that's replayability. Opening that chest that was nagging you because none of your party members coud open it... not really my idea of replayability.

Honestly I'm not sure how it would "upset" anyone if they don't replicate this minor mistake in the next game :/. I love playing rogue and getting to open all the chests yourself and have no other rogue in your party is awesome. Just leave the chests for when I don't have zero rogue available at this point in the game. They didn't put any locked chests during the Magi origin questline, did they ? Of course they didn't, as there would have been no way to open them. Well, it's the same thing here. A problem whose only solution lies in a different playthrough shouldn't be there at all. That's like a game with an unsolvable puzzle.

Modifié par nijnij, 27 juin 2013 - 10:16 .

[Eveangaline]

Thetford wrote...

Actually ... perhaps they could do mage and warrior equivalents of chests, small goodies you can only get if you are a a mage or a warrior. Not sure what they would be ... magically enchanted orbs containing goodies inside only mages can access? etc

If rogues then get the ability to heal other classes and tank effectively.

[duckley]

I mostly played a rouge because of the chests - drove me crazy to have to trade places with a companion when I was a mage or warrior, to be able to open a chest. For my PC game I loved LOCK BASH

[Patchwork]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I can't remember if they' fixed this in DA2, but my only request is that you don't make me cycle to my rogue companion to unlock chests. It's tedious and annoying; if someone in my party has the capability to unlock the chest, then just let me unlock it with the PC.

Or let me set up the rogues tactics so they automatically open locks out of combat. 

If the class restriction is staying a least have the rogue do their exclusive stuff without prompting. 
The amount of times Varric warned me about a trap after I actived it is ridic. 

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Ser Bard wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I can't remember if they' fixed this in DA2, but my only request is that you don't make me cycle to my rogue companion to unlock chests. It's tedious and annoying; if someone in my party has the capability to unlock the chest, then just let me unlock it with the PC.

Or let me set up the rogues tactics so they automatically open locks out of combat. 

If the class restriction is staying a least have the rogue do their exclusive stuff without prompting. 
The amount of times Varric warned me about a trap after I actived it is ridic. 

That would also be acceptable.

[Nightdragon8]

of you didn't know you really didn't miss much... you missed out at most 2-3 sliver in both DA:O and DA2. not that much money. As others have said, its about teaching you a lesson, (there are only things that rogues can get) then makes you (make sure you have a rogue with you) don't like that, My opionion as an old PnP player, tough luck,didnt' want to spend time balancing your team thats your probem not the develpers. or story tellers or GM if you where.

[Chanda]

I'm still wondering what was in the chest at Ostagar next to the Tranquil guy.

[Patchwork]

Chanda wrote...

I'm still wondering what was in the chest at Ostagar next to the Tranquil guy.

You get the key from the prisoner. I can't remember if the vanillia loot is any good though.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Ser Bard wrote...

Chanda wrote...

I'm still wondering what was in the chest at Ostagar next to the Tranquil guy.

You get the key from the prisoner. I can't remember if the vanillia loot is any good though.

If I remember right the stuff is always more useful to mages, but you'll find better loot pretty quickly.

[n7stormrunner]

as long as I can have/be a rogue at the point I don't care. I mean it's not like I didn't know what I get when I choose a warrior or mage.

[Chanda]

Ser Bard wrote...

Chanda wrote...

I'm still wondering what was in the chest at Ostagar next to the Tranquil guy.

You get the key from the prisoner. I can't remember if the vanillia loot is any good though.

Really? I never got a key from him when I talked to him before, and I always feed him. I must be choosing the wrong options.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Chanda wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

Chanda wrote...

I'm still wondering what was in the chest at Ostagar next to the Tranquil guy.

You get the key from the prisoner. I can't remember if the vanillia loot is any good though.

Really? I never got a key from him when I talked to him before, and I always feed him. I must be choosing the wrong options.

I always threaten him, and then kill him after I get the key.

[Eveangaline]

Chanda wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

Chanda wrote...

I'm still wondering what was in the chest at Ostagar next to the Tranquil guy.

You get the key from the prisoner. I can't remember if the vanillia loot is any good though.

Really? I never got a key from him when I talked to him before, and I always feed him. I must be choosing the wrong options.

You have to ask him what's in it for you. Then he tells you about the key.