1981 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Plaintiff wrote...
Finish reading a sentence, man.

Your sentence was poorly written and didn't convey what you wanted it too.

"Dwarven society supports polygamy, and the sexual exploitation of the lower castes" implies polygamy is in itself a negative thing.

[Plaintiff]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Don't really need homophobia on top of that.

Zevran's dialogue in DAO has already established that not everyone in Thedas agrees with same sex relationships. So something's there, whether or not we need it.

And that's plenty. I'm not asking for everybody in a society to like homosexuality, I'm asking for the text to not dramatize the mere state of being homosexual.

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Finish reading a sentence, man.

Your sentence was poorly written and didn't convey what you wanted it too.

"Dwarven society supports polygamy, and the sexual exploitation of the lower castes" implies polygamy is in itself a negative thing.

For some people, it would be. It's criminalised basically everywhere. In this day and age it's much more likely to be a problem for people than being gay.

[Ziggeh]

Plaintiff wrote...
Well the only "sexual problem" for homosexuals in the vast majority of fiction that includes them is "I have sexual desires for other members of my sex AND I JUST CAN'T DEAL WITH THAT BECAUSE BEING GAY IS SO EDGY AND TRAGIC YOU GUYS".

Not to mention the prevalence in fiction of homosexual relationships that end tragically just because.

Ah right, apologies, I thought you meant more general sexual issues as I couldn't see the reference to a specific post.

[Ziggeh]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd be shocked if homosexuality wasn't a bit frowned upon in Orzammar and among the Dalish.

You know....that could be kind of interesting if handled well (it could be taken as trolling one way or the other very easily), because it would likely be more to do with the social pressure to continue the culture.

[syllogi]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd be shocked if homosexuality wasn't a bit frowned upon in Orzammar and among the Dalish.

Branka had a female lover, and while Oghren might have been disappointed by her leaving him, he wasn't outraged or shocked by that, just turned on.  But I'll admit that Oghren may not be representative of the rest of Orzammar.

Both societies value reproduction, but until we hear the official word from in game, we can't assume that they are more intolerant.  All we have to go on is what we've seen, and characters like Merrill and Oghren have no issue with homosexuality.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd be shocked if homosexuality wasn't a bit frowned upon in Orzammar and among the Dalish.

No indication of it whatsoever among the Dalish; in fact, we have a few anti-indicators of such (Merrill never bringing it up, for instance).

[Ziggeh]

Morocco Mole wrote...
It would. But I doubt Bioware will ever approach the matter seriously. Sad

Why not? If you watch Gaider's recent talk he takes the issue very seriously, and they've tackled equally difficult ground with racial segregation and potentially justifiable terrorism.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 30 juin 2013 - 12:39 .

[bleetman]

I get the feeling it would depend on the caste of the dwarf in question. I can't see anyone caring what the lower castes and casteless do, and the nobles seem to just do what the squat they want in general anyway, but the warrior caste might have some different ideas. I suspect if it was a big deal we would've heard about it by now, though.

Modifié par bleetman, 30 juin 2013 - 12:40 .

[Ziggeh]

syllogi wrote...

Branka had a female lover, and while Oghren might have been disappointed by her leaving him, he wasn't outraged or shocked by that, just turned on. 

As in reality, lesbianism is cool as long as it's hot.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 30 juin 2013 - 12:40 .

[bleetman]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Going so far as to flat-out say that there is little to no homophobia in Thedas. Despite this being a terrible world full of religious, racial, and class discrimination.

Considering that the Chantry exerts massive influence across most of Thedas and has literally nothing to say about homosexuality, but has whole lot to say about other religions, elves and magic, I can't say I'm surprised that bias towards the latter exists in abundance and the former is basically unheard of.

Modifié par bleetman, 30 juin 2013 - 12:50 .

[Thomas Andresen]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Merrill never brings it up because her romance dialog is copy and pasted between both male and female Hawkes.

This is a false assumption unsupported by facts.

...if Hawke is female, Merrill expresses her feelings of wishing she was as perfect as Hawke was, and states that she admires Hawke's cleverness and beauty (as additions).

[Plaintiff]

Remember: If homosexuals aren't constantly being victimized, you have to explain why in detail, or you're not taking the issue seriously enough.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DAO, without a doubt. While I appreciated that DA2 tried to make romances feel less like a shallow multiple-choice test, I still preferred DAO's approach of giving LIs clearly-established sexualities and also accounting for confrontations between simultaneous LIs.

Framed differently: You prefer not being given the option to do something?

Note that this isn't rejection, this is the game fundamentally denying you a choice.

Personlly I'd prefer the rejection route in that case.

Just like in ME3, as I understand it. As  a male Shep you can make a pass at Traynor but will be politely rejected. I assume the same thing goes with Femshep and Cortez?

[Il Divo]

Silfren wrote...

I don't really understand the player-centric objection at all.  Aren't ALL rpg's player-centric?  Isn't the point kind of to play a bad-ass who single-handled solves the world's problems?

Sure, but in a manner that doesn't just come off as if the writers are constantly reminding players how awesome they are.

Basic example: everyone somehow accepting the Warden's claim that he is in fact a Grey Warden without any sort of evidence to it. You could be (literally) anyone.

This is the same basic reason why I come down hard on players who complain when Bioware makes the PC lose on occasion. Ex: Thane's death. We had players literally demanding that Bioware give Thane a method of surviving, before LotSB had even materialized. And likewise with the Warden. In a similar vein, I'm not looking to play a game where the PC, by his sheer awesomeness, can convince anyone and everyone to pull off their shirt for him.

KotOR 2 and Planescape are both games which I think do a great job of making the player feel important without overdoing it.

[Qyla]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Qyla wrote...

I've read some post saying that sexuality is a matter of colture. If that was gay people would have been extincted in medieval times, when Church and blabla. It isn't a matter of culture, is different for every human being in the world.

Sexuality isn't a product of culture, no. Perception of sexuality, on the other hand, is very much so. That is, both how you perceive, and express, your own [insert aspect of personality], and how you perceive statistics, is heavily influenced by societal pressures.

No argument here, we agree. In ancient Greece homosexuality and bisexuality were normal, many thought that real love was the one toward your same sex. And that's just one example

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Merrill never brings it up because her romance dialog is copy and pasted between both male and female Hawkes.

Utterly incorrect. In fact, she mentions societal disapproval to a male Hawke because of the possibility of having a human child, but brings up nothing of the sort with a female Hawke; she says nothing about disapproval in the slot that'd be perfect for it, which is a strong indicator that there's nothing.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'd be shocked if homosexuality wasn't a bit frowned upon in Orzammar and among the Dalish.

No indication of it whatsoever among the Dalish; in fact, we have a few anti-indicators of such (Merrill never bringing it up, for instance).

At the same time though, in DA:O a female Dalish who expresses romantic interest in Tamlen is later told, after Tamlen vanishes, that the clan had hoped the two of you would Bond one day. A male Dalish does not get that opportunity.

This is more of a flaw I see in DA however, rather than necessarily indicative of the Dalish culture. A male PC cannot flirt with Alistair and be let down, nor a female with Morrigan. IIRC the same is true for Sebastian in DA2.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 30 juin 2013 - 01:19 .

[Spatchmo]

I am going through and watching old cut scenes from DAO, and I just have to add, I was very disappointed that Alistair wasn't a romance option for the male warden. I know some people are adamantly against it but I really do hope all the love interests are bisexual or player-sexual.

[Thomas Andresen]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Which doesn't make sense. Since having no child at all should be just as bad as having a human child. Neither increases the dalish dwindling dalish population.

Incorrect again. Irrational as it is, having a half-elf child carries much more stigma than having no child.

Ref.: Feynriel.

Edit: It also doesn't change the fact about how wrong you were about Merrill's romance being cut and paste between male and female Hawke.

Modifié par Thomas Andresen, 30 juin 2013 - 01:21 .

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

nightscrawl wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(2) If in-world, "everyone is bi", that means that among a randomly selected group of people in this universe, all are attracted to both genders. Then my immediate response is "Humans aren't that way. Why is it different in this world? I want an explanation." IMO such a setup requires sexuality being a theme in the story.

Why is such bending of reality acceptable for things like magic, demons, dragons, and darkspawn, but not with sexuality?

Because in reality sexuality exists but magic etc do not? I'm not trying to support Iedra's comment or defend it, I'll leave that to them, but the answer seems obvious to me.