1981 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Well, the atheism tangent started because someone said there was no reason lorewise a player should be able to express disgust at homosexuality. Someone else said there was no reason lorewise someone should be able to express atheistic views but they could anyway.

Oh, I see. 

Even if disgust at homosexuality in Thedas isn't widespread or entrenched, I don't see why people couldn't still find it strange.  In fact, I remember reading something somewhere where the devs explicitly stated that homosexuality is considered strange but not immoral in Thedas.

I think there are very good IRL cultural views to prevent people from expressing distateful or otherwise bigoted views on important social issues. The treatment of women also falls into this category.

[Nightdragon8]

honestly the Anders thing was talked about alot in DA2... I even voiced it, that it was just more "too sudden, too strong" in contest. and yes it was strange having all the LI "PC" romancable. and have already said that, having a purely straight or purely ****** should be fine, (this was before ME3) (tho we already knew that Isabella was bi)

but anyway, I think one of the writers agreed that, "it was alittle too sudden" and if anything should give the PC a chance to flip the "batting for the other team" flag in a more subtle way

[Ryzaki]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Makes me wonder what the Qunari think about it. I have a hunch they wouldn't approve of it.

Considering the very short list of what the Qunari do approve of I wouldn't be surprised.

That said I'd think they'd frown on all romantic relationships equally. Too much of a distraction from one's role most likely.

[Azaron Nightblade]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Well, Oghren can act pretty revolted if a male Warden jokingly comes on to him. I can't really think of any places where the player can.

If you have him and Zevran in team they'll also have a little conversation where Zevran pretends to come onto Oghren, because he knows it'll get to him.

[Azaron Nightblade]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Makes me wonder what the Qunari think about it. I have a hunch they wouldn't approve of it.

Considering the very short list of what the Qunari do approve of I wouldn't be surprised.

That said I'd think they'd frown on all romantic relationships equally. Too much of a distraction from one's role most likely.

Most likely, they probably have a pragmatic view on it.
I imagine they'd see it as not doing your duty to the Qun and producing offspring.
Though if that's the case, we'll never actually see a Qunari express that opinion.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 04 juillet 2013 - 06:09 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Well, Oghren can act pretty revolted if a male Warden jokingly comes on to him. I can't really think of any places where the player can.

If you have him and Zevran in team they'll also have a little conversation where Zevran pretends to come onto Oghren, because he knows it'll get to him.

Oghren did have a little crush on Nathaniel, just saying. 

[Azaron Nightblade]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Well, Oghren can act pretty revolted if a male Warden jokingly comes on to him. I can't really think of any places where the player can.

If you have him and Zevran in team they'll also have a little conversation where Zevran pretends to come onto Oghren, because he knows it'll get to him.

Oghren did have a little crush on Nathaniel, just saying. 

Damnit. Now I'll eventually have to revisit DA:A and team them up!

[Lotion Soronarr]

In Exile wrote...

I think there are very good IRL cultural views to prevent people from expressing distateful or otherwise bigoted views on important social issues. The treatment of women also falls into this category.

I don't see why in a single-player game anyones personal views on anything would matter.

Of course, society - ALL society - is basicly a giant brainwashing apparatus that forces it's oppinion on others.
Everoyne thinks they know the best and their morals/views/thoguths are correct, so they are pushing them around.


Basicly, previnting people from expressing views is IMHO completely contrary to the very notion of freedom of thought...yes. Evern if that view is "all of jews/geys/blacks/atheists/religious/white/whatever suck".

Of course, in a game such detail is unecessary and inpractical, so one doesn't need anything more then an option to disgaree, without any specific as to why.
If a player wants he can fill in the blanks.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Atheism transcends race. Hell, every religious belief is an atheist with respect to every other religion but theirs

I would have to disagree.

I am a Christian. Yet that doesn't mean I think Allah doesn't exist.
As I see it, they are the same entity, just seen and described a bit differenlty because humans (altough in it's very core it is the same).

And I know poeple who belive in a concept of God, but are not tied to any specific religion.

[nightscrawl]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

The only thing that ever "bothered" me about Anders' come on was pretty much me feeling bad and thinking "Oh man, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give you the wrong impression!" and then having to shoot him down and watch him get hurt.

Too bad you can't actually say that to him. <_<

At any rate, purple option, every time. You're not a dick, you're not flirting back, you're not encouraging him. It's a win-win. I even pick this when doing a rival and also when romancing him as a fem Hawke (because I don't want the melodramatic "I'll hurt you" lines).

Modifié par nightscrawl, 04 juillet 2013 - 11:20 .

[Xilizhra]

nightscrawl wrote...

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

The only thing that ever "bothered" me about Anders' come on was pretty much me feeling bad and thinking "Oh man, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give you the wrong impression!" and then having to shoot him down and watch him get hurt.

Too bad you can't actually say that to him. <_<

At any rate, purple option, every time. You're not a dick, you're not flirting back, you're not encouraging him. It's a win-win. I even pick this when doing a rival and also when romancing him as a fem Hawke (because I don't want the melodramatic "I'll hurt you" lines).

Isn't that the "Still creepy" line? That's always seemed dickish to me.

My preferred method is to just let the flirting happen and never follow up on it; it's not like he minds that.

[nightscrawl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Isn't that the "Still creepy" line? That's always seemed dickish to me.

My preferred method is to just let the flirting happen and never follow up on it; it's not like he minds that.

Ugh it's really difficult to remember the scene without it in front of my face. All I can rely on at the moment is the DAwiki page for the Talk to Anders quest.

The "Still creepy" paraphrase line comes after he has made a remark about Justice. That reply is about Justice and the merger, not his sexuality. Don't get me wrong, it's still a rather dickish line, but it would certainly be way more dickish if you were referring to Karl here, which you are not.

Unfortunately, the DAwiki does not have the dialog listed for the post-Chantry scene immediately after Karl that automatically initiates after Anders kills him. During that dialog, I always pick the "Wow, I thought I had problems" purple response.

For the Talk to Anders scene, I usually pick: 1 purple, 2 red, 3 purple. This completely avoids flirting, and also does not encourage him in any way, which would happen if you picked the blue response for 2 -- the blue=encouragement aspect is the biggest issue with this set of choices. No flirting means no opportunity to turn him down and also no suggestive dialog. You do end up with +10 Rivalry with this method because you are criticizing him for Justice. However, even if I am doing a friend or friendmance play, I would still pick this because I don't want those sappy lines for a fem Hawke; 10 Rivalry is easily recoverable.

I prefer to avoid the flirting altogether.

Actually, although I favor the heart icons because I know what my intent is with the lines, I don't like to use the flirt options unless it is absolutely necessary to trigger the romance. For Anders, I use one flirt in Act 2, and for Fenris one each in Acts 1 and 2 (I could skip the Act 1 flirt, but his reaction to "What a waste of a perfectly handsome elf," is too adorable to miss.)

I do the minimal amount of flirting possible to achieve the romance with each of these men. Now that I think about it, this is probably a bad way to play the Anders romance. He has a flirty personality and I do like his Act 2 flirts. Also, flirting with him more would play into his actions during the Clinic Scene, since you've been giving him encouragement that he is attempting to ignore, and not succeeding.


Sorry about the digression into DA2 romance choices. I blame DG for reposting his Tumblr post.

[Angrywolves]

I preferred DAO romance system
You have to work a little harder.
I don't know how much emphasis Bioware put on it. Didn't like the DA2 romances. I do like and want romances . Some players don't and they should have the right to avoid having them. But I want them done where they resonate with creative camera angles where I can imagine there's no clothing at the least and no fade to black.
One of the laid off people was working on romance scenes so it remains to be seen who took over his work. shrugs.

[Gotholhorakh]

Just to curb the "you shouldn't be *allowed* to react like x" train of thought - I think we have a problem with people not truly appreciating that a role playing game with choices tailored to their personal beliefs about what is right and wrong, would be no fun for other people playing a variety of different characters.

It's fair enough if you don't like x, but just picture being a 3rd party for a second.

"So I can't... do or say anything wrong or bad in this game? ...and somebody else decides what is right and wrong?

Well boy, won't that make for some awesome roleplay?"

Personally I will play good/evil/neutral chaotic/lawful characters and if the game is nuanced enough, more complex stuff.

We as RPGers mostly like to be able to choose - and consequently I think we should easily understand that choices we don't like should not necessarily be withheld from other people.

Any character, belonging to any of us may view homosexuality in any way they like, from "mmmm lick my beard bro" to "ew GTFO *stab*", and it would be morally neutral for the human being to choose it for their PC, and morally neutral for the developer to offer it.

You're playing a role - be it just like you, or opposite to you, and what BioWare are doing is facilitating that. Good, evil, whatever.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 juillet 2013 - 04:39 .

[Plaintiff]

As much as I dislike homophobia, and I do, a lot, Dragon Age already lets us murder, lie to, betray and torture people with little to no provocation

The "Not Allowed To Be A Douche" ship has already sailed, I think.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 04 juillet 2013 - 04:47 .

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Too bad you can't actually say that to him. <_<

At any rate, purple option, every time. You're not a dick, you're not flirting back, you're not encouraging him. It's a win-win. I even pick this when doing a rival and also when romancing him as a fem Hawke (because I don't want the melodramatic "I'll hurt you" lines). 

Isn't that the "Still creepy" line? That's always seemed dickish to me.

My preferred method is to just let the flirting happen and never follow up on it; it's not like he minds that. 

I actually did the same thing (since my Champion romanced Merrill), choosing the third option (I believe it's the second 'heart' choice) in the dialogue since the first option seemed like Hawke took offensive to the idea that Anders was attracted to him. I didn't like that. I'm also not sure it was a good idea to have this scene come right after Karl's death (since Anders seemed to come to Kirkwall entirely because of Karl, and I'd imagine he should still be mourning his loss at this point).

Greater control over the protagonist would be ideal. Speaking of Dragon Age II and sexuality, it did remind me of how Hawke looks 'interested' in Isabela at the conclusion of her initial quest, which I imagine would be strange if the player is playing a gay Hawke, or for a player who thinks that his (or her) protagonist wouldn't have a romantic interest in Isabela.

[Gotholhorakh]

Filament wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

As much as I dislike homophobia, and I do, a lot, Dragon Age already lets us murder, lie to, betray and torture people with little to no provocation

Aye, and the idea that roleplaying is about exploring how many different ways you can be a monster stopped being entertaining to me sometime in high school. Give me choices where I can sympathize with either option, not 'lolz fantasy bigotry ftw' /curbstomp.

Nobody buys adventure or RPG games because of what entertains you or what you can sympathize with, except you. Choices that you don't choose that don't intrude on your gameplay, all good, yes?

However you define the genre (let's not get into that), a lot of the enjoyment of this kind of game is in the choices players can make for their PC, for good or ill.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 juillet 2013 - 07:04 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Filament wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Filament wrote...

Aye, and the idea that roleplaying is about exploring how many different ways you can be a monster stopped being entertaining to me sometime in high school. Give me choices where I can sympathize with either option, not 'lolz fantasy bigotry ftw' /curbstomp.

Nobody buys adventure or RPG games because of what entertains you or what you can sympathize with, except you. Choices that you don't choose that don't intrude on your gameplay, all good, yes?

However you define the genre (let's not get into that), a lot of the enjoyment of this kind of game is in the choices players can make for their PC, for good or ill.

Not really, since what entertains others in this instance as puerile, crappy writing/fanservice. In my opinion, as you are so keen to point out. Since the amount of roles you can fill is necessarily limited by the fact that it's a computer game and not table top, I am simply saying they shouldn't waste their time on roles like fantasy bigot, etc.

So you're just sounding off about what people should/shouldn't do; Fair enough.

[Gotholhorakh]

Filament wrote...

What the devs should/shouldn't do, specifically. Like everyone else on the forums who ever made a suggestion about anything. You're free to make your action figures curbstomp each other all day long if you're into that.

I see - I suppose I misinterpreted "what entertains others in this instance as puerile, crappy writing/fanservice" as a comment on others' choices and preferences being invalid.


As I already said, fair enough if you're going on opinion there - good for you, not unreasonable. It doesn't make much sense that you replied to what I was saying about choice and roleplay with that, but ok.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 juillet 2013 - 09:38 .

[blod007]

When I did my first CC on dragon age I noticed that both sexes were equal in terms of ability etc., so naturally assumed that meant bi-sexuality. I have no reason for it I just did. It did not surprise me when Morrigan replied to my fem warden's attempt at flirting with "Oh, what Luck!" I honestly thought Alistair was gay before I started really talking to him.

What I don't get it why let's say your tank, can gain a certain amount of constitution yet doesn't loose (i.e. go into the negative rather than stay at 0) if they react towards the player or player choices. Would that tank protect or aid the player in a fight, so just let them get surrounded. I know that depends on tactics, but surely they would react differently towards comrade in arms, friend or lover?

Knowing nothing about computers I wonder if this is possible to work together with the friend/rival bar.