1981 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Lebdood wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, we all know how I feel about what Anders did. I wish the game had given me the option to express definite approval, rather than ranging from outright anger to uncertainty.

Sebastian: "If I'd been in that Chantry today, would you be waffling?"

Me: "No, Sebastian, I'd be cheering. You bug the crap out of me."

Ya know...you can always turn off the Exiled Prince DLC 

I hate Sebastian as a person, but as a character I think he's well-written enough. Sort of Hamlet-y.

[Lebanese Dude]

Plaintiff wrote...

I hate Sebastian as a person, but as a character I think he's well-written enough. Sort of Hamlet-y.

Ah okay. 

I actually liked him a little, up until he swore eternal vengeance on me. Got a little awkward...

Modifié par Lebdood, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:59 .

[ignoreality]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Hardly. Ignoring the fact that he was possessed and thus not exactly fully reponsible for his actions the man would not stop apologizing. I mean someone whose with you from close to the start who actively sells you out to an enemy and then tries to kill you at some point.

He is emotionally abusive and potentially manipulates Hawke into doing his own dirty work.

Abusers 'apologize' for their actions all the time. Doesn't mean they are any less abusive or even being truly sincere about them.

So much this.

Most of the sympathy I had for DA2 Anders disappeared in a puff of smoke when he tried to emotionally blackmail Hawke into smuggling him into the Chantry, RIGHT AFTER lying to her and exploiting her friendship to get his bomb ingredients. That was just utterly disgusting.

Sheesh. How people can romance the guy is beyond me. 

[Plaintiff]

Anders didn't do any of those things to any of my Hawkes.

[DRTJR]

I liked Sebastian, he wanted Anders dead almost as much as I, I hope he is king in Starkhaven when we come marching around the free marches

[Plaintiff]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Anders didn't do any of those things to any of my Hawkes.

This does not change the fact that Anders is a potentially abusive person

What a meaningless statement. Everybody is potentially abusive literally all of the time. They're also potentially not. That's the thing about 'potential', it's not actually an indicator of anything concrete or useful. With logic like yours, nobody would be able to date anybody ever. We could never save anybody who needed help because they might potentially do something bad. We could never go outside because we'd potentially get hit by a bus.

~~Edited by BioWareMod03

Modifié par BioWareMod03, 01 décembre 2013 - 03:25 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lebdood wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, we all know how I feel about what Anders did. I wish the game had given me the option to express definite approval, rather than ranging from outright anger to uncertainty.

Sebastian: "If I'd been in that Chantry today, would you be waffling?"

Me: "No, Sebastian, I'd be cheering. You bug the crap out of me."

Ya know...you can always turn off the Exiled Prince DLC 

Ain't nobody got time for that!!

[HiroVoid]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Except again, Anders can (and will) lie to you about the purposes of his ingredients. And use your feelings for him to do it. That is, my friend, emotional abuse.

No.  Anders only has the potential to be abusive.  There's no proof he would be abusive.

[philippe willaume]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Anders didn't do any of those things to any of my Hawkes.

This does not change the fact that Anders is a potentially abusive person

And so what, if that is the character? and really untill actII, we can see his knickers getting in a twist.

My beef with Andres as character, is that if you have full friendship and even more so when in romance  whatever  hawk  gender is. It all happens as if he was a distant acquaintance not a dude you have known for 10 years and save each other bottom countless time
That being said, it works better in full rivalry.

It is not a matter of changing the result, it is a matter of how you get there as a player and what are the consequences  for your char.

for sexuality, it is hard to avoid pitfall, but really for character like Isabella, where sex is really part of what they are, it should be more played on in companion/courtship/romance.

phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 01 décembre 2013 - 03:29 .

[Kallimachus]

Returning topic at hand (rather than the Sebastian/Anders Bad/Good issue which is completely off it).

I, personally, certainly enjoy the same sex romance in the game, and would not want to part with it. However, I do not think that romance is only place where LGBT issues can be tackled in the DA universe. Even without resorting to introducing the type of homophobia that is symptomatic to our own world, Thedas presents several obvious places where a gay person would find difficulties that other would not. And I could list a few:

The repressive Qunari society has a very instrumental view of sexual and romantic relationship. They basically only exist for the creation of offspring. And while we have not yet, to my knowledge, been exposed to what family life is like under the Qun (if such a thing even exists), it stands to reason that homosexuality is an alien concept to the Qunari, or at least not something that is encouraged. Imagine a Tal Vashoth, having broken with the Qun, to then make startling discoveries about his own sexuality, and emotional makeup, ones he would never have considered even possible before. Imagine A Qunari still within the Qun making such discoveries about himself after exposure to life outside the Qun - how does that person reconcile the conflicting demands of his own emotions with those of his faith - this could almost set the stage to a Japanese Samurai drama, with conflicting ninjo/giri.

At least two societies in Thedas are teetering on the brink of extinction, either physical or cultural - The Dwarves and the Dalish. In such societies there must be an enormous pressure to procreate, because of the very real threat to the actual survival of those societies. How does a gay person deal with those pressures?

Among human nobles, young non-heterosexuals can be (and probably are) exposed to similar pressures. Most societies in which nobility exists sanctify blood heritage and the divine right of the nobility, so there is a pressure not unlike the one that exists among the aforementioned Dalish and Dwarves to beget children and carry on the line. That issue is problematic not just for gay people, but for other non-heterosexuals as well. An asexual person, such as Sebastian, as the head (and sole survivor) of a noble house, and as a head of state must face pressures from all around to bring forth a natural heir, to ensure the continuity of his line and the stability of his state. I do not know if Empress Celene has children, but it is not reasonable to think that her being a lesbian does not worry people in her environment (especially supporters) in regards to her ability to bear an heir. That is simply the mindset of a monarchist or an oligarch.

All of these issues might appear as part of the storyline of LI characters (whether they are written as solely same-sex, or if it is some sort of reactivity from the game), as a story of a non-romanceable companion, as a story of an NPC, or even (as a reactive consequence) for the PC. Just because BioWare has so far avoided dealing with LGBT issues outside of romance, doesn't mean it cannot be done (Although I, personally would prefer that it be done in conjunction).

[Hellion Rex]

Kallimachus wrote...

Returning topic at hand (rather than the Sebastian/Anders Bad/Good issue which is completely off it).

I, personally, certainly enjoy the same sex romance in the game, and would not want to part with it. However, I do not think that romance is only place where LGBT issues can be tackled in the DA universe. Even without resorting to introducing the type of homophobia that is symptomatic to our own world, Thedas presents several obvious places where a gay person would find difficulties that other would not. And I could list a few:

The repressive Qunari society has a very instrumental view of sexual and romantic relationship. They basically only exist for the creation of offspring. And while we have not yet, to my knowledge, been exposed to what family life is like under the Qun (if such a thing even exists), it stands to reason that homosexuality is an alien concept to the Qunari, or at least not something that is encouraged. Imagine a Tal Vashoth, having broken with the Qun, to then make startling discoveries about his own sexuality, and emotional makeup, ones he would never have considered even possible before. Imagine A Qunari still within the Qun making such discoveries about himself after exposure to life outside the Qun - how does that person reconcile the conflicting demands of his own emotions with those of his faith - this could almost set the stage to a Japanese Samurai drama, with conflicting ninjo/giri.

At least two societies in Thedas are teetering on the brink of extinction, either physical or cultural - The Dwarves and the Dalish. In such societies there must be an enormous pressure to procreate, because of the very real threat to the actual survival of those societies. How does a gay person deal with those pressures?

Among human nobles, young non-heterosexuals can be (and probably are) exposed to similar pressures. Most societies in which nobility exists sanctify blood heritage and the divine right of the nobility, so there is a pressure not unlike the one that exists among the aforementioned Dalish and Dwarves to beget children and carry on the line. That issue is problematic not just for gay people, but for other non-heterosexuals as well. An asexual person, such as Sebastian, as the head (and sole survivor) of a noble house, and as a head of state must face pressures from all around to bring forth a natural heir, to ensure the continuity of his line and the stability of his state. I do not know if Empress Celene has children, but it is not reasonable to think that her being a lesbian does not worry people in her environment (especially supporters) in regards to her ability to bear an heir. That is simply the mindset of a monarchist or an oligarch.

All of these issues might appear as part of the storyline of LI characters (whether they are written as solely same-sex, or if it is some sort of reactivity from the game), as a story of a non-romanceable companion, as a story of an NPC, or even (as a reactive consequence) for the PC. Just because BioWare has so far avoided dealing with LGBT issues outside of romance, doesn't mean it cannot be done (Although I, personally would prefer that it be done in conjunction).

Bolded 1. I would really love to see something like that. Hopefully we can see some of that conflict in a Tal-Vashoth, like Iron Bull. That would be an awesome story to tell.
Bolded 2. Do we know that Empress Celene is only a lesbian, and not simply bisexual? And also, I am pretty sure she has no children at the moment. But I still see why having an heir would be extremely important to her rule.

Modifié par eluvianix, 01 décembre 2013 - 03:36 .

[philippe willaume]

Kallimachus wrote...

Returning topic at hand (rather than the Sebastian/Anders Bad/Good issue which is completely off it).

I, personally, certainly enjoy the same sex romance in the game, and would not want to part with it. However, I do not think that romance is only place where LGBT issues can be tackled in the DA universe. Even without resorting to introducing the type of homophobia that is symptomatic to our own world, Thedas presents several obvious places where a gay person would find difficulties that other would not. And I could list a few:

The repressive Qunari society has a very instrumental view of sexual and romantic relationship. They basically only exist for the creation of offspring. And while we have not yet, to my knowledge, been exposed to what family life is like under the Qun (if such a thing even exists), it stands to reason that homosexuality is an alien concept to the Qunari, or at least not something that is encouraged. Imagine a Tal Vashoth, having broken with the Qun, to then make startling discoveries about his own sexuality, and emotional makeup, ones he would never have considered even possible before. Imagine A Qunari still within the Qun making such discoveries about himself after exposure to life outside the Qun - how does that person reconcile the conflicting demands of his own emotions with those of his faith - this could almost set the stage to a Japanese Samurai drama, with conflicting ninjo/giri.

At least two societies in Thedas are teetering on the brink of extinction, either physical or cultural - The Dwarves and the Dalish. In such societies there must be an enormous pressure to procreate, because of the very real threat to the actual survival of those societies. How does a gay person deal with those pressures?

Among human nobles, young non-heterosexuals can be (and probably are) exposed to similar pressures. Most societies in which nobility exists sanctify blood heritage and the divine right of the nobility, so there is a pressure not unlike the one that exists among the aforementioned Dalish and Dwarves to beget children and carry on the line. That issue is problematic not just for gay people, but for other non-heterosexuals as well. An asexual person, such as Sebastian, as the head (and sole survivor) of a noble house, and as a head of state must face pressures from all around to bring forth a natural heir, to ensure the continuity of his line and the stability of his state. I do not know if Empress Celene has children, but it is not reasonable to think that her being a lesbian does not worry people in her environment (especially supporters) in regards to her ability to bear an heir. That is simply the mindset of a monarchist or an oligarch.

All of these issues might appear as part of the storyline of LI characters (whether they are written as solely same-sex, or if it is some sort of reactivity from the game), as a story of a non-romanceable companion, as a story of an NPC, or even (as a reactive consequence) for the PC. Just because BioWare has so far avoided dealing with LGBT issues outside of romance, doesn't mean it cannot be done (Although I, personally would prefer that it be done in conjunction).

Hello 

I like the ideas  but I think it is hard to achieve without blatant stereotyping and I am quite sure that a part of the player population will object to BW  that "Da Gayz thing" is being rammed down their throat, like corn in  a geese 6 months before Xmas.

phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 01 décembre 2013 - 03:57 .

[Plaintiff]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Except again, Anders can (and will) lie to you about the purposes of his ingredients. And use your feelings for him to do it. That is, my friend, emotional abuse.

I dunno what definition of emotional abuse you're using here, because I haven't found a single one that says keeping secrets or lying is automatically an 'emotionally abusive' behaviour. In any case, Anders will come clean, at least on the Friendship path. If a player opts for the Rivalry path then they only have themselves to blame for perceiving the relationship as abusive, because that's what they chose. If you're constantly telling Anders he's an inhuman monster who deserves to be locked in a spiky rape tower, you're no better than he is. 

As for emotional blackmail, I don't see anything like that. Anders' cause matters more to him than his own life. If you don't care about it, then of course he's going to extrapolate from that that you don't care about him. When he accuses you of not caring for him, that's not emotional blackmail; that's him expressing how he legitimately perceives the situation.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 décembre 2013 - 03:50 .

[philippe willaume]

eluvianix wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

Returning topic at hand (rather than the Sebastian/Anders Bad/Good issue which is completely off it).

I, personally, certainly enjoy the same sex romance in the game, and would not want to part with it. However, I do not think that romance is only place where LGBT issues can be tackled in the DA universe. Even without resorting to introducing the type of homophobia that is symptomatic to our own world, Thedas presents several obvious places where a gay person would find difficulties that other would not. And I could list a few:

The repressive Qunari society has a very instrumental view of sexual and romantic relationship. They basically only exist for the creation of offspring. And while we have not yet, to my knowledge, been exposed to what family life is like under the Qun (if such a thing even exists), it stands to reason that homosexuality is an alien concept to the Qunari, or at least not something that is encouraged. Imagine a Tal Vashoth, having broken with the Qun, to then make startling discoveries about his own sexuality, and emotional makeup, ones he would never have considered even possible before. Imagine A Qunari still within the Qun making such discoveries about himself after exposure to life outside the Qun - how does that person reconcile the conflicting demands of his own emotions with those of his faith - this could almost set the stage to a Japanese Samurai drama, with conflicting ninjo/giri.

At least two societies in Thedas are teetering on the brink of extinction, either physical or cultural - The Dwarves and the Dalish. In such societies there must be an enormous pressure to procreate, because of the very real threat to the actual survival of those societies. How does a gay person deal with those pressures?

Among human nobles, young non-heterosexuals can be (and probably are) exposed to similar pressures. Most societies in which nobility exists sanctify blood heritage and the divine right of the nobility, so there is a pressure not unlike the one that exists among the aforementioned Dalish and Dwarves to beget children and carry on the line. That issue is problematic not just for gay people, but for other non-heterosexuals as well. An asexual person, such as Sebastian, as the head (and sole survivor) of a noble house, and as a head of state must face pressures from all around to bring forth a natural heir, to ensure the continuity of his line and the stability of his state. I do not know if Empress Celene has children, but it is not reasonable to think that her being a lesbian does not worry people in her environment (especially supporters) in regards to her ability to bear an heir. That is simply the mindset of a monarchist or an oligarch.

All of these issues might appear as part of the storyline of LI characters (whether they are written as solely same-sex, or if it is some sort of reactivity from the game), as a story of a non-romanceable companion, as a story of an NPC, or even (as a reactive consequence) for the PC. Just because BioWare has so far avoided dealing with LGBT issues outside of romance, doesn't mean it cannot be done (Although I, personally would prefer that it be done in conjunction).

Bolded 1. I would really love to see something like that. Hopefully we can see some of that conflict in a Tal-Vashoth, like Iron Bull. That would be an awesome story to tell.
Bolded 2. Do we know that Empress Celene is only a lesbian, and not simply bisexual? And also, I am pretty sure she has no children at the moment. But I still see why having an heir would be extremely important to her rule.

For 2  the lack of heir is only a problem is the kingship is hereditary and there is no rules of succession for a line without issue.

So if Orlais empire is like the Roman Germanic Empire, the emperor is elected by the Great electors.
or if Orlais follows the western medieval Europe customs, if there is no heir the crown, the crown will go to a brother or sister of the current monarch. 
There should be no problems

Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 01 décembre 2013 - 03:59 .

[Kallimachus]

philippe willaume wrote...

For 2  the lack of heir is only a problem is the kingship is hereditary and there is no rules of succession for a line without issue.

So if Orlais empire is like the Roman Germanic Empire the emperor is elected by the Great electors.
or if Orlais follows the western medieval Europe customs, if there is no heir the crown, the crown will go to a brother or sister of the current monarch. 
There is no problem

Phil

Theoretically you might be right, but if you look at who was actually elected to be Holy Roman Emperor, you'll discover that by an enormous majority most of them came from one hereditary family - the Habsburgs.

And while it is true that a king's sibling (or cousin) could inherit the throne, if you look at European history you'll discover that such transitions were VERY often far from smooth and very often contested. And so for stability's sake, the monarch is almost always under pressure to bring forth an heir.

[Bhaal]

Kallimachus wrote...
Snip

Very good points. Homophobia has it's socio-economical reasons behind it and these not actually making sense is another matter. When nobles don't care that their only son not having a child because he's gay, it feels little off(It may be encouraged for siblings for example and that would make sense). Making a dark fantasy world as homophobic as our isn't a necessity but explaining the why such world is open minded when it comes to same-sex relations should explained historically, only for the sake of a good writing.

Varic was the only non-romancable character and people got mad about it... Why?!. I wonder why it matters so much whether a character is romancable or not?

Romance should serve to story and role-playing like: "my hawke chose to help mages because she/he loved Anders." or "i killed the arishok because of Isabella..." these are fine. However Fenris and Merrill were there just for fan-service(they not serving to overall plot that's for sure). Merill as a Dalish keeper chosing to romance male Hawke without any extraordinary reason doesn't make sense and hurts the immersion.(Though i always romanced her. Nerdy, dirty, skiny, cute, shy, elf blood-mage...I just started a new game and was planning to romance Anders but nope! i failed again).

Romance options being bisexual is not really a bad thing for characterization but every single person on Thedas being bisexual and romancable so they can serve player's most secret desires... i'm not sure..

[Ianamus]

Adakutay wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...
Snip

Very good points. Homophobia has it's socio-economical reasons behind it and these not actually making sense is another matter. When nobles don't care that their only son not having a child because he's gay, it feels little off(It may be encouraged for siblings for example and that would make sense). Making a dark fantasy world as homophobic as our isn't a necessity but explaining the why such world is open minded when it comes to same-sex relations should explained historically, only for the sake of a good writing.

Varic was the only non-romancable character and people got mad about it... Why?!. I wonder why it matters so much whether a character is romancable or not?

Romance should serve to story and role-playing like: "my hawke chose to help mages because she/he loved Anders." or "i killed the arishok because of Isabella..." these are fine. However Fenris and Merrill were there just for fan-service(they not serving to overall plot that's for sure). Merill as a Dalish keeper chosing to romance male Hawke without any extraordinary reason doesn't make sense and hurts the immersion.(Though i always romanced her. Nerdy, dirty, skiny, cute, shy, elf blood-mage...I just started a new game and was planning to romance Anders but nope! i failed again).

Romance options being bisexual is not really a bad thing for characterization but every single person on Thedas being bisexual and romancable so they can serve player's most secret desires... i'm not sure..

I think that every romance should play a role with the main story. In Origins Alistair and Morrigan were the romances that actually affected the plot to a large degree (and were also the heterosexual options) and in DA:2 only Isabela's and Anders affect the main story to a degree.

I don't see why it isn't possible to simply have every romance play at least some role in the main story. 

[Kallimachus]

philippe willaume wrote...


Hello 

I like the ideas  but I think it is hard to achieve without blatant stereotyping and I am quite sure that a part of the player population will object to BW  that "Da Gayz thing" is being rammed down their throat, like corn in  a geese 6 months before Xmas.

phil

Well... If The Bureau: XCOM Declassified did it, why couldn't an DA game?

[Statare]

DRTJR wrote...

I liked Sebastian, he wanted Anders dead almost as much as I, I hope he is king in Starkhaven when we come marching around the free marches

I feel so bad for the Starkaven citizens if that is the case. They literally mean nothing to Sebastian, who is willing to let them live in a chaotic interum government after the coup / counter-coup of the Harrowman family. He can't even fathom that what they need is a stable government in which they can rebuild and not fall prey to forces who might try to seize power. He only sees them as a potential resource of revenge to sacrifice in a bloody conflict to avenge the deaths of a few Chantry clergy. That is equally as sociopathic, in my mind, as Anders' decision to blow up the Chantry in the first place. Sebastian views people as resources he is entitled to. That's creepy. He's equally willing to rely on the threat of violence to get his way, which is a form of terrorism.

I think to continue comparing Sebastian to Shakespearean characters, he goes from being an incompetant Hamlet figure to being a  megalomaniac Macbeth.

Like, Sebastian, to me is a good character because he gets under my skin and bugs me. I think that so many people feel so strongly about Anders, is indicative of something. At least he is not forgetable.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Anders is the worst written character in DA2 followed only by Merrill, his best bit in the whole game is when you get to kill him.

[Statare]

Kallimachus wrote...

Returning topic at hand (rather than the Sebastian/Anders Bad/Good issue which is completely off it).

I, personally, certainly enjoy the same sex romance in the game, and would not want to part with it. However, I do not think that romance is only place where LGBT issues can be tackled in the DA universe. Even without resorting to introducing the type of homophobia that is symptomatic to our own world, Thedas presents several obvious places where a gay person would find difficulties that other would not. And I could list a few:

The repressive Qunari society has a very instrumental view of sexual and romantic relationship. They basically only exist for the creation of offspring. And while we have not yet, to my knowledge, been exposed to what family life is like under the Qun (if such a thing even exists), it stands to reason that homosexuality is an alien concept to the Qunari, or at least not something that is encouraged. Imagine a Tal Vashoth, having broken with the Qun, to then make startling discoveries about his own sexuality, and emotional makeup, ones he would never have considered even possible before. Imagine A Qunari still within the Qun making such discoveries about himself after exposure to life outside the Qun - how does that person reconcile the conflicting demands of his own emotions with those of his faith - this could almost set the stage to a Japanese Samurai drama, with conflicting ninjo/giri.

At least two societies in Thedas are teetering on the brink of extinction, either physical or cultural - The Dwarves and the Dalish. In such societies there must be an enormous pressure to procreate, because of the very real threat to the actual survival of those societies. How does a gay person deal with those pressures?

Among human nobles, young non-heterosexuals can be (and probably are) exposed to similar pressures. Most societies in which nobility exists sanctify blood heritage and the divine right of the nobility, so there is a pressure not unlike the one that exists among the aforementioned Dalish and Dwarves to beget children and carry on the line. That issue is problematic not just for gay people, but for other non-heterosexuals as well. An asexual person, such as Sebastian, as the head (and sole survivor) of a noble house, and as a head of state must face pressures from all around to bring forth a natural heir, to ensure the continuity of his line and the stability of his state. I do not know if Empress Celene has children, but it is not reasonable to think that her being a lesbian does not worry people in her environment (especially supporters) in regards to her ability to bear an heir. That is simply the mindset of a monarchist or an oligarch.

All of these issues might appear as part of the storyline of LI characters (whether they are written as solely same-sex, or if it is some sort of reactivity from the game), as a story of a non-romanceable companion, as a story of an NPC, or even (as a reactive consequence) for the PC. Just because BioWare has so far avoided dealing with LGBT issues outside of romance, doesn't mean it cannot be done (Although I, personally would prefer that it be done in conjunction).

I think you are on to something. We have all these explicit or implicit ways the story might address LGBTQ issues. Cultures in Thedas varry on how they view non-heterosexuality, it is a strucural componant of the plot the writers want to explore. Yet, outside of LIs, LGBTQ issues are either not explored or are only implicit. For instance, Vicount Dumar's son may (or may not) have been involved physically with a male Qunari. All the interesting implications of this are explored in vague details. Which reflects the constraints of the setting (Dumar's son might feel doubly uncomfortable talking about the trist because double taboo (with a male and a heathen)). Even so it remained under-developed and missable.

In general all these elements of the setting that affect LGBTQ characters, from NPCs to LIs to the player's character (should it be LGBTQ) remain under-developed and left to the extreme periphery of the story. Some characters, like Merrill or a Dalish/ Dwarf Noble/Human Noble/ Qunari character who experience same-sex attraction or non-normative sexualties would be directly affected by these cultural views on sexuality in Thedas and  it would make sense for them to actually talk about the subject, even outside of a LI plot.

As a rule in the games, LGBTQ issues are confined to the plot of a LI, while a lot of 'straight' issues are explicitly explored by various NPCs and often times the player character gets directly involved with their stories, while LGBTQ NPCs are absent or not developed in the same way. There are so many quests where you help some feuding / developing straight romance, but only a handful where LGBTQ characters are even present, and if they are it is by assumption (Wade and Herren).

[Senya]

Morocco Mole wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Anders is the worst written character in DA2 followed only by Merrill, his best bit in the whole game is when you get to kill him.

I like the part where he murders that harmless mage and freaks out.

Then decides he might as well martyr her and blame everyone else for it

Oh, he does that? Wow.