1981 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Wade and Herren don't have to be 'camp' at all, homosexuality and 'camp' aren't related. All they have to do is say that they're together, or do something that demonstrates it. It can be as simple as holding hands or calling each other by pet names.

It's really not difficult.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2013 - 08:40 .

[Ieldra]

Silfren wrote...

lxwkl31 wrote...

That's what I thought. So how has visibility increased with every game? Why? Because they offered all the romances (save Sebastian) to either gender? It seems to me that it back-tracked and the LGBT front from Origins.

Maybe it hasn't increased in terms of measurable numbers per game, but it has definitely improved over time for DA-related content.  In The Calling there are two men in a canonical relationship.  In Origins of course we have Leliana and Zevran as firmly established bisexual characters, as well as Leliana's past relationship with Marjolaine--and of course Wade and Herren.  There is also Isabela.  You also have the option, as a Warden of either gender, to have a one night stand with either a man or a woman in the Cousland origin.  In DA2, beyond the LIs, you have Serendipity, problematic though it is, and Jethann.  In the comics, there is the transgender woman, Maevaris.  In the upcoming book The Masked Empire, of course, there is the stated relationship between Celene and her elf servant. 

It's not much, but it is there, and yes, Bioware is making an effort.

It is not much? How much should there be in your estimation? These aren't stories about relationships, they - relationships - are only a small part of the story, and the games. I'm all for making minority orientations more visible, but not to the extent that the inclusivity issue appears to dominate relationship design. DA2 already crossed that line somewhat with its "everyone is bi" philosophy (no matter that the design principle was phrased "subjective sexuality", "everyone is bi" is how it came across). I can live with it given the economic pressures of game development, but I don't like it.

What I would like to see, however, is the occasional "normal relationship between NPCs that just happens to be gay". DAO had Leliana's past with Marjolaine and Wade and Herren, but the first one was dysfunctional and the latter - the only really visible one - played with gay stereotypes. DA2 didn't even try. ME3's Cortez and his past relationship was a commendable attempt, but the writing wasn't exactly good.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 décembre 2013 - 10:02 .

[Angrywolves]

Making too much of the LGBT stuff. It's a video game, not a Supreme Court Decision on same sex marriages. If Wade and Herren are gay that's fine. But writing voluminous opinions about it is overkill, quite frankly.

[Plaintiff]

Angrywolves wrote...

Making too much of the LGBT stuff. It's a video game, not a Supreme Court Decision on same sex marriages. If Wade and Herren are gay that's fine. But writing voluminous opinions about it is overkill, quite frankly.

Media generally has a vital role in shaping the opinions and will of society. To say that videogames don't matter and that their content shouldn't be critiqued is short-sighted and obtuse, quite frankly.

[Thomas Andresen]

All they have to do is say that they're together, or do something that demonstrates it. It can be as simple as holding hands or calling each other by pet names.

I think they'd have had to be presented in a different context within the game for that to work.

I think one of the problems in their conversations, the word for word explicit part of the conversation, is that it's can just as easily have been between two business partners. And when the subtext requires a very specific, if common, knowledge of stereotypes that doesn't otherwise exist within the game, I think it's more fair to ignore the subtext than heed it.

[Ieldra]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

All they have to do is say that they're together, or do something that demonstrates it. It can be as simple as holding hands or calling each other by pet names.

I think they'd have had to be presented in a different context within the game for that to work.

I think one of the problems in their conversations, the word for word explicit part of the conversation, is that it's can just as easily have been between two business partners. And when the subtext requires a very specific, if common, knowledge of stereotypes that doesn't otherwise exist within the game, I think it's more fair to ignore the subtext than heed it.

Indeed. In fact, I didn't make the connection before people pointed it out on the forum. After that, it was obvious.

[Gear2nd]

I wonder why pple even bother with arguing about romance or LI's Bioware's games. Haven't they already said they're going with the playersexual route?

So anyone arguing about it is only taking a months-old horse corpse and beating it with a sledge hammer. If pple want to project their rl fantasies into a videogame then let them, if you are truly against playersexual LI's then avoid them in the game, I know that I will. My point is that it's a dead argument and we already know what's gonna' happen.

[Lebanese Dude]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I really hope they don't go the playersexual route.

Same here. I liked the system for its inclusiveness, but I vastly prefer the ME3 approach. (barring straight femshep choices)

[Plaintiff]

The ME3 approach being 'give straight male players nearly twice as many options as lesbian players, and more than six times as many options as gay male players or straight female players'?

[ScarMK]

I'm pretty sure he means everyone has their own set. Bis, gays, and straight. But, go on and assume that's why he picked it.

[dreamgazer]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I really hope they don't go the playersexual route.

Indeed.

[ScarMK]

Morocco Mole wrote...

The ME3 approach is to give the female protagonist the weird creatures and about four lesbian romances for the teen demographic obviously.

Gotta appeal to those teens mang.

[Lebanese Dude]

Plaintiff wrote...

The ME3 approach being 'give straight male players nearly twice as many options as lesbian players, and more than six times as many options as gay male players or straight female players'?

The approach I preferred was having set sexual orientations for all characters, while having a fair amount of options for all orientations given the circumstances (minus striaght femshep).

You're forgetting that ME3 has had a set character for all three games, so the straight male Shepard could accrue up to 7 romantic options before ME3 starts. The gay male Shepard could not. Therefore it's illogical to complain about the number variance. 

Also, ME3 potentially had the same number of gay LIs as DA so it's not like there's a net loss or anything.

Modifié par Lebdood, 02 décembre 2013 - 03:18 .

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Lebdood wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I really hope they don't go the playersexual route.

Same here. I liked the system for its inclusiveness, but I vastly prefer the ME3 approach. (barring straight femshep choices)

ME3 femshep lesbian romances weren't great either, apart from the Liara romance, they were treated like flings instead of relationships

[GreyLycanTrope]

Plaintiff wrote...

The ME3 approach being 'give straight male players nearly twice as many options as lesbian players, and more than six times as many options as gay male players or straight female players'?

Lesbian Shep had more viabal options than straight femshep actually.

[Lebanese Dude]

Threat300 wrote...

ME3 femshep lesbian romances weren't great either, apart from the Liara romance, they were treated like flings instead of relationships

Ah well I wouldn't know. I thought Samantha Traynor was great so I assumed her romance would be too.

[Seboist]

Plaintiff wrote...

The ME3 approach being 'give straight male players nearly twice as many options as lesbian players, and more than six times as many options as gay male players or straight female players'?

Sounds like real life demographics. Kudos to BW for that.

[Seboist]

Lebdood wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

ME3 femshep lesbian romances weren't great either, apart from the Liara romance, they were treated like flings instead of relationships

Ah well I wouldn't know. I thought Samantha Traynor was great so I assumed her romance would be too.

Her "romance" is Jacob levels of godawful but without something as memorable as "the priiize".

[Seboist]

Morocco Mole wrote...

showering in your underwear is pretty memorable, seboist

Was speaking of dialogue but yeah, that IS memorable. That bit actually makes it worse than Jacob's mance.