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On Good Writing and How it Applies to Characterization and Sexuality


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#1951
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, that's what I said. Read it again.

The prevalence of lesbian options over gay male and straight female options just proves beyond any doubt that the romances in the ME series exist for the titllation of the straight male audience, not to provide any sort of in-depth characterisation, and certainly not for any sense of 'realism', despite what the ignorant may claim.


Or it could've had something to do with that fact that 82% of players played as a male, and they were using their resources wisely. They didn't spend a bunch of money creating something that many people wouldn't use or witness.

Also, the amount of gay options matches the amount of lesbian options. You can argue that lesbians had it easier since their option was introduced in ME1, but that lesbian option had to do more with the fact that the Asari are unisexish. 

#1952
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Lebdood wrote...

As long as we do it every time we read the word "catering". :P


Acceptable

#1953
Plaintiff

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, that's what I said. Read it again.

The prevalence of lesbian options over gay male and straight female options just proves beyond any doubt that the romances in the ME series exist for the titllation of the straight male audience, not to provide any sort of in-depth characterisation, and certainly not for any sense of 'realism', despite what the ignorant may claim.

So if we'd match up the numbers for each orientation we'd be good right? I mean that wouldn't make the romances any more in-depth then they are, but if we're just trying to get equal titillation for everyone I have no major objections so long as not everyone is protag sexual.

I don't like the idea of LIs being locked out for any reason other than in-game decisions made by my character.

If all the numbers were equal, I could grudgingly accept that. But I have yet to encounter a compelling reason for why any of the characters should have fixed sexualities. It doesn't make them 'deeper', it doesn't make them more 'realistic', and it certainly doesn't make them more 'interesting', at least not to anyone who's familiar with how gay characters in fiction are typically portrayed.

Cortez and Traynor are not 'deeper', more 'realistic' or more 'interesting' for being 'fixed-gay'. The only people I ever met who thought that their sexuality added to their characters in any significant way were individuals who regard non-heterosexual characters as a novelty, and think that being gay makes up for lacking other personality traits.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2013 - 04:07 .


#1954
dreamgazer

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(hiccup)

#1955
Jorji Costava

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spirosz wrote...

osbornep wrote...
I'll take a stab at this, although it's sure to end badly. The reason is probably the same as the reason why you shouldn't give twice as much content to paragons as to renegades, although two thirds of ME players played as mostly paragons.

EDIT: Fixed quote


Well, romances tend to be more personal compared to Paragon or Renegade "choices" or content.   I rarely saw threads complaining about that.  


I actually do remember quite a few threads complaining about how the game handled a lot of the renegade decisions, like the Rachni, the Collector Base, etc. I'm also not sure why it is that how personal a game feature is relevant to the issue at hand (namely, whether there should be roughly the same number of LI's available to both straight and LGBT players.

#1956
Hellion Rex

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dreamgazer wrote...

(hiccup)


*passes out*

#1957
Plaintiff

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, that's what I said. Read it again.

The prevalence of lesbian options over gay male and straight female options just proves beyond any doubt that the romances in the ME series exist for the titllation of the straight male audience, not to provide any sort of in-depth characterisation, and certainly not for any sense of 'realism', despite what the ignorant may claim.


Or it could've had something to do with that fact that 82% of players played as a male, and they were using their resources wisely. They didn't spend a bunch of money creating something that many people wouldn't use or witness.

Also, the amount of gay options matches the amount of lesbian options. You can argue that lesbians had it easier since their option was introduced in ME1, but that lesbian option had to do more with the fact that the Asari are unisexish. 

The fact that straight males are the majority has no relevance to my assertion that the lesbian romances exist for their titliiation. If anything, it rather supports the point.

No, lesbians have four options in ME3, compared to the two for gay males. I wasn't counting Liara's availability in ME1, but that still doesn't speak well for the ME series as a whole.

#1958
AresKeith

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spirosz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Economic viability doesn't factor into the equation.


I get the feeling that their PR speak has got you fooled more than you realize.  



Bamboozled?

#1959
Hellion Rex

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AresKeith wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Economic viability doesn't factor into the equation.


I get the feeling that their PR speak has got you fooled more than you realize.  



Bamboozled?

Confuzzled?

#1960
GreyLycanTrope

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The Mad Hanar wrote...
Or it could've had something to do with that fact that 82% of players played as a male, and they were using their resources wisely. They didn't spend a bunch of money creating something that many people wouldn't use or witness.

Also, the amount of gay options matches the amount of lesbian options. You can argue that lesbians had it easier since their option was introduced in ME1, but that lesbian option had to do more with the fact that the Asari are unisexish. 

Actually from what I've read Thane and Jacob weren't originally planned to be scrapped at all. According to Weekes they just plain forgot Thane was a romance option when writing the Citadel coupe at some point due to them juggling multiple storylines. So it comes down to poor planning and failing to notice the issue when they were scrambling to finish the project as opposed to an actual bias.

#1961
David7204

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You know, pretty much anything and everything in video games can has to be claimed to be for the sole purpose of satisfying basement dwelling teenage boys.

Play as a female? It's because developers wanted to give teenage boys something to look at.
Play as a male? It's because developers wanted to give teenage boys a power fantasy of being strong and handsome.
Romance option with an innocent and naive girl? Must be nerd bait built to satisfy power fantasy of being in control.
Romance option with a professional and experienced woman? Must be to nerd bait to satisfy power fantasy of being wanted.
Romance with smart character? Power fantasy.
Romance with ditzy character? Power fantasy.

#1962
David7204

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Gay option? Power fantasy. You're so popular even the guys want you.

Lesbian option? Power fantasy. It's obviously nerd basement dwellers to get off to.

More gay options than lesbian options? Power fantasy. Obviously it was done to give basement dwellers the impression that they're vastly attractive and charismatic, more so than female characters.

More lesbian than gay options? Power fantasy. Obviously it was done to give basement dwellers more material to oogle.

Modifié par David7204, 02 décembre 2013 - 04:13 .


#1963
dreamgazer

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Focus on your point, David.

#1964
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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I'd been avoiding this thread.

Now I see why.

#1965
David7204

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Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.

#1966
spirosz

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David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


I don't get it.

#1967
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David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


Woah, calm down. We hear you.

#1968
Milan92

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spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


I don't get it.


I think he has a power fantasy.

#1969
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Plaintiff wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, that's what I said. Read it again.

The prevalence of lesbian options over gay male and straight female options just proves beyond any doubt that the romances in the ME series exist for the titllation of the straight male audience, not to provide any sort of in-depth characterisation, and certainly not for any sense of 'realism', despite what the ignorant may claim.


Or it could've had something to do with that fact that 82% of players played as a male, and they were using their resources wisely. They didn't spend a bunch of money creating something that many people wouldn't use or witness.

Also, the amount of gay options matches the amount of lesbian options. You can argue that lesbians had it easier since their option was introduced in ME1, but that lesbian option had to do more with the fact that the Asari are unisexish. 

The fact that straight males are the majority has no relevance to my assertion that the lesbian romances exist for their titliiation. If anything, it rather supports the point.

No, lesbians have four options in ME3, compared to the two for gay males. I wasn't counting Liara's availability in ME1, but that still doesn't speak well for the ME series as a whole.


Ah, sorry. I thought you were talking about legitimate romances and not random one night stands. 

So you basically are advocating for a bunch of male on male romances since obviously having male on female or female on female is pandering to a straight audience, right? Or a lot of male and female romances could just be displaying what normally goes on this world.

I'll tell you what. Go to the bar and try to pick up some women. Then try to pick up some men. Tell me how that goes for you. Hell, even try to get one of your female friends to do that.

Even so, ME1 had an even amount of romances for each type of sexual preference. If Liara had been a male only option, then you'd be complaining. Since she isn't, it's gives Mass Effect a bad name? Okay.

Not everyone in life is gay. Not everyone in a story should be gay.  It doesn't make any sense to set it up in that way, to be frank. Liara didn't hook up with in a female because she's a female in ME1. She hooked up with a female because gender doesn't mean anything to her species.

#1970
Hellion Rex

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David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


Thanks for shattering my ear drums.

#1971
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


I don't get it.


I think it's broken. 0_0

#1972
AresKeith

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spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


I don't get it.


It has begun

#1973
Lebanese Dude

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eluvianix wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Power fantasy. POWER FANTASY.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTASSSSY.


Thanks for shattering my ear drums.


Omg you have a superpower for hearing typed words :blink:

#1974
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dreamgazer wrote...

Focus on your point, David.

What point?

#1975
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This is obviously the kind of great discussion Priestly was talking about when he claimed the game forums were a more constructive and less toxic place than Off-Topic.