22 réponses à ce sujet

[JPCamden]

So I've made my Dalish Rogue, and he's fun, but I'd rather be able to just stand in the middle of the pack and beat the crap out of everyone. So I want to make a warrior. I've done some research and talked to some people. Now, I don't really wanna be a tank. I'd rather just do a bunch of damage.

If I make a SnS character, is he going to be that much worse than a DW? Damage wise?

I want to do a lot of damage, but I don't want to die easily either. So I was thinking of doing a DW with max str, and 36 dex (Thanks for mosspit). But I started a human and a dwarf game, and they both start with a skill already in SnS, so would it be better just to go this route? Or do they pale in comparison to a DW?

I guess my question is: Does a SnS have to be a tank? 

I guess the DW tree is just better for DPS huh? Looks like it has more attack talents. Anyway, your input is very welcome, and appreciated.

[Lord Phoebus]

JPCamden wrote...

If I make a SnS character, is he going to be that much worse than a DW? Damage wise?

About 50% less damage.  The don't have momentum and dual striking and no AoE attacks.

I want to do a lot of damage, but I don't want to die easily either. So I was thinking of doing a DW with max str, and 36 dex (Thanks for mosspit). But I started a human and a dwarf game, and they both start with a skill already in SnS, so would it be better just to go this route? Or do they pale in comparison to a DW?

Well they can be better defensively, the champion's shield is an extra 15 defense and they have shield wall and shield defense.  So they can take more of a pounding, though a dex based DW can tank quite well too.

I guess my question is: Does a SnS have to be a tank? 

Yes, pretty much any effective way you build one, they will be a tank.  They just don't have the offensive talents.

[JPCamden]

Okay, another question then.

How's the Dagger DW damage compared to a STR - Sword DW? I can take more of a beating with 2 daggers and dex, but how will my damage be? I just think the SnS looks so much cooler. Walking around with a shield and sword seems classic.

I guess if I do a lot of damage, I won't have to worry about taking a beating if they die quickly enough. Now I only have to figure out if I want to make him a human or a dwarf. Ha..

Modifié par JPCamden, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:19 .

[Tyradra]

I roll a double templar group, and I must say, the damage output is simply stupid. My PC does an absurd amount alone; Alistair isn't far behind. They don't compete with Shale, but for a sword and board spec, it's pretty awesome. My PC also doesn't die pretty much ever, either.

[JPCamden]

So your PC is a SnS, I take it?

[Tyradra]

Yessir, full SnS spec. Templar/Champion.

[Carodej]

JPCamden wrote...

Okay, another question then.

How's the Dagger DW damage compared to a STR - Sword DW? I can take more of a beating with 2 daggers and dex, but how will my damage be? I just think the SnS looks so much cooler. Walking around with a shield and sword seems classic.

I guess if I do a lot of damage, I won't have to worry about taking a beating if they die quickly enough. Now I only have to figure out if I want to make him a human or a dwarf. Ha..

If you want to go DW Dagger, the general consensus seems to be to do it with a Rogue.  (Though it's not strictly necessary, of course, as you can win the game with any half way decent build.)  Anyway, the dagger builds do better one on one DPS, while two swords does better AoE DPS.  I haven't bothered to pay attention to the numbers enough, but my dexterity DW Rogue (using daggers) cut down opponenets with ease and took very little damage as I got to the higher levels.

SnS does look pretty nice though, and they have some good abilities at higher levels.  You become immune to flanking, have stuns/knockdowns (which are especially useful when a party member is grabbed by an Ogre), and immune to knockdown while using Shield Wall.  Typically you build this with just enough stength to wear the armor you want (usally tier 7 massive armor, or possibly a tier 6 if it has other bonuses that you prefer) and then pump dexterity to increase defense and attack.  With the high dex these characters have, you usually do better damage with a dagger and shield than with a sword (or axe or mace).

Anyway, at higher levels, either DW or 2H will significantly out DPS the SnS builds.  But since you can win with any of them, the best thing to do is choose what you want to play.  Though you might want to consider that as far as warior party members go, you get one that is set to be SnS and two for 2H, but none for DW.  Though you will get a rogue that is set up to be DW.

Modifié par Carodej, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:52 .

[Lord Phoebus]

JPCamden wrote...

Okay, another question then.

How's the Dagger DW damage compared to a STR - Sword DW? I can take more of a beating with 2 daggers and dex, but how will my damage be? I just think the SnS looks so much cooler. Walking around with a shield and sword seems classic.

It depends, a dagger will give you 0.425 points of damage per ability point in strength and dex while a sword will get 1 point from per point of strength.  But this isn't the whole picture, daggers are about 15% faster, that makes the contribution about .5 to 1, but when you add in runes, mage buffs and poisons these benefit from daggers more than swords.  To use dual swords you need a 36 dex, so you will have a fairly even dex and strength for a while.  And roughly speaking two daggers will be better until your strength is a few points higher than your dex.  With special attacks the animations are the same, so swords will be better even when your strength is a few points lower than your dex.  If you're comparing the 80 Strength/36 Dexterity character with daggers and swords at end game,  double daggers probabaly deal about 70-80% of the damage of double swords depending on how much rune/poison/buff damage you have.

[Sarielle]

You won't get as much DPS from sword and board, but I have to say it's the most fun I've had playing sword and shield in a game. Just throwing that out there. The shield moves are creative and well animated, and the shield bash is immensely satisfying.





Just throwing in my 2 cents because that fact made me very happy, lol.

[GreekGamer]

Well i started as a Dalish Elf Rogue too and i like it because i love bows.Now i made a Human dual wielder and(in hard mode) i am really impressed,i mean the damage is completely awesome in compare to sword and shield.Also i don't agree with many people about the daggers.Yes you might be quicker and have a bit more chances of a critical hit but the ignoring the fact that with two swords the damage of you skills is going up and i mean REALLY up.Also just think this.Two swords with 2slots each(i don't know if there is a one hand sword or axe with 3slots) with a master ruin on them.Hmmm what that makes...lets see...5+5+5+5...its about...+20dmg and if the target has a weakens on one of the elements you are using the dmg is much,much higher(of curse you can always put a ruin to decrease the speed or doing something eels besides dmg to the target but i prefer dmg so...)!And besides the main bosses like the high dragon and the arch demon don't have resistant to any of them(i dont really remember if the high dragon has a resistance to fire but arch demon dosent.Thats why to make sure i wont have any problem with resistances i use electricity or cold ruins).So thats what i think,i might be wrong because i don't stand and cound each and every detail of each class dmg and stuff but for the time being i am really satisfied from DW so i am going to keep him.

Oh and something eels.Yes actually sword and shield is a pure tank style(since they can take so much dmg and they have many skills to stan or throw down the enemy with their shield.But their dmg its quiet low so if you want a tank to make the main dmg and not your mages or rogues you best chance is either 2h warrior or a DW) but you need really strong back up help that's why i made my character and the two mages i was using really strong and raised the health of Alister as well as his strength so even if he had a low rate of successful hits on the most flexible enemies those hit's were really counting.And because my character was a ranger i had 5 members(the 5th was the summoned pet) instead of 4.2 tanks(Alistair/Bear) 1 dmg mage(Morrigan) a healer mage(Wynne) and a ranger(Me).

[JPCamden]

Yeah the SnS does look fun. But I guess I can use Alistair for that. I just got the game a few days ago, so I'll have plenty of time to play everyone, I suppose.



Are there any badass shields in the game? Guess that's a dumb question, just wanted to throw it out there.

[Sarielle]

JPCamden wrote...

Yeah the SnS does look fun. But I guess I can use Alistair for that. I just got the game a few days ago, so I'll have plenty of time to play everyone, I suppose.

Are there any badass shields in the game? Guess that's a dumb question, just wanted to throw it out there.

I think so. But I played my SnS girl on easy (already played with a SnS Arcane Warrior on normal, but, you don't get the fun animations so I did a redux version of her, lol) so I can also go somewhat for looks over stats.

I can't remember what all I used on normal...but on the easy playthrough I bought the Warden Shield so I could run around with double-griffons on my back.

[knownastherat]

JPCamden wrote...

.. I'd rather be able to just stand in the middle of the pack and beat the crap out of everyone ..

Taking this out of context I think of DW Dex heavy build here. 25 Strenght for Death Blow gives, with items obtainable quite early (Key, Helm, ring, Shadow armor, and .. Blessing) 38+ Stenght wich opens some options, while pumping Dex most of the time make such character pretty hard to get hit for a large part of the game, shining in tough meele encounters such are Revenants or groups of (bandits) archers included. Also for substantial part of the game such build can use sword (and dagger) with little difference in DPS, again opening some options. As usual, it depends what does one want her/his character to do, and what one wants his/her group to do? If there were Scimitars there would be no question, but there are not ..

Modifié par knownastherat, 18 janvier 2010 - 01:22 .

[JPCamden]

I think I'm just too indecisive. Or maybe I'm overwhelmed. There's so many options, I don't know where to begin. I made a Rogue Elf backstabber, but (don't hate me for saying this) he's boring. I never control my tank, so maybe that's why. So I have to run around and stab people in the back. I'd rather just stand still and beat people down.

I tried making an archer before that, but I didn't know what I was doing and he sucked. I just read the handbook topic again and I guess if I made one again, I'd pump up cunning and get Lethality. I love using archers in these kinds of games but I was under the impression that they were nerfed on the consoles (I play on 360).

Now having played my Rogue Backstabber, I figured I'd want something that I could just stand around and kill everyone. So warrior sounded like my best chance. But now having read that topic again, I kind of want to go back and remake my archer. I still want to make a warrior of course, so now I just don't know where to begin. Hmm.. if I made an archer, I wouldn't take much damage, I guess? I'd stand in the back and just spam Shattering Shot or Slaying Shot or whatever it's called.

Haven't tried Whirlwind yet though... Ugh this game has too much to do.

[Carodej]

@Greekgamer, your point about the extra damage for runes is actually one of the reasons DW daggers can do better than swords. First off, the number of slots depends on the tier of the weapon, currently the maximum for 1H weapons, 2H weapons, and daggers is 3 slots (tier 7, dragonbone). If you have Grandmaster damage runes, that's potentially +15 damage with each weapon, or +30 total. And since this is the same for daggers as swords, and since daggers are faster, they do that +30 more often than swords.



@JPCamden, if you haven't already tried the human noble origin, you might want to check it out. About half way through your time in your castle you get a pretty decent sword and shield (well, decent for a low level). For looks as well as protection, I have to say I really like the Grey Warden armor from the Warden's Keep DLC. I usually put it on Alistair (unless I give him Templar armor), but would be appropriate for the PC too. There is a matching shield, but it's a random drop in that part of the game, so if you really want it you need a save before the fight with the thing wearing the armor (trying not to be too spoilerish). You can also get a couple of the best swords in the game there.

[Carodej]

JPCamden wrote...

I think I'm just too indecisive. Or maybe I'm overwhelmed. There's so many options, I don't know where to begin. I made a Rogue Elf backstabber, but (don't hate me for saying this) he's boring. I never control my tank, so maybe that's why. So I have to run around and stab people in the back. I'd rather just stand still and beat people down.
I tried making an archer before that, but I didn't know what I was doing and he sucked. I just read the handbook topic again and I guess if I made one again, I'd pump up cunning and get Lethality. I love using archers in these kinds of games but I was under the impression that they were nerfed on the consoles (I play on 360).
Now having played my Rogue Backstabber, I figured I'd want something that I could just stand around and kill everyone. So warrior sounded like my best chance. But now having read that topic again, I kind of want to go back and remake my archer. I still want to make a warrior of course, so now I just don't know where to begin. Hmm.. if I made an archer, I wouldn't take much damage, I guess? I'd stand in the back and just spam Shattering Shot or Slaying Shot or whatever it's called.
Haven't tried Whirlwind yet though... Ugh this game has too much to do.

LOL, yeap, lots of choices.  And the amazing thing, once you learn what you're doing so many of them are fun (but which work best for you really does depend on your play style).

I am on the PC, but archery is gimped on the console.  It was gimped on the PC as well, until the latest patch.  I don't know when they're going to path the console for this, but last I read they had not.

So I would suggest leaving off the archer for now (you can still do one, but you will do much less damage than you're supposed to).  And talents like Scattershot are great - until a horde of enemy archers spam them on you!    Arrow of Slaying is also cool, does massive damage to a single target.  Shattering Shot is good too, (don't these names sort of sound alike?), but not as fun as the others, IMO.

If you just want to be able to get into a slug fest and not worry too much, that's a bit tough, at least at the beginning.  You really tend to be most effective when activating talents in the approptiate situations.  The SnS tank builds normally focus on dex and they tend to be prety good at survival throughout the game.  Plus they do have fun talents to play with.  Their main drawback is they don't do the least damage (except for the archers, at least on console).

2H does some great damage, but really only at the end, and they tend to be very vulnerable if you don't watch them (for me, they're the ones most likely to die if you haven't put good tactics on them and don't watch their health).

DW does great damage too, but since you didn't like it as a rogue, I am not sure you'd like it as a warrior.  Though you don't have to maneuver as much.  Also, but you can put on a few sustainables at the same time - Momentum (the best sustainable for DW), Dual Striking, and Precise Striking.  Then mostly just go attack.  You should hit pretty well and do decent damage too.

Honestly, what I did at first is play several different sorts through the various origins.  I tried to get a feel for which origins I liked best (amazingly, I really liked all of them), as well as which suited which type of role I wanted to play.  Plus it gave me a chance to play around with different weapon and talent combinations.

[JPCamden]

Yeah the Noble origin is cool so far, I just got done with it. I made him a DW guy. Gonna use 2 swords hopefully. I didn't like the DW Rogue cause it just seemed like too much work. I didn't want to have to run behind people to be effective, and even when I'm behind them, I only use one sword to stab them, so what's the point of that? If I'm DW, I should stab them with both.



I like the Dalish origin and the Dwarf Noble origin as well. Revenge is always a good motivator.



I think I really want to try the Sword and Shield. Even though I know it does less damage, it just looks so awesome. But.. I wanna kill ****, not take a beating. I dunno. I'll just try both I guess.

[Carodej]

Well, you can always try a SnS build with a focus on strength. You still need some dex to get the talents, but your trade off will give you more damage while making yourself easier to hit. Just play around a bit. I've probably gone though Ostragar over 20 times just trying out different builds just to see how they feel.

BTW, if you like revenge, and don't want it delayed as in Dwarf and Human Noble, try the City Elf. The City Elf also gets a pretty good long sword righ before the first combat too (though it's name sucks). Hmm, at least you get this as a male, not sure as a female as they play a little differently there.

Modifié par Carodej, 18 janvier 2010 - 02:51 .

[Sarielle]

Carodej wrote...

The City Elf also gets a pretty good long sword right too (though it's name sucks). Hmm, at least you get this as a male, not sure as a female as they play a little differently there.

You get it as a female too.

[Carodej]

Sarielle wrote...

Carodej wrote...

The City Elf also gets a pretty good long sword right too (though it's name sucks). Hmm, at least you get this as a male, not sure as a female as they play a little differently there.

You get it as a female too.

Ah, good to know.  It's the only origin I haven't tried as both sexes, I've been reluctant because I dislike feeling helpless.  But getting revenge on Vaughn is excellent.  And in the one time I finished my playthrough, it was with a Dwarf Noble, but recalling him from this origin I killed him again.  It was just as satisfying as the first time. 

[Sarielle]

Carodej wrote...
Ah, good to know.  It's the only origin I haven't tried as both sexes, I've been reluctant because I dislike feeling helpless.

You don't really feel helpless, if that'll tempt you to try it, lol.

[knownastherat]

DW Warrior, NM Gax, level 18, 8% spell resist rune, Spellward - could not do it without it in Jugg nor Ancient Elven, pots, anything

img132.imageshack.us/img132/2465/screenis.jpg
img132.imageshack.us/img132/6097/statssw.jpg

[Carodej]

Sarielle wrote...

Carodej wrote...
Ah, good to know.  It's the only origin I haven't tried as both sexes, I've been reluctant because I dislike feeling helpless.

You don't really feel helpless, if that'll tempt you to try it, lol.

Actually, yes, thank you.    But after my messing around a lot to get a feel for the game plus my one full playthrough, I now already have 4 others I've started that I hope to take to completion.  So I think I'll focus on them first before starting a new one.