276 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

How do you define an RPG game? ME2 did not have the bells and whistles of ME1 and ME3 in terms of customization but it arguably had the strongest character interactions. There were also more missions that had meaningful choices, those of which were essential in crafting what type of character Shepard was....which is what I would say is "role-playing."

To this day, I enjoyed ME2 the most and it wasn't because of the pew-pew.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:51 .

[The Night Mammoth]

WittingEight65 wrote...

But Bethesda's most succesfull game (Skyrim) is not even close to the sales of a good Shooter (And Skyrim took like 5 years of development, while a Shooter takes 1 year?).

Skyrim sold about ten million copies in less than seven months. 

Whatever notions you have in your head about it not even being close to the sales of 'a good shooter' (whatever that's defined as), is probably wrong.

Also, not everything is about sales, or massive profits. FromSoftware, the developers of Dark Souls, were extatic about selling one million copies, probably because they had a reasonable budget, good management, and realistic expectations for the niche market they were targeting. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 01 juillet 2013 - 01:55 .

[Nole]

Yes, I think Bioware's strength are the characters too. That's why I wouldn't mind if their next title is like ME2, but as a standalone game.

[Bleachrude]

Ok...you know what...I think we're losing track of what the OP was indicated...

*reads it again*

The OP believes that the next ME will follow the trend of sci-fi shooters and be either the FCW or the Reapers invasion of earth...

Now, looking at it, this question makes no sense. Again, haven't we been doing this exact same thing since ME1? When the geth invaded Eden prime in ME1, what the hell were we doing but not fighting off an alien invasion.

(as an aside, isnt ME along with Gears and Halo, the big space sci-fi shooters of this current generation?....if anything, I've noticed on other forums that other fans of different franchise consider any sci-fi shooter with "Use space magic with guns!!" to be influenced by Mass Effect.

I mean, go to the Gearbox forums and pretty much everyone considers Sirens to be biotics in everything but name.....hell, I noticed the same thing with the new Destiny ip from Bungie..people are already imagining/calling the classes as biotics. Hell, I'e seen articles written about the mech based shooter, Warframe that pretty much calls it "Mass effect meets robots" as the warframes use biotic style moves...).

Basically, isn't ME the actual trend setter?

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Had nothing to do with what I said... 

I said, adding a mode that takes away elements that make the game unique, is silly. It would be like adding romance options in Call of Duty. The choice being there doesn't bother me, the fact they would put something in like that makes me laugh however.

I don't care why you use it.

You clearly can't read correctly. I said, adding an option that detracts key elements from the game is silly.

Action mode itself being there does not detract anything, when turned on it does however remove key features of the game. That is what makes me laugh, is when people play Mass Effect single player without making decisions.

Why even play Mass Effect 3 then? There are far better games out there if action and gameplay is what you want. Many people would agree the combat is not the selling point, even though it has the best out of all three games. 

Maybe you should learn to read before replying. Might help you out in the future.

No it has everything to do with what you said.  You keep saying Action mode is silly.  Action mode was designed for gamers who like the TPS elements of ME3 and not the RPGs.  So for those gamers it is not silly.  Your entire argument is based on the idea that ME3 is strictly an RPG when the reality is for other gamers like those that play almost exclusively multiplayer, it is a TPS.

Creating a game that appeals to more people is not silly.  It is what profit making companies do and the fact that you are still confused by the notion that ME3 was designed to appeal to RPGers with the normal mode and TPSers with Action Mode shows a fundamental lack of business acumen.

[KaiserShep]

So exactly how does action mode affect the story mode version of the game? I've never tried it as it doesn't interest me, but any ME title that goes the same general way 3 does (mechanically that is) will satisfy me just fine.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 01 juillet 2013 - 03:23 .

[Dextro Milk]

remydat wrote...

So, if Call of Duty added cheesy romance options, you wouldn't find it funny at all?  

It's like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. What is your deal here? I can't laugh at people that play a game where choice is one of the biggest selling points and then they decide to turn it off because "boom boom action good, talking bad"?

What I still find funny, is that you are crying about me laughing at the silly addition to Mass Effect 3. :happy:

[AlanC9]

It's only silly if people didn't like it.

Did people like it? Not having the telemetry data, I've got no goddamn idea.

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

So, if Call of Duty added cheesy romance options, you wouldn't find it funny at all?

It's like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. What is your deal here? I can't laugh at people that play a game where choice is one of the biggest selling points and then they decide to turn it off because "boom boom action good, talking bad"?

What I still find funny, is that you are crying about me laughing at the silly addition to Mass Effect 3.

Umm I was debating another poster who said ME3 was less of a RPG due to action mode despite the fact they don't actually play action mode. I was not talking to you and frankly couldn't care less what your opinion was. You then decided to respond to a post not directed at you calling me by name so I said just like the other poster you guys are crying about a mode you don't even play and hence has no impact on your experience.

Look you are free to believe what you want. However, your opinion is not rational. Once again, Action Mode is aimed to attract a different type of gamer without affecting gamers who like RPGs. Bioware is a business designed to make money. Any decision that increases the chances of it making money is not silly.

Thus, in order for your orginal claim that it is silly to be true you need to provide evidence that it does not attract people attracted to TPS. You have yet to do that and in fact keep ignoring this point which is why I am saying you are crying. So again, defend you statement that it is silly.  Explain to me why it is silly for a business to try and appeal to a different type of gamer by creating a mode that actually doesn't impact the RPG mode at all?  Otherwise, you are just complaining to complaining which is what I call crying.  You have offered no logical reason to consider it silly for a business to attract a different target audience.

Modifié par remydat, 01 juillet 2013 - 04:09 .

[Dextro Milk]

AlanC9 wrote...

It's only silly if people didn't like it.

False.

How you feel on whether or not a game mechanic is silly or not, is completely subjective.

This is why I don't get why Remy is trying to argue. I think people that play with action mode are silly. If you don't, good for you. So hey Remy, I don't care about whatever long ass post you write next. I think it's silly, you are not going to change that. Move on.

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

False.

How you feel on whether or not a game mechanic is silly or not, is completely subjective.

This is why I don't get why Remy is trying to argue. I think people that play with action mode are silly. If you don't, good for you. So hey Remy, I don't care about whatever long ass post you write next. I think it's silly, you are not going to change that. Move on.

Your opinion is your opinion.  You are free to have it.  However, it is a pretty silly opinion to have with no support.  Calling a business silly for trying to attract more consumers is completely irrational unless you have evidence it failed.

Just like it is completely silly to tell someone to move on when they were never talking to you in the first place and you decided to respond to them.  If anyone needs to move on it is you because you decided to respond to me.  I was never talking to you.  You decided to tell me your opinion and call me by name.

[Dextro Milk]

remydat wrote...

Move on Remy, I'm done with you. I already gave you my "support" for why I found it silly.

[darthrevaninlight]

remydat wrote...

No it has everything to do with what you said.  You keep saying Action mode is silly.  Action mode was designed for gamers who like the TPS elements of ME3 and not the RPGs.  So for those gamers it is not silly.  Your entire argument is based on the idea that ME3 is strictly an RPG when the reality is for other gamers like those that play almost exclusively multiplayer, it is a TPS.

Creating a game that appeals to more people is not silly.  It is what profit making companies do and the fact that you are still confused by the notion that ME3 was designed to appeal to RPGers with the normal mode and TPSers with Action Mode shows a fundamental lack of business acumen.

No.

Action mode is just not right.

Publilius Syrus, “To do two things at once is to do neither.”

If a game is trying to appeal to TPS players, they should make a game that is geared entirely at that audience. If a game is trying to appear to RPGers then they should make a game geared entirely towards THAT audience. To try to be both games will result in being neither. Nothing within this universe can be two things at once, and to try to do so would be to fail horribly.

So Bioware's action mode was a mistake. To spend anytime programming that rather than moving towards their original goal would be an utter waste of time. RPGers and TPSers want two entirely different things from a videogame. 

And I believe a lot of ME3's mistakes centered around this problem; trying to please everyone rather than just letting ME be what ME is.



On Topic: I think the next game will be comparable to ME3. <_< But that's due to my "Expect the worst, usually get something better" philosophy.

Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 01 juillet 2013 - 04:26 .

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

remydat wrote...

Move on Remy, I'm done with you. I already gave you my "support" for why I found it silly.

You provided no evidence.  You provided a silly opinion.

http://www.digitalsp...-rpg-modes.html

I mean how much clearer does Bioware need to be?  They flat out told you that for newcomers they will get to choose between Action Mode, Story Mode, and RPG Mode.  Emphasis on newcomers. 

And once again, you responded to me so you can move on.  If you want to call my name then do so with sensible opinions that you can actually back up.  Otherwise, don't call my name.  If you do then I will continue to call your opinion silly until you can actually back it up.

Modifié par remydat, 01 juillet 2013 - 04:23 .

[spirosz]

Action mode is designed for a certain experience, which can be in relation to any type of gamer, even the so called "hardcore" gamer. The thing is, if said individual has done countless playthroughs, maybe he or she would prefer just to have a breeze with the game, so "Casual Mode" would be for them, for example. Or maybe someone is doing a walkthrough specifically on a "Biotic" build and wants to be able to skip everything more quickly, so this mode allows them the ability to create more videos quicker and such. There are a lot of variables for those two modes, but one thing is for sure, that doesn't rule out the mindset of aiming it towards a "certain" type of gamer.

Modifié par spirosz, 01 juillet 2013 - 04:26 .

[Dextro Milk]

remydat wrote...

Move on Remy.

You seem upset. Maybe because you use action mode exclusively? Hah, Aye, I bet you struggle with the choices in Mass Effect 3. Too hard on you. You have my sympathy., silly one.

It is silly, because you don't go into Call of Duty for RPG elements, and you don't go into Mass Effect for "no choices".

Seriously, past your bed time kid. 

[Iakus]

darthrevaninlight wrote...

If a game is trying to appeal to TPS players, they should make a game that is geared entirely at that audience. If a game is trying to appear to RPGers then they should make a game geared entirely towards THAT audience. To try to be both games will result in being neither. Nothing within this universe can be two things at once, and to try to do so would be to fail horribly.

So Bioware's action mode was a mistake. To spend anytime programming that rather than moving towards their original goal would be an utter waste of time. RPGers and TPSers want two entirely different things from a videogame. 

And I believe a lot of ME3's mistakes centered around this problem; trying to please everyone rather than just letting ME be what ME is.

After ME2 I was convinced that the two could be mixed:  It was just a matter of getting the proportions right (as I didn't think ME2 had it quite right)  After ME3, now I'm not so sure.There always seems to be a demand for watering down the RPG elements.

[remydat]

darthrevaninlight wrote...

No.

Action mode is just not right.

Publilius Syrus, “To do two things at once is to do neither.”

If a game is trying to appeal to TPS players, they should make a game that is geared entirely at that audience. If a game is trying to appear to RPGers then they should make a game geared entirely towards THAT audience. To try to be both games will result in being neither. Nothing within this universe can be two things at once, and to try to do so would be to fail horribly.

So Bioware's action mode was a mistake. To spend anytime programming that rather than moving towards their original goal would be an utter waste of time. RPGers and TPSers want two entirely different things from a videogame. 

And I believe a lot of ME3's mistakes centered around this problem; trying to please everyone rather than just letting ME be what ME is.

What original goal?  You are imposing your goals on Bioware.  Their goal is to make money.  They decided that for ME3, the best way to do that was to create a game that a newcomer could decide how to play without it impacting any other mode.  Action mode does not impact someone playing Story mode and neither impacts someone playing RPG mode.  I started out playing RPG mode but I play action mode now because I have seen the Story over and over and my only interest in the game now is multiplayer and the Insanity single player game play.

So no it was not a mistake.  Until you can prove one mode impacted another, this is argument makes no sense.

http://www.digitalsp...-rpg-modes.html

[Ryuji2]

Skimmed a bit through this thread, putting in my two cents.

The fact is that a well established franchise like Mass Effect shouldn't have to change to cater to fans of TPS games. Mass Effect in of itself is a sci-fi RPG that happens to have TPS combat but the main emphasis is the story.

Take away parts of the story and the choices via adding "Action Mode" actually does affect the story itself. The system itself has to change to allow both, which takes away from adding in more choice options for the original fans of the series.

Auto-dialogue had to be put in to allow Action Mode to exist, to a point. Makes things too complicated and the auto-choices wouldn't work out so well.

TPS fans want action, original Mass Effect fans wanted more story. Mass Effect 3 tried to cater to both and thus became...less of itself. In other words, the whole idea behind choices and changing the story by your actions is made null just for extra people? Makes sense in terms of making money, but in doing so gives the middle finger to original fans that had story they wanted get cut just so the TPS fans could focus less on story and more on action.

[ShepnTali]

spirosz wrote...

Action mode is designed for a certain experience, which can be in relation to any type of gamer, even the so called "hardcore" gamer. The thing is, if said individual has done countless playthroughs, maybe he or she would prefer just to have a breeze with the game, so "Casual Mode" would be for them, for example. Or maybe someone is doing a walkthrough specifically on a "Biotic" build and wants to be able to skip everything more quickly, so this mode allows them the ability to create more videos quicker and such. There are a lot of variables for those two modes, but one thing is for sure, that doesn't rule out the mindset of aiming it towards a "certain" type of gamer.

Good point, and I never looked at it that way. Kind of handy for a quick, experimental playthrough. It certainly wasn't necessary, and I never played action mode, but I can see it's uses for various reasons.

[spirosz]

iakus wrote...

After ME2 I was convinced that the two could be mixed:  It was just a matter of getting the proportions right (as I didn't think ME2 had it quite right)  After ME3, now I'm not so sure.There always seems to be a demand for watering down the RPG elements.

Same, but ME3 did very well in terms of powers and such, where ME2 had the best balance of dialogue input for the player and amount of "auto-dialogue" IMO. 

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Move on Remy.

You seem upset. Maybe because you use action mode exclusively? Hah, Aye, I bet you struggle with the choices in Mass Effect 3. Too hard on you. You have my sympathy., silly one.

It is silly, because you don't go into Call of Duty for RPG elements, and you don't go into Mass Effect for "no choices".

Seriously, past your bed time kid. 

I have no problem continuing this conversation.  You are the one that appears to want to move on but want to get the last word in. 

And your opinion is silly because before the game came out Bioware told you that you could go into Mass Effect for no choices.  Bioware made the game and straight up told everyone that they could play with no choices if they just wanted to enjoy the combat. 

http://www.pcgamer.c...mode-explained/

[AresKeith]

spirosz wrote...

iakus wrote...

After ME2 I was convinced that the two could be mixed:  It was just a matter of getting the proportions right (as I didn't think ME2 had it quite right)  After ME3, now I'm not so sure.There always seems to be a demand for watering down the RPG elements.

Same, but ME3 did very well in terms of powers and such, where ME2 had the best balance of dialogue input for the player and amount of "auto-dialogue" IMO. 

One step forward, two steps back it seems sadly