22 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaun Shepard]

 So a few days ack in the overrated weapons section i said that the typhoon was overrated. Man was I wrong, after Deerber's comment saying that the typhoon is not inferior to the PPRi decided to give it a secong try on my destroyer and I was impressed the only reason I'm still hstile towards the typhoon is that it is a  nerfed gun and as I don't like nerfing it will never be viewed by me as say cerberus harrier level although I find them to be pretty much equal. So i have a few questions-

Does the typhoon really give damage reduction?
I have some stability issues with it on my destroyer although this is mostly due to it being lv2 ,any helpful mods for the typhoon?
Which other characters are better on it?(I think turian soldier
Finally which mods are the best on it or any other assault rifle, the heavy barrel+clip or exended barrel+piercing otherwise which mod is best on it?
Lastly, do you think hawk launchers are worth it, how to spec multi frags or a good devastator + typhoon build.

FINALLY biower pls unnerf the typhoon.
TL;DR lazy people can get out of here.

[BridgeBurner]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

Does the typhoon really give damage reduction?

No, it's supposed to, but it doesn't. Lazy coding and lack of testing on bioware's part.

Jaun Shepard wrote...
I have some stability issues with it on my destroyer although this is mostly due to it being lv2 ,any helpful mods for the typhoon?

I play on PC, so mouse basically gives you all the stability you need, as far as console goes, perhaps try using a stability module on your armour equipment bonus, and / or barrage upgrade.

Jaun Shepard wrote...
Which other characters are better on it?(I think turian soldier

Turian soldier is very overrated in a lot of instances, the destroyer still is king with automatics.

Jaun Shepard wrote...
Finally which mods are the best on it or any other assault rifle, the heavy barrel+clip or exended barrel+piercing otherwise which mod is best on it?

For straight up damage, always go extended barrel + extended magazine and AP IV. However, HVB + Clip and warp IV works well against reapers and collectors. Phasic III + HVB + Magazine is very powerful versus geth and cerberus.

Jaun Shepard wrote...
Lastly, do you think hawk launchers are worth it, how to spec multi frags or a good devastator + typhoon build.

I've never taken HML, and no I don't think HML is worth it when compared to multi-frags.

This is how I would build a BrophoonDestroyer.



The most important thing with the typhoon, is that you are always using 90% (or more) armour piercing, or armour weakening. The gun loses a lot of damage to armour if you don't have high piercing / weakening.

Modifié par Annomander, 29 juin 2013 - 02:08 .

[DHKany]

Hawk launcher is better for PPR (and CSR), sine it relies far more on sustained fire.

[Deerber]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

 So a few days ack in the overrated weapons section i said that the typhoon was overrated. Man was I wrong, after Deerber's comment saying that the typhoon is not inferior to the PPRi decided to give it a secong try on my destroyer

Nah, don't listen to him. He's a scrub 

Jaun Shepard wrote...

So i have a few questions-

Does the typhoon really give damage reduction?
I have some stability issues with it on my destroyer although this is mostly due to it being lv2 ,any helpful mods for the typhoon?
Which other characters are better on it?(I think turian soldier
Finally which mods are the best on it or any other assault rifle, the heavy barrel+clip or exended barrel+piercing otherwise which mod is best on it?
Lastly, do you think hawk launchers are worth it, how to spec multi frags or a good devastator + typhoon build.

FINALLY biower pls unnerf the typhoon.
TL;DR lazy people can get out of here.

1. About the DR, it's still not completely clear. The dev stated that it gives some sort of additional DR, but some initial tests seemed to indicate that that function was bugged. However, during those tests it was discovered that our understanding of how DR works was limited, and our new understanding of it didn't exclude the possibility that the Typhoon actually gives DR under certain circumstances. Sadly, noone bothered to test it more deeply so noone knows for certain, I'm afraid.

2. Tons of characters are great with it. There's a thread around that is just about that, take a look 

3. Mods. Since the Typhoon is a gun that heats up, it needs the extended clip. That's not negotiable. Then, given how low the damage per bullet is, you also need the best armor DR reduction possible. To achieve that, you can either put AP IV and extended barrel, or the HVB and any other ammo you'd like. Against certain enemies, extended barrel + warp IV might work too, although I'm not sure, one should run the numbers. Finally, each AR is different and it's therefore hard to advice for a single mod configuration for them all, but a pretty usual loadout is clip+barrel+AP ammo, on a weapon class at least.

4. Well, talking strictly about the typhoon, the hawk launcher has a better synergy with it since you don't need to stop firing to use that power. But. Honestly, multi fraqs are so powerful that speccing out of them is a mistake, in my opinion. Anyway, that is a discussion probably worth of its own thread, as people will give you a whole number of different opinions.

[Tybo]

Deerber wrote...

Jaun Shepard wrote...

 So a few days ack in the overrated weapons section i said that the typhoon was overrated. Man was I wrong, after Deerber's comment saying that the typhoon is not inferior to the PPRi decided to give it a secong try on my destroyer

Nah, don't listen to him. He's a scrub 

Jaun Shepard wrote...

So i have a few questions-

Does the typhoon really give damage reduction?
I have some stability issues with it on my destroyer although this is mostly due to it being lv2 ,any helpful mods for the typhoon?
Which other characters are better on it?(I think turian soldier
Finally which mods are the best on it or any other assault rifle, the heavy barrel+clip or exended barrel+piercing otherwise which mod is best on it?
Lastly, do you think hawk launchers are worth it, how to spec multi frags or a good devastator + typhoon build.

FINALLY biower pls unnerf the typhoon.
TL;DR lazy people can get out of here.

1. About the DR, it's still not completely clear. The dev stated that it gives some sort of additional DR, but some initial tests seemed to indicate that that function was bugged. However, during those tests it was discovered that our understanding of how DR works was limited, and our new understanding of it didn't exclude the possibility that the Typhoon actually gives DR under certain circumstances. Sadly, noone bothered to test it more deeply so noone knows for certain, I'm afraid.

2. Tons of characters are great with it. There's a thread around that is just about that, take a look 

3. Mods. Since the Typhoon is a gun that heats up, it needs the extended clip. That's not negotiable. Then, given how low the damage per bullet is, you also need the best armor DR reduction possible. To achieve that, you can either put AP IV and extended barrel, or the HVB and any other ammo you'd like. Against certain enemies, extended barrel + warp IV might work too, although I'm not sure, one should run the numbers. Finally, each AR is different and it's therefore hard to advice for a single mod configuration for them all, but a pretty usual loadout is clip+barrel+AP ammo, on a weapon class at least.

4. Well, talking strictly about the typhoon, the hawk launcher has a better synergy with it since you don't need to stop firing to use that power. But. Honestly, multi fraqs are so powerful that speccing out of them is a mistake, in my opinion. Anyway, that is a discussion probably worth of its own thread, as people will give you a whole number of different opinions.

I disagree.  If you plan on using the destroyer as a weapons class, imo you are best off skipping HML due to the screen shake it gives.  MFGs give you an on demand stagger and AoE power to kill tight spawns as well, while you can focus your weapon usage on bosses and stragglers.  However, if you want to use it as a grenader, then HML is awesome.  

I personally use 6/6/6/4/4, and run it as a hybrid grenader with a piranha and an adrenaline mod.  It is my ultimate no skill spray and pray, grenade spam class.


Also, I don't feel like searching now, but I'm fairly certain Cyonan checked Typhoon DR in cover as well, and found that it still did nothing.

Modifié par tyhw, 29 juin 2013 - 12:21 .

[BridgeBurner]

From our understanding of what bioware told us...

-Being in cover reduces the damage you take by 40% (so, reduces it from 140% to 100%)

-This damage reduction is lost when you "lean out" of cover to shoot

-The typhoon is supposed to allow you to lean out of cover, and any enemy shooting at you in a 90 degree cone in front of you will no longer gain the out of cover damage bonus (40%), allowing you to shoot out of cover using the typhoon without taking the extra damage from leaning out.

This has been tested and proven to be broken.

[Deerber]

tyhw wrote...

I disagree.  If you plan on using the destroyer as a weapons class, imo you are best off skipping HML due to the screen shake it gives.  MFGs give you an on demand stagger and AoE power to kill tight spawns as well, while you can focus your weapon usage on bosses and stragglers.  However, if you want to use it as a grenader, then HML is awesome.  

I personally use 6/6/6/4/4, and run it as a hybrid grenader with a piranha and an adrenaline mod.  It is my ultimate no skill spray and pray, grenade spam class.


Also, I don't feel like searching now, but I'm fairly certain Cyonan checked Typhoon DR in cover as well, and found that it still did nothing.

Uhm, I didn't mean to say that HML is better than the grenades, at all. I just wanted to point out that it synergizes better with the Typhoon because of the ramp-up. I never had much problem with the screnshake by HML, it's pretty light, and if you miss a couple of bullets with a Typhoon it doesn't really matter much, in my opinion.

About the DR, I seemed to recall that Cyonan's tests were done before he (or whoever it was) understood how the DR really works, and that under the new "rules" the tests he did were not perfectly valid. But, I may be wrong and recall wrong 

[MattyDCB]

 I was one of the people in that thread.  Arctican and I exchanged some PMs about it, and he exchanged some PMs with Derek and Cyonan about it.  This is the quote I was thinking of when I said a dev commented that features like that were considered in balancing:
 Derek Hollan said
We always have to take more in consideration than dps and weight. The combined factors of given weapons (including their passives) are also what gives them their particular niche. The Typhoon, for example, has damage reduction for the player when leaning out of cover. This is something that places it in its own category. This combined with its penetration bonus means the player doesn't need the piercing mod and can use another mod instead. So, while the pure DPS of the Typhoon might not stack up against other ARs, it does have advantages those other weapons do not.


I don't know exactly where that came from.  I found it quoted by Jay_Hoxatron, who said it was from Derek.  
Derek told Arctican that "The Typhoon does give the damage reduction. This being said, it only gives damage reduction in a cone in front of you. Flanking enemies and explosions will ignore it."  And that the DR was active in a "Front cone, approx 45% to left and right."
Finally, Cyonan said he tested it again, ensuring that the enemy was in the front cone, and did not see any extra damage resistance, taking the same damage with the Typhoon out as not having it out. Cyonan did not say if he was leaned out of cover (aiming), but I'm assuming he was since he said he was in chest high cover and likely wouldn't have been shot at all if he wasn't popped up. 
TL;DR - According to devs, it should have DR in a limited cone in front of it when firing or aiming from cover. So far, no one has found that it works.
Copy and pasted off another thread.There's another thread somewhere with test data to prove this theory.

[Jaun Shepard]

Ok thanks guys I must try this all out I have another question i just checked dps values and the spitfire doesn't seem so bad why the hate against it? PS it may seem like my spellings are nooby but thats because I'm not good at typing on my laptop.

[Jaun Shepard]

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here I am running both hawk missiles and grenades so does this mean my build is wrong because everyone assumes I'm running either one of them?

[asdpoiu]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here I am running both hawk missiles and grenades so does this mean my build is wrong because everyone assumes I'm running either one of them?

Run whatever you feel like.

[ryoldschool]

My destroyer is speced with hml, no grenades. It also on devasator mode takes accuracy at rank 4 and magazine size at rank 5. I do that because I use both the ppr and typhoon with this build ( not at the same time, lol ).

Ppr does not need accuracy at rank 4, and typhoon might prefer the rof at rank 5. But hml works great with both. It's a compromise build but saves respec cards because I enjoy using both guns.

For the spitfire, try the ghost ( any assault rifle is good with it ) you can move around well with the jet packs. But honestly it needs a damage boost so I would use it mainly on the jugg for the geth weapon boost.

[BridgeBurner]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

Ok thanks guys I must try this all out I have another question i just checked dps values and the spitfire doesn't seem so bad why the hate against it? PS it may seem like my spellings are nooby but thats because I'm not good at typing on my laptop.

The spitfire is rather lacking in terms of armour damage. It does good damage to everything bar armour, which is unfortunate as the only protection which you really need to bother about is armour.

The spitfire is good versus geth and cerberus, ok versus collectors and terrible versus reapers. The spitfire's TTK is arguably better than the typhoons, particularly for bosses like geth primes, as the typhoon can't 1clip a prime, wheras the spitfire can.

As for your other question, the vast majority of people run either 6/6/0/6/6 or 6/0/6/6/6

Though somepeople run strange builds with the destroyer, I would argue the optimal build would be to ignore HML entirely, max devastator mode, grenades, passives and fitness. Destroyer with full fitness is surprisinly tanky, particularly if you use an adrenaline module. You have your typhoon for bosses, typhoon + grenades for trash and a secondary if you ever run out of ammo. The stagger and pathetic amount of damage provided by HML isn't worth investing in, unless you're planning on goiing a really unorthodox build, like tyhw's 6/6/6/4/4 or 6/6/6/6/0, neither of which are going to be more effective than 6/0/6/6/6

Modifié par Annomander, 29 juin 2013 - 01:43 .

[ryoldschool]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here I am running both hawk missiles and grenades so does this mean my build is wrong because everyone assumes I'm running either one of them?

hell, no build is wrong.  There is a guy that showed a devasator mode free build was pretty good ( although I would never try that ).  Most of us have respeced these characters many times trying to find what works for them.  I like going into matches not having to scramble for grenades with the other players and if I use the ppr I don't worry about ammo boxes at all really.

but this is a great game with lots of variables, so try what u want.

having said all that I think the 6th evolution of hawk missile launcher ( hydra missiles ) is important.

i go shield penalty, armor damage, hydra missiles. 

[sharkboy421]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here I am running both hawk missiles and grenades so does this mean my build is wrong because everyone assumes I'm running either one of them?

Using both means you are giving up something in the other 3 skills which is not considered optimal for the Destroyer. 

While HML and multi-frags are good powers, the Destroyer really shines with his weapon damage and in order to maximize this you need to max out DM and his passive.  In addition, he is also a very slow character with no dodge but he has stronger shields to partially compensate for this.  So it is also a very good idea to max out fitness and take health and shields.

This leaves you with enough points to max out either HML or frags, or combo the two.  However neither power is all that impressive at anything less than max.  The build Anno linked you earlier is considered one of the ideal builds for the Destroyer and I find it to be the best.

For fun you should also try the Brophoon out on a flamerless Geth Trooper.  Spec Fort for all damage reduction, HM for weapons and damage, passive for weapon damage and fitness for shields.  He plays similar to the Destroyer but trades a little bit of damage for more durability and wall hacks.  I find that build to be a lot of fun and works great with the Brophoon.

[BridgeBurner]

sharkboy421 wrote...

Jaun Shepard wrote...

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here I am running both hawk missiles and grenades so does this mean my build is wrong because everyone assumes I'm running either one of them?

Using both means you are giving up something in the other 3 skills which is not considered optimal for the Destroyer. 

While HML and multi-frags are good powers, the Destroyer really shines with his weapon damage and in order to maximize this you need to max out DM and his passive.  In addition, he is also a very slow character with no dodge but he has stronger shields to partially compensate for this.  So it is also a very good idea to max out fitness and take health and shields.

This leaves you with enough points to max out either HML or frags, or combo the two.  However neither power is all that impressive at anything less than max.  The build Anno linked you earlier is considered one of the ideal builds for the Destroyer and I find it to be the best.

For fun you should also try the Brophoon out on a flamerless Geth Trooper.  Spec Fort for all damage reduction, HM for weapons and damage, passive for weapon damage and fitness for shields.  He plays similar to the Destroyer but trades a little bit of damage for more durability and wall hacks.  I find that build to be a lot of fun and works great with the Brophoon.

Oh my beloved wall-banger weapons platform trooper

[CHAw]

Out of curiosity, Jaun, have you gotten any upgrades to your N7 Typhoon between the time you stopped using it and now?

When the second nerf was released, I stopped using the N7 Typhoon for a time as well, because the reduction in effectiveness was quite noticeable for me (also, I was annoyed because I'd finally gotten it only 2 days before, after spending more than 13 million credits trying to get it). But after a while, I got an upgrade for it, and started using it again because I missed the feel of it. And then I got a few more upgrades, and I found it really starting to increase in power.

Mine is at rank V now, and although it still doesn't feel like quite the powerhouse it used to be, it is pretty good. I begin to see why BioWare thought the nerf was necessary, although I do think it should have been done in a way that was less harsh on low level Typhoons.

[sharkboy421]

Annomander wrote...

sharkboy421 wrote...

Jaun Shepard wrote...

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here I am running both hawk missiles and grenades so does this mean my build is wrong because everyone assumes I'm running either one of them?

Using both means you are giving up something in the other 3 skills which is not considered optimal for the Destroyer. 

While HML and multi-frags are good powers, the Destroyer really shines with his weapon damage and in order to maximize this you need to max out DM and his passive.  In addition, he is also a very slow character with no dodge but he has stronger shields to partially compensate for this.  So it is also a very good idea to max out fitness and take health and shields.

This leaves you with enough points to max out either HML or frags, or combo the two.  However neither power is all that impressive at anything less than max.  The build Anno linked you earlier is considered one of the ideal builds for the Destroyer and I find it to be the best.

For fun you should also try the Brophoon out on a flamerless Geth Trooper.  Spec Fort for all damage reduction, HM for weapons and damage, passive for weapon damage and fitness for shields.  He plays similar to the Destroyer but trades a little bit of damage for more durability and wall hacks.  I find that build to be a lot of fun and works great with the Brophoon.

Oh my beloved wall-banger weapons platform trooper

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

[BridgeBurner]

CHAw wrote...

Out of curiosity, Jaun, have you gotten any upgrades to your N7 Typhoon between the time you stopped using it and now?

When the second nerf was released, I stopped using the N7 Typhoon for a time as well, because the reduction in effectiveness was quite noticeable for me (also, I was annoyed because I'd finally gotten it only 2 days before, after spending more than 13 million credits trying to get it). But after a while, I got an upgrade for it, and started using it again because I missed the feel of it. And then I got a few more upgrades, and I found it really starting to increase in power.

Mine is at rank V now, and although it still doesn't feel like quite the powerhouse it used to be, it is pretty good. I begin to see why BioWare thought the nerf was necessary, although I do think it should have been done in a way that was less harsh on low level Typhoons.

Pre-nerf typhoon I:

44.4 *2 = 88.8 damage per shot once ramped up


Post-nerf typhoon X:

55.5*1.5 = 82.25 damage per shot once ramped up

Typhoon I pre nerf was stronger than typhoon X is post-nerf.

GG bioware.

Bioware butchered the gun, when what really needed nerfing was the destroyer. The synergy was just too good, yet the gun paid the price for Devastator mode being too powerful.

[capn233]

Hawk Missile is somewhat decent if you plan to run the PPR on the Destroyer. It is also ok with the Typhoon. If you are going to run any precision weapon, don't run HML, unless you want frustration.

[Jaun Shepard]

Well I unlocked the typhoon after retaliation so no I never tasted it prenerf

[Creator Limbs]

I hate the Typhoon. Constant, sustained fire is not my favorite thing to do.

[iOnlySignIn]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

any helpful mods for the typhoon?

Extended Magazine is a must. Also some form of piercing (AP Ammo or Piercing Mod) is very necessary.

Which other characters are better on it?(I think turian soldier

Destoryer, Turian and Human Soldiers. Because they have means to further extend the magazine of the Typhoon, which is the most important for this weapon.

Lastly, do you think hawk launchers are worth it, how to spec multi frags or a good devastator + typhoon build.

HML > MFG for several reasons.

(1) Destoyer severely lack mobility. Mobility is essential for effective use of Grenades, since you need to catch spawns before they disperse for the Grenades to be worth it.

(2) If you can't catch spawns, and are facing single isolated enemies, HML is far superior because it provides perfect CC (think of it as a Concussive Shot that fires itself), greatly improving your survivability but still allowing you to fire your weapon in the process.

(3) If you use MFG only occassionally as an Oh Sh!t button, it will of course do much less damage than the HML over the course of a game. And with HML, you don't need this Oh Sh!t button anyway since all the annoying enemies (Phantoms, Hunters, Abominations) are CC'd before they can get to you.

So yeah, unless most of the games you play are speedruns on small maps like Glacier or Goddess, HML > MFG.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 29 juin 2013 - 04:45 .