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More ethnic diversity in character creation and npc's


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#276
Silfren

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Ollys wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Ollys wrote...
Ethnic diversity is really good thing,cuz it gives more flexability to character creation.
But good only till it goes according to lore, where orlesians look like orlesians and etc and it dont reach hollywood movies level with afro-american knights in medieval england.
 


Medieval England has nothing to do with it. And I don't think I need to remind you that Thedas isn't actually a real place from history.

What's ridiculous is that the response to someone saying "I'd like to make a character who looks like me" means page upon page of morons (speaking generally, not referring to you) crying crocodile tears about the integrity of the fictional setting that we by no means know everything about yet.

 
what we know from first two games and from books - there is no any asians and any semi-asian inspired culture in Thedas. So asian protagonist will be look out of character. Blacks are ok, we have dark skinned mans form corkari wild in DAO, so they exist in Thedas. All must go according to lore, or game just lose sence and visibility of inner logic.


On the contrary, there was one minor NPC from Origins, in the city of Denerim, that most people tend to flag as Asian. 

Blacks are okay to have in Thedas? Wow, thank you for your generosity! 

#277
Lennard Testarossa

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Plaintiff wrote...
Alexandre Dumas was black! I learned that from Django Unchained.


Wasn't he like, one quarter black?

#278
Enigmatick

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Ollys wrote...
 
 sence and visibility of inner logic.

You think that the BSN community cares about those things still? I wish I could be as innocent as you.

#279
Silfren

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[quote]Lennard Testarossa wrote...

[Quote]Silfren wrote...
Isabela has unquestionably been whitewashed. [/quote]

Isabela can't possibly be whitewashed as Bioware is the authority on what she looks like.[/quote]

Congratulations!  You've just written the most stupid thing I've yet read on this thread!

[Quote]Silfren wrote...
Um, what? I don't know what it is you think privilege means, but this is just incoherent. I'll reiterate: (white) privilege comes from racism. [/quote]

It is not the slightest bit incoherent. What I've quoted there as privilege is what I've seen pointed out as privilege countless times. If it's too difficult for you to understand, here's a very simple question:

Do you think that the majority of protagonists in (western) video games being white is white privilege?[/quote]

I think the fact that majority of entertainment media insists that white has to be the default, because otherwise white people can't relate, and black people don't read books, play games, or watch movies is white privilege.

#280
Thiefy

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Ollys wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Ollys wrote...
Ethnic diversity is really good thing,cuz it gives more flexability to character creation.
But good only till it goes according to lore, where orlesians look like orlesians and etc and it dont reach hollywood movies level with afro-american knights in medieval england.
 


Medieval England has nothing to do with it. And I don't think I need to remind you that Thedas isn't actually a real place from history.

What's ridiculous is that the response to someone saying "I'd like to make a character who looks like me" means page upon page of morons (speaking generally, not referring to you) crying crocodile tears about the integrity of the fictional setting that we by no means know everything about yet.

 
what we know from first two games and from books - there is no any asians and any semi-asian inspired culture in Thedas. So asian protagonist will be look out of character. Blacks are ok, we have dark skinned mans form corkari wild in DAO, so they exist in Thedas. All must go according to lore, or game just lose sence and visibility of inner logic.

 
You know i cant help but think that as an asian person who said "i'd like to make a pc who looks like me" that this whole quote pyramid is related to me. :mellow:

#281
Plaintiff

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Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Alexandre Dumas was black! I learned that from Django Unchained.


Wasn't he like, one quarter black?

Does the ratio of black to white make any difference? Colour is colour.

The only photos I've found are black and white, obviously, so it's hard to describe his exact skin tone.

All the portraits of his father portray the man as being pretty dark-skinned, I imagine Dumas would be close to that.

#282
Silfren

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Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Alexandre Dumas was black! I learned that from Django Unchained.


Wasn't he like, one quarter black?


In the U.S. at least, thanks to racial politics, you look black, you are black. 

#283
AlanC9

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Plaintiff wrote...

All the portraits of his father portray the man as being pretty dark-skinned, I imagine Dumas would be close to that.


Wouldn't this depend on his mother to some extent?

#284
Silfren

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Plaintiff wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Alexandre Dumas was black! I learned that from Django Unchained.


Wasn't he like, one quarter black?

Does the ratio of black to white make any difference? Colour is colour.

The only photos I've found are black and white, obviously, so it's hard to describe his exact skin tone.

All the portraits of his father portray the man as being pretty dark-skinned, I imagine Dumas would be close to that.


Image IPB

I have a feeling that most people looking at this would peg him as black.

#285
Lennard Testarossa

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Silfren wrote...
Congratulations!  You've just written the most stupid thing I've yet read on this thread!


I love how you just say "That's incoherent!" or "That's stupid!" when you've got no arguments.

Silfren wrote...
I think the fact that majority of entertainment media insists that white has to be the default, because otherwise white people can't relate, and black people don't read books, play games, or watch movies is white privilege.


Oh, that's what they think? Please point me to some statistics or surveys that prove this to be true.

Also, people finding it easier to identify with their own ethnicity isn't racism. It's the very reason this thread exists.

#286
Gileadan

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Plaintiff wrote...

The lore is just the lore. Lore in other works of fiction gets retconned ALL THE TIME, and the authors just say "Yeah, we changed it because we wanted to", and miraculously, everyone manages to not crap their pants over it.


Han shot first!  

Right, that aside.

I don't see any problem with allowing people to create any character they want. It merely requires
a) appropriate effort put into the character generator, offering great variety of facial features, skin tones and hair
B) a fitting selectable background for such a character

Since the entire world is not fully fleshed out yet as far as I have seen, and since it was announced that we would pick our backgrounds instead of playing them (right?), one such background could be that your character is from a far away land (not yet mentioned in the lore). Arrived here as an aimless wanderer and got involved in the conflict, or survived a ship wreck (the ship being from their home land of course) as a kid and grew up in (pick established country available for other characters), or something similar.

There. No lore was harmed in the making of this character.

#287
Ollys

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Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Ollys wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Ollys wrote...
Ethnic diversity is really good thing,cuz it gives more flexability to character creation.
But good only till it goes according to lore, where orlesians look like orlesians and etc and it dont reach hollywood movies level with afro-american knights in medieval england.
 


Medieval England has nothing to do with it. And I don't think I need to remind you that Thedas isn't actually a real place from history.

What's ridiculous is that the response to someone saying "I'd like to make a character who looks like me" means page upon page of morons (speaking generally, not referring to you) crying crocodile tears about the integrity of the fictional setting that we by no means know everything about yet.

 
what we know from first two games and from books - there is no any asians and any semi-asian inspired culture in Thedas. So asian protagonist will be look out of character. Blacks are ok, we have dark skinned mans form corkari wild in DAO, so they exist in Thedas. All must go according to lore, or game just lose sence and visibility of inner logic.

 
You know i cant help but think that as an asian person who said "i'd like to make a pc who looks like me" that this whole quote pyramid is related to me. :mellow:


 
Well, you can hope and dream that Bioware will retcon Dragon Age and Jade Empire - both games has dragon gods, sort of fade and stuff and jade empire region with they asian culture is isolated part of Thedas, lol. :D

#288
AlanC9

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Plaintiff wrote...

The lore is just the lore. Lore in other works of fiction gets retconned ALL THE TIME, and the authors just say "Yeah, we changed it because we wanted to", and miraculously, everyone manages to not crap their pants over it.


Maybe Bio's holding asians in reserve in case they want to introduce another human culture to the mix.

#289
FKA_Servo

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Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

You know i cant help but think that as an asian person who said "i'd like to make a pc who looks like me" that this whole quote pyramid is related to me. :mellow:



My comment was actually referencing the OP, but obviously the sentiment extends to pretty much everyone.

For what it's worth, this isn't remotely the first time we've seen this thread. Your emoticon there is an accurate portrayal of my reaction whenever it comes up.

#290
What a Succulent Ass

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Ollys wrote...

They must be some sort of captured and converted to christianity saracins or abissinians and they sure dont move and act like normal people of these society. Probably more like jesters at rich courts.

I was going to write an unnecessarily long post about this, but f*ck it, not unless you're going to dash me some change.

Ali, Ahmed, and Ibrahim Ali.  The Black Celts: An Ancient African Civilization in Ireland and Britain. Cardiff: Punite Publications, 1992.
Dabydeen, David, ed.  The Black Presence in English Literature. Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1985.
Edwards, Paul, and James Walvin.  "Africans in Britain, 1500-1800." The African Diaspora: Interpretive Essays. Edited by Martin L. Kilson and Robert I. Rotberg. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1976: 173-204.
Higgins, Godfrey.  Celtic Druids: Or,  An Attempt to Show, that the Druids were the Priests of Oriental Colonies who Emigrated from India, and were the Introducers of the First or Cadmean System of Letters, and the Builders of Stonehenge, or Carnac, and of Other Cyclopean Works, in Asia and Europe. 1829; rpt. Los Angeles: Philosophical Research Society, 1977.
Johnson, Rosalind.  "African Presence in Shakespearean Drama: Parallels Between Othello and the Historical Leo Africanus." African Presence in Early Europe. Edited by Ivan Van Sertima. New Brunswick: Transaction Press, 1985: 276-87.
Jones, E.D.  Othello’s Countrymen: The African in English Renaissance Drama. London: Oxford University Press, 1965.
 Luke, Don.  "African Presence in the Early History of the British Isles and Scandinavia." African Presence in Early Europe. New Brunswick: Transaction Press, 1985: 223-44.
The Mabinogion.  Translated with an Introduction by Gwyn Jones and Thomas Jones. London: Dent, 1957.
MacKenzie, Donald A.  Ancient Man in Britain. Foreword by Grafton Elliot Smith. London: Blackie, 1922.
MacManus, Seaumas.  The Story of the Irish Race: A Popular History of Ireland. New York: Devin-Adair, 1921.
MacRitchie, David.  Ancient and Modern Britons: A Retrospect, 2 Vols. 1884; rpt. Introduction by William Preston. Los Angeles: Preston, 1985, 1986.
Massey, Gerald. A Book of the Beginnings: Containing an Attempt to Recover and Reconstitute the Lost Origines of the Myths and Mysteries, Types and Symbols, Religion and Language, with Egypt for the Mouthpiece and Africa as the Birthplace. Volume 1, Egyptian Origines in the British Isles. 1881; rpt. Secaucus: University Books, 1974.
Morien.  Translated from the Medieval Dutch by Jessie L. Weston. London: Nutt, 1901.
Rashidi, Runoko.  "Ancient and Modern Britons: A Review Essay." African Presence in Early Europe. Edited by Ivan Van Sertima. New Brunswick: Transaction Press, 1985: 251-60.
Rogers, Joel Augustus.  Nature Knows No Color-Line: Research Into the ****** Ancestry in the White Race. 3rd ed. New York: Rogers, 1952.
Rogers, Joel Augustus.  Sex and Race, Volume 1. 9th ed. New York: Rogers, 1967.
Scobie, Edward.  Black Britannia: A History of Blacks in Britain. Chicago: Johnson, 1972.
Scobie, Edward.  "African Women in Early Europe." African Presence in Early Europe. Edited by Ivan Van Sertima. New Brunswick: Journal of African Civilizations, 1985: 202-22.
Scobie, Edward.  "The Black in Western Europe." African Presence in Early Europe. Edited by Ivan Van Sertima. New Brunswick: Transaction Press, 1985: 190-202.
Scobie, Edward. Global African Presence. Introduction by Ivan Van Sertima. Brooklyn: A&B, 1994.
Skene, William F.  Celtic Scotland, 3 Volumes. 1876; rpt. Freeport, 1971


Black Celts.

Creation of race and the den*ggafication of England.

Era of Severus.

I could go on. And that's just England, not Europe with its Mongol invasions, centuries-long dominion of black and Arab Muslims, West and North African academic exchange, or the trans-Asian and general African trade.

At no point in history were people sitting on their hands with rocks in their ears and sand in their eyes.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 01 juillet 2013 - 06:59 .


#291
AlanC9

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Silfren wrote...

I have a feeling that most people looking at this would peg him as black.


I concur, but mostly because of the hair.

#292
Plaintiff

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AlanC9 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

All the portraits of his father portray the man as being pretty dark-skinned, I imagine Dumas would be close to that.


Wouldn't this depend on his mother to some extent?

I've got no info about his mother, apparently she wasn't very important, but if she possessed magical ovaries that could erase melanine from her gestating spawn, I think we would've heard about it.

#293
Silfren

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Lennard Testarossa wrote...
Also, people finding it easier to identify with their own ethnicity isn't racism. It's the very reason this thread exists.


Yet people of color are expected to identify with white people ALL THE TIME.

#294
FKA_Servo

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Ollys wrote...
Well, you can hope and dream that Bioware will retcon Dragon Age and Jade Empire - both games has dragon gods, sort of fade and stuff and jade empire region with they asian culture is isolated part of Thedas, lol. :D


:mellow:

#295
Sylvianus

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Ollys wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Ollys wrote...
Ethnic diversity is really good thing,cuz it gives more flexability to character creation.
But good only till it goes according to lore, where orlesians look like orlesians and etc and it dont reach hollywood movies level with afro-american knights in medieval england.
 


Medieval England has nothing to do with it. And I don't think I need to remind you that Thedas isn't actually a real place from history.

What's ridiculous is that the response to someone saying "I'd like to make a character who looks like me" means page upon page of morons (speaking generally, not referring to you) crying crocodile tears about the integrity of the fictional setting that we by no means know everything about yet.

 
what we know from first two games and from books - there is no any asians and any semi-asian inspired culture in Thedas. So asian protagonist will be look out of character. Blacks are ok, we have dark skinned mans form corkari wild in DAO, so they exist in Thedas. All must go according to lore, or game just lose sence and visibility of inner logic.

The stolen throne = Ferelden
The Calling = Ferelden
Asunder = orlais. ( and mostly in specific locations )

That's hardly Thedas.

#296
Silfren

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Plaintiff wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

All the portraits of his father portray the man as being pretty dark-skinned, I imagine Dumas would be close to that.


Wouldn't this depend on his mother to some extent?

I've got no info about his mother, apparently she wasn't very important, but if she possessed magical ovaries that could erase melanine from her gestating spawn, I think we would've heard about it.


Wikipedia only says that she was the daughter of an innkeeper.  It's silent about her ethnicity.

#297
Lennard Testarossa

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Silfren wrote...
Yet people of color are expected to identify with white people ALL THE TIME.


Indeed. You still haven't pointed out to me how that comes from racism, though.

#298
Thiefy

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Ollys wrote...

Well, you can hope and dream that Bioware will retcon Dragon Age and Jade Empire - both games has dragon gods, sort of fade and stuff and jade empire region with they asian culture is isolated part of Thedas, lol. :D

 
Is it too much for me to just ask to be treated like an equal instead? If other races don't need an explanation to exsist I fail to see why mine own doesn't merit the same respect.

#299
Steelcan

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Can't we just sit back and enjoy a game, not worry constantly about diversity on race, sexual orientation, etc...

It's a fantasy video game, nothing more.

#300
Silfren

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Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Yet people of color are expected to identify with white people ALL THE TIME.


Indeed. You still haven't pointed out to me how that comes from racism, though.


People of color are expected to identify with white people, whereas a common reason given why there are no black people is because us poor whites couldn't relate...you can't see how this just screams racism????