642 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
People of color are expected to identify with white people, whereas a common reason given why there are no black people is because us poor whites couldn't relate...you can't see how this just screams racism????

Plaintiff wrote...
How is it not self-evident?

"It's obvious!" is a nice way of saying "I've no idea how to substantiate my claims..."

Let me quote wikipedia on the definition of racism:

wikipedia wrote...
Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.

People of color are 'expected' to identify with white people because the majority of the market for which the video games they want to play, the films they want to watch, etc. are produced and the majority of the countries in which these things are produced is white. Please tell me how this relates to the notion that other races are inferior.

The notion that black people (or people of any ethnicity, for that matter) are 'expected' to passively accept the fact that they lack representation in media, is absolutely linked to the notion that they are inferior.

They are being disregarded because media producers assume that nobody will notice or care.

[Steelcan]

@Silfren,
The world as a whole is and some large cities are. But in large areas of the world racial diversity is fairly low. And in the past it was always that way until the invention of mass tranaportation.

And guess in which category medieval Europe fell into. They were hardly a tolerant or accepting people.

[Ollys]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Ollys wrote...

Dont you see difference between isolated ghetto-like community and part of militant ruling aristocraty?
Even anglo-saxons not allowed to own land is Sussex after norman invasion.
And yes, i live in county that was captured by mongols for long years. But still, they is almost no blenda-up - one ruling culture and etnic at the time.   

I must have fallen, hit my damn head and started typing in tongues, because there is no way you missed near everything I wrote, that badly.

You're doing the running man when I'm dutty wining, dude.

 
Sorry, but what you wrote was pretty history unrelated. You can just start and stop from posting your only single link on Severus to show your ignorance.

[Gileadan]

JimmyRustles wrote...

..... To answer your question OP. One of the prime reason for this not happening is also because of the limitations of the eclipse enigine. Graphical engines usually have a problem with rendering darker shaders. This was one of the problems that eclipse faced. Frostbite 3 is a beast of an engine and I do wonder how well it is going to attempt to render these darker skin tones.

Well, I'm no expert, but Frostbite 2 didn't have any trouble rendering black skin tones, as any BF3 campaign trailer will show, and I don't think they made it worse for Frostbite 3.

[FKA_Servo]

Steelcan wrote...
@Silfren,
The world as a whole is and some large cities are. But in large areas of the world racial diversity is fairly low. And in the past it was always that way until the invention of mass tranaportation.

And guess in which category medieval Europe fell into. They were hardly a tolerant or accepting people.

Guess who needs to take a history course?

Bonus points if you can point out why this argument is irrelevant to the topic at hand regardless.

Modifié par TommyServo, 01 juillet 2013 - 07:23 .

[Steelcan]

Plaintiff wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
So?  What is your point?  We should have racial diversity in games to prove we arent racists?

We should acknowledge that there are audiences besides the "straight white male" that might be worth appealing to.

They are the largest part of the market.  It is only logical that theyvare the ones being cpurted by publishers and developwrs.

[Enigmatick]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
People of color are expected to identify with white people, whereas a common reason given why there are no black people is because us poor whites couldn't relate...you can't see how this just screams racism????

Plaintiff wrote...
How is it not self-evident?

"It's obvious!" is a nice way of saying "I've no idea how to substantiate my claims..."

Let me quote wikipedia on the definition of racism:

wikipedia wrote...
Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.

People of color are 'expected' to identify with white people because the majority of the market for which the video games they want to play, the films they want to watch, etc. are produced and the majority of the countries in which these things are produced is white. Please tell me how this relates to the notion that other races are inferior.

The notion that black people (or people of any ethnicity, for that matter) are 'expected' to passively accept the fact that they lack representation in media, is absolutely linked to the notion that they are inferior.

They are being disregarded because media producers assume that nobody will notice or care.

The notion that minority in a country doesn't get the same amount of representation that the majority would get is intrinsically linked to the notion they are inferior?

[Lennard Testarossa]

Silfren wrote...
You dont know the first goddamned thing about racism or privilege, sorry.  And no, I'm not going to explain it to you because you clearly aren't interested in intellectual honesty--you'd rather go for deliberate obtuseness instead.

Call it laziness or whatever you want, you're wrong, and no amount of snide comebacks are going to make you less so.

I do love to see my prejudice confirmed.

I am, unlike you, working with clear definitions. Your arguments are exactly what I'd expect from the social justice crowd:

It's racism! Why? 'cause I say so! If you disagree, you're clearly a bigot and don't know that you're talking about.

Not that I expected more...

[Thiefy]

Steelcan wrote...

@Silfren,
The world as a whole is and some large cities are. But in large areas of the world racial diversity is fairly low. And in the past it was always that way until the invention of mass tranaportation.

And guess in which category medieval Europe fell into. They were hardly a tolerant or accepting people.

 
Mass transit? Like ships? Kind of explains how Isabela and probably Duncan got around. Of course, nothing stops people from just doing it the old fashion way and walking. 

[Silfren]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
People of color are expected to identify with white people, whereas a common reason given why there are no black people is because us poor whites couldn't relate...you can't see how this just screams racism????

Plaintiff wrote...
How is it not self-evident?

"It's obvious!" is a nice way of saying "I've no idea how to substantiate my claims..."

Let me quote wikipedia on the definition of racism:

wikipedia wrote...
Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.

People of color are 'expected' to identify with white people because the majority of the market for which the video games they want to play, the films they want to watch, etc. are produced and the majority of the countries in which these things are produced is white. Please tell me how this relates to the notion that other races are inferior.

The notion that black people (or people of any ethnicity, for that matter) are 'expected' to passively accept the fact that they lack representation in media, is absolutely linked to the notion that they are inferior.

They are being disregarded because media producers assume that nobody will notice or care.

It's pointless, Plaintiff. Bashing your head against a spiked wall would be a better use of your time than trying to reason with that one.

[Sutekh]

To get back on Thedas...

Ollys wrote...

Ethnic diversity is really good thing,cuz it gives more flexability to character creation.
But good only till it goes according to lore, where orlesians look like orlesians and etc and it dont reach hollywood movies level with afro-american knights in medieval england. 

How can you tell how Orlesians look like? Not only that's a fictional nationality, but also so far, we have this:



But we also have this:



So which is it, since, apparently, there can be only one?

(also, Thedas is not Earth. The ratio of black people in medieval England is totally irrelevant)

[Steelcan]

TommyServo wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

And guess in which category medieval Europe fell into. They were hardly a tolerant or accepting people.

Guess who needs to take a history course?

Bonus points if you can point out why this argument is irrelevant to the topic at hand regardless.

.  Ever heard of a pogrom?  People who exterminated jews would not likely be ones to accept large populayoona of visully distinct people.  Im not going to deny that people of other races lived in Europe, Im denying that they were a sizable part of the population.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Ollys wrote...

Sorry, but what you wrote was pretty history unrelated. You can just start and stop from posting your only single link on Severus to show your ignorance.

...Sis.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 01 juillet 2013 - 07:26 .

[FKA_Servo]

Steelcan wrote...
They are the largest part of the market.  It is only logical that theyvare the ones being cpurted by publishers and developwrs.

Thankfully, Bioware (alone out of just about every single major developer) feels differently than you do.

[Plaintiff]

billy the squid wrote...
As per usual you make an off hand comment and then scurry away when I point out that it was utterly inane. Oh I have read to Kill a Mocking Bird, but apparantly the idea of the reader's perceptions placing a particular bias on the literature and then drawing from that there is implied content hasn't quiet sunk in for you yet.

Jesus Christ.

There is no "bias" or "absurdity" in merely pointing out that Tolkien's only persons of colour in Lord of the Rings are depicted purely as villains, siding with a world-destroying evil.

Show me the black people who fight against Sauron, and I'll concede that I've misremembered the contents of the trilogy.

Your comparison to To Kill A Mockingbird was however, absurd, biased and absolutely false. Not only does the novel not condemn white society, the heroes of the novel are all white people.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 juillet 2013 - 07:27 .

[billy the squid]

Silfren wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
I submit that To Kill a Mocking Bird is racist because it portrays white society in America in a wholy negative light, discriminating against white society universally.

Maybe you should stick to arguing about books you've actually read.

Yeah, and I know what racist implications written into a narrative are, but I've not quite figured out how a reader can "imply racism" into a book.

I also see that my little gif on implications being a intellectually barren get out clause when you can't make a coherrent point has been lost on you. 

If you can't figure out that I question your intelligence. You just said critics have been claiming that the Lord of the Ring is an allegorical tale. Yet you haven't grasped that your own perception is the determining factor in what you see as the implied content? Wow. 

What I actually said is that critics see allegory in Lord of the Rings.  But that's neither here nor there.  When you write a story where the dark-skinned people are evil and the white people are heroes, there are racist implications. That's not a reader's imaginary perception, it is a critical observation of the writer's biases.

And the dwarves spend their times in the mountains, segregated from other societies and crave gold and riches. It's like the Jews.Ipso Facto Lord or the Rings also implies anti-semetic content. 

I can use the literary content to imply any sort of social ideology based on the flimsiest evidence as you have just done. 

There's a huge difference between critical observation of a writer's bias and your perception implying the bias into the literature. 

[Steelcan]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Silfren,
The world as a whole is and some large cities are. But in large areas of the world racial diversity is fairly low. And in the past it was always that way until the invention of mass tranaportation.

And guess in which category medieval Europe fell into. They were hardly a tolerant or accepting people.

 
Mass transit? Like ships? Kind of explains how Isabela and probably Duncan got around. Of course, nothing stops people from just doing it the old fashion way and walking. 

.  Mass transit like railways, highways, affordable automobiles  planes, that sort of thing.  And once agaon Im not denying the odd one who would travel, Im denying that they were a sizable or permanent part of the population.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Silfren wrote...
It's pointless, Plaintiff. Bashing your head against a spiked wall would be a better use of your time than trying to reason with that one.

Reason implies, you know, reasons. Which you haven't produced so far.

[Jorji Costava]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Yet people of color are expected to identify with white people ALL THE TIME.

Indeed. You still haven't pointed out to me how that comes from racism, though.

Where this becomes problematic is in the assumption that being white is somehow the "normal" or "default way to be, while anything else is a deviation from the norm. The presumption is that anyone from any race can identify with a white person because whiteness is normal, but it's too much to ask of whites that they identify with a black or Asian character. Among other things, this way of thinking is under empirical assault, as anyone familiar with the acronym "WEIRD" would be aware. A growing body of psychological literature suggests that Western Educated Industrialized Rich and Democratic folks are the psychological outliers. I'm not saying there's anything bad about being WEIRD, but the idea that WEIRD people are the most normal doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[Steelcan]

TommyServo wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
They are the largest part of the market.  It is only logical that theyvare the ones being cpurted by publishers and developwrs.

Thankfully, Bioware (alone out of just about every single major developer) feels differently than you do.

.  Im sorry what is the default Hawke?  Warden?  Shepard?  

[Plaintiff]

Enigmatick wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
People of color are expected to identify with white people, whereas a common reason given why there are no black people is because us poor whites couldn't relate...you can't see how this just screams racism????

Plaintiff wrote...
How is it not self-evident?

"It's obvious!" is a nice way of saying "I've no idea how to substantiate my claims..."

Let me quote wikipedia on the definition of racism:

wikipedia wrote...
Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.

People of color are 'expected' to identify with white people because the majority of the market for which the video games they want to play, the films they want to watch, etc. are produced and the majority of the countries in which these things are produced is white. Please tell me how this relates to the notion that other races are inferior.

The notion that black people (or people of any ethnicity, for that matter) are 'expected' to passively accept the fact that they lack representation in media, is absolutely linked to the notion that they are inferior.

They are being disregarded because media producers assume that nobody will notice or care.

The notion that minority in a country doesn't get the same amount of representation that the majority would get is intrinsically linked to the notion they are inferior?

Instead of making my argument up in your head, try reading what I am actually saying.

[FKA_Servo]

Steelcan wrote...
Ever heard of a pogrom?  People who exterminated jews would not likely be ones to accept large populayoona of visully distinct people.  Im not going to deny that people of other races lived in Europe, Im denying that they were a sizable part of the population.

Fundamentally, I'm denying that whatever the racial composition might have been in medieval Europe has any bearing whatsoever on the continent of Thedas, which is full of elves, dwarves and pretend ethnic groups.

I am curious as to why the notion of an asian player character or more than one brown face in a big trading hub like Kirkwall or Denerim is so immersion breaking.

[Steelcan]

The haradrim and rhun of Lord of the Rings aren't evil because they are del skinned, they are evil because they follow Sauron. They are dark because Tolkien understood the correltion between climate and skin color.

[BouncyFrag]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Silfren wrote...
It's pointless, Plaintiff. Bashing your head against a spiked wall would be a better use of your time than trying to reason with that one.

Reason implies, you know, reasons. Which you haven't produced so far.

Don't expect any. I aksed the for same thing a few pages back and got a "GTFO".