642 réponses à ce sujet

[MisanthropePrime]

Silfren wrote...

Nomadiac wrote...

I'd really like more options, but for some peoples (Races? Ethnicities?) it doesn't make sense as the lore currently stands. For example, so far no one in Thedas has been described as looking Asian, so until we get some context for Asian-looking people existing in Thedas, (from a yet-undescribed country, minority population, traders from overseas, etc.) having an Asian PC when no one else around looks Asian doesn't make sense.

That said, black people actually are in Thedas (or at least dark-skinned: the Rivaini are dark-skinned, and Isabela is part-Rivaini), so I suspect that you'll be able to create black characters.

(Also, I don't understand where this idea that Thedas is meant to be a representation of medieval Europe is coming from. It's heavily inspired by that setting, sure (as is nearly all Western fantasy), but it's not historical fiction. There's no reason for Thedas to be constrained by the realities of that period.)

...Since Asia does not exist in Thedas, nobody WILL be described as Asian.  But we did see a character in Origins who had features that most people recognized as Asian.

I know I'm not the only person who finds the "context!  realism!" arguments against diversity to be tedious.

Also, bear in mind that medieval Europe WAS diverse.  I realize you're arguing against people who use this argument, but you're STILL perpetuating the idea that medieval Europe never heard of dark people.  

Medieval Europe was relatively diverse because there was significant intercontinental trade and travel across Asia and Africa, things that do not exist in Dragon Age. Thedas is the world's only continent and they lack the ability to sail to other landmasses, and the Qunari are uninterested in returning to the ones they came from. Europe's ethnic diversity could be found primarily along the Mediterranean, where Africa, Asia and Europe joined in relatively close proximity. There's no such analogue in Thedas.

[jaza]

Silfren wrote...

Nomadiac wrote...

I'd really like more options, but for some peoples (Races? Ethnicities?) it doesn't make sense as the lore currently stands. For example, so far no one in Thedas has been described as looking Asian, so until we get some context for Asian-looking people existing in Thedas, (from a yet-undescribed country, minority population, traders from overseas, etc.) having an Asian PC when no one else around looks Asian doesn't make sense.

That said, black people actually are in Thedas (or at least dark-skinned: the Rivaini are dark-skinned, and Isabela is part-Rivaini), so I suspect that you'll be able to create black characters.

(Also, I don't understand where this idea that Thedas is meant to be a representation of medieval Europe is coming from. It's heavily inspired by that setting, sure (as is nearly all Western fantasy), but it's not historical fiction. There's no reason for Thedas to be constrained by the realities of that period.)

...Since Asia does not exist in Thedas, nobody WILL be described as Asian.  But we did see a character in Origins who had features that most people recognized as Asian.

I know I'm not the only person who finds the "context!  realism!" arguments against diversity to be tedious.

Also, bear in mind that medieval Europe WAS diverse.  I realize you're arguing against people who use this argument, but you're STILL perpetuating the idea that medieval Europe never heard of dark people.  

Having heard of dark people and being diverse are completely different things.

[Silfren]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Nomadiac wrote...

I'd really like more options, but for some peoples (Races? Ethnicities?) it doesn't make sense as the lore currently stands. For example, so far no one in Thedas has been described as looking Asian, so until we get some context for Asian-looking people existing in Thedas, (from a yet-undescribed country, minority population, traders from overseas, etc.) having an Asian PC when no one else around looks Asian doesn't make sense.

That said, black people actually are in Thedas (or at least dark-skinned: the Rivaini are dark-skinned, and Isabela is part-Rivaini), so I suspect that you'll be able to create black characters.

(Also, I don't understand where this idea that Thedas is meant to be a representation of medieval Europe is coming from. It's heavily inspired by that setting, sure (as is nearly all Western fantasy), but it's not historical fiction. There's no reason for Thedas to be constrained by the realities of that period.)

...Since Asia does not exist in Thedas, nobody WILL be described as Asian.  But we did see a character in Origins who had features that most people recognized as Asian.

I know I'm not the only person who finds the "context!  realism!" arguments against diversity to be tedious.

Also, bear in mind that medieval Europe WAS diverse.  I realize you're arguing against people who use this argument, but you're STILL perpetuating the idea that medieval Europe never heard of dark people.  

Medieval Europe was relatively diverse because there was significant intercontinental trade and travel across Asia and Africa, things that do not exist in Dragon Age. Thedas is the world's only continent and they lack the ability to sail to other landmasses, and the Qunari are uninterested in returning to the ones they came from. Europe's ethnic diversity could be found primarily along the Mediterranean, where Africa, Asia and Europe joined in relatively close proximity. There's no such analogue in Thedas.

1. Dragon Age is not the Real World Medieval Period.  It's more similar to the Renaissance, but either way, it is neither of those things.  As evidenced by the matriarchal religion that dominates the world, the presence of mages, dragons, darkspawn, Kossith, etc.  If "we didn't have those things in the medieval world" is your argument, then we should ditch all those other things, too. 

2. Trade does actually exist in Thedas, and where there's trade, there's ethnic diversity.  There's no reason why a port city, which Thedas does have, shouldn't be more diverse.

3. Sea travel is not the only means by which diversity could spread. 

4.  We know for a fact that various ethnicities exist, having seen people in DA who register for players as African, Hispanic/Latino, or Asian.  Since they exist, there is NO REASON not to make them more prevalent.

5. Given that we are discussing a fantasy setting, which is drawn from its creators' knowledge of Earth, but is at NO POINT INTENDED TO BE EARTH, there is really no point whatsoever in griping that the world can't or shouldn't be ethnically diverse because then it wouldn't be realistic. 

[Merc Mama]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Merc Mama wrote...

Now Steve was a great character, ethnically I was blown away by him cause he had a hispanic name, but he didn't conform to a stereotype. He had alittle of this and that and those eyes. Fereldan needs more Steves.

Steve was probably of Afro-Carribean decent, there are people who look like him especially in places like Cuba who have obviously Hispanic last names.

Even better, he had the decent, but he didn't need to be from the country. Dragon age could do that too, so even if you're human, you have elvish decent or dark or light ancestors and there for, you're capable for being any skin tone you want.

[Silfren]

Androme wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Also, bear in mind that medieval Europe WAS diverse.  I realize you're arguing against people who use this argument, but you're STILL perpetuating the idea that medieval Europe never heard of dark people.  

Medieval Europe was not diverse and isn't today. The indigenous populations of all european nations share a common ancestry (race), only with small differences (ethnicity).

No.

Since there are no other races but the one human race (Caucasian people and African people do not constitute two different races, frex), this is technically true, but to use this to claim that there's no such thing as ethnic diversity the most illogically asinine argument I've ever seen.  If you're trying to make a point about the differences between culture and biology, fine, but the fact is that ethnic diversity is a thing, and Europe, then and now, WAS diverse.  Unless you're planning to tell me that black, brown, red, and yellow-skinned persons don't exist, but that really everyone's just different shades of white.

Modifié par Silfren, 30 juin 2013 - 08:27 .

[Darth Death]

Androme wrote...

 It makes sense only for the protagonist if he/she doesn't have a defined ancestral background story-wise, otherwise no.

????

[Angrywolves]

All for that .A Lucy Liu type character like in kill bill as a party member would be nice.

[Neria Rose]

PlasmaCheese wrote...

You aren't alone. =D There were a few dark-skinned elves in Denerim, but not in the Alienage (as far as I can remember). I always had a squee moment when I saw them. I have squee moments whenever I see brown characters..so yea, I would love seeing more. I'd like for them to get our skintones right, too.. My black Warden and Hawke look really shiny/glittery in some light. e_e Unrealistically so.. OH, and curly hair. Please.

Ditto to the first one.

For the second one, yes please! It's rather disappointing when there's a wide variety of straight-haired options, but maybe one curly hair option and not a single coily hair option.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 30 juin 2013 - 08:45 .

[MisanthropePrime]

Silfren wrote...

1. Dragon Age is not the Real World Medieval Period.  It's more similar to the Renaissance, but either way, it is neither of those things.  As evidenced by the matriarchal religion that dominates the world, the presence of mages, dragons, darkspawn, Kossith, etc.  If "we didn't have those things in the medieval world" is your argument, then we should ditch all those other things, too.

Dragon Age is far from the Renaissance. The Renaissance, French for "rebirth", was a cultural movement based on Southern European states discovering preserved and translated classical texts that had been curated by Arabs and funded by capital that flowed into Italian trading cities from a gold surplus in Egypt. Thedas isn't "rediscovering" anything from their equivalent to classical Rome (Ancient Tevinter), if anything they're trying to distance themselves from it. There's no greater understanding of art, technology, literature or culture in Thedas, and it's squarely medieval.  

2. Trade does actually exist in Thedas, and where there's trade, there's ethnic diversity.  There's no reason why a port city, which Thedas does have, shouldn't be more diverse.

A port city doesn't just magically give you other ethnicities with differing phenotypes. Hamburg was a port city on the Baltic sea, and the Baltic is surrounded by some of the nations with the fairest skin on Earth: Germans, Finns, Prussians, Slavs, etc. You're not going to suddenly see an African man in the Hansa just because it's a port city.

3. Sea travel is not the only means by which diversity could spread. 

Sure, but we know of no overland travel routes that go to uncharted regions west of the Tirashan mountains. Thedas doesn't have a silk-road equivalent.

4.  We know for a fact that various ethnicities exist, having seen people in DA who register for players as African, Hispanic/Latino, or Asian.  Since they exist, there is NO REASON not to make them more prevalent.

I'd be wary to call any of those ethnicities "African, Hispanic/Latino or Asian" because Africa, Iberia and Asia do not exist in Thedas. There are some people with the same phenotypes as those regions' populations on Earth, but they don't correspond 1:1 with them (a lot of people assume, for instance, that Rivainis are Sub-Saharan African because they have dark skin, despite having a more Caucasian facial structure that makes them look more Indian than anything else)

5. Given that we are discussing a fantasy setting, which is drawn from its creators' knowledge of Earth, but is at NO POINT INTENDED TO BE EARTH, there is really no point whatsoever in griping that the world can't or shouldn't be ethnically diverse because then it wouldn't be realistic. 

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas. But those are ethnicities that are justified within the lore already. We shouldn't have people looking African for the sake of being African, or Asian for the sake of being Asian, and we shouldn't have ethnicities that share those real-world populations' phenotypes be in areas that have no logical reason for them to be there. Big, cosmopolitan cities and border regions? Yes. Random small out of the way towns? No.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Sounds like a good idea, KC_Prototype.

[AngryFrozenWater]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

[Silfren]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Silfren wrote...

1. Dragon Age is not the Real World Medieval Period.  It's more similar to the Renaissance, but either way, it is neither of those things.  As evidenced by the matriarchal religion that dominates the world, the presence of mages, dragons, darkspawn, Kossith, etc.  If "we didn't have those things in the medieval world" is your argument, then we should ditch all those other things, too.

Dragon Age is far from the Renaissance. The Renaissance, French for "rebirth", was a cultural movement based on Southern European states discovering preserved and translated classical texts that had been curated by Arabs and funded by capital that flowed into Italian trading cities from a gold surplus in Egypt. Thedas isn't "rediscovering" anything from their equivalent to classical Rome (Ancient Tevinter), if anything they're trying to distance themselves from it. There's no greater understanding of art, technology, literature or culture in Thedas, and it's squarely medieval.

I hardly meant that Dragon Age was lifted directly from the Renaissance, and I should have clarified Renaissance Period.  I certainly wasn't referring to a 1:1 correlation, to use your own words from further down.  In any event, my salient point is that Dragon Age is NOT either of those things.  It is NOT squarely medieval, especially if you use the term to refer directly to the precise state of the real world Medieval period. Again, no dragons, no world-spanning matriarchal religion, no elves, dwarves, or kossith, no magic, no Fade, etc. 

2. Trade does actually exist in Thedas, and where there's trade, there's ethnic diversity.  There's no reason why a port city, which Thedas does have, shouldn't be more diverse.

A port city doesn't just magically give you other ethnicities with differing phenotypes. Hamburg was a port city on the Baltic sea, and the Baltic is surrounded by some of the nations with the fairest skin on Earth: Germans, Finns, Prussians, Slavs, etc. You're not going to suddenly see an African man in the Hansa just because it's a port city.

No, it doesn't automatically mean it. But it often DOES, which is sufficient enough reason.

3. Sea travel is not the only means by which diversity could spread. 

Sure, but we know of no overland travel routes that go to uncharted regions west of the Tirashan mountains. Thedas doesn't have a silk-road equivalent.

How exactly do you know this? We haven't seen all of Thedas yet, and we don't know all there is to know about it.

4.  We know for a fact that various ethnicities exist, having seen people in DA who register for players as African, Hispanic/Latino, or Asian.  Since they exist, there is NO REASON not to make them more prevalent.

I'd be wary to call any of those ethnicities "African, Hispanic/Latino or Asian" because Africa, Iberia and Asia do not exist in Thedas. There are some people with the same phenotypes as those regions' populations on Earth, but they don't correspond 1:1 with them (a lot of people assume, for instance, that Rivainis are Sub-Saharan African because they have dark skin, despite having a more Caucasian facial structure that makes them look more Indian than anything else)

Given that I said precisely the same thing just a few posts above, well.  There's a reason why I specified "register for players as," though I see I should have made myself clearer.  I am well aware that Africa, Asia, South America, etc. do not exist in Thedas.  But the fact remains that they DO have dark-skinned characters who players respond to because they DO register in peoples' minds as Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.  And this was intentional, or else Thedas really would have been all white, all the time. 

[MisanthropePrime]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

[MisanthropePrime]

Silfren wrote...


I hardly meant that Dragon Age was lifted directly from the Renaissance, and I should have clarified Renaissance Period.  I certainly wasn't referring to a 1:1 correlation, to use your own words from further down.  In any event, my salient point is that Dragon Age is NOT either of those things.  It is NOT squarely medieval, especially if you use the term to refer directly to the precise state of the real world Medieval period. Again, no dragons, no world-spanning matriarchal religion, no elves, dwarves, or kossith, no magic, no Fade, etc. 

The point I was trying to make was that the Renaissance was brought about by an international, global (or at least multi-regional) grouping of factors and that Thedas doesn't. Thedas does, however, have a lot of the hallmarks of the high middle ages, from the clothes, social climate, technology, weaponry, etc.

No, it doesn't automatically mean it. But it often DOES, which is sufficient enough reason.

If said port city linked regions that had different ethnicities with wildly varying phenotypes, you'd have a point. There are few to no such port cities in Thedas, however.

How exactly do you know this? We haven't seen all of Thedas yet, and we don't know all there is to know about it.

The writers have explicitly said that, while land exists beyond Thedas, no one from Thedas is yet capable of exploring it and the mountains that border Thedas to the west are "impenetrable".

Given that I said precisely the same thing just a few posts above, well.  There's a reason why I specified "register for players as," though I see I should have made myself clearer.  I am well aware that Africa, Asia, South America, etc. do not exist in Thedas.  But the fact remains that they DO have dark-skinned characters who players respond to because they DO register in peoples' minds as Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.  And this was intentional, or else Thedas really would have been all white, all the time. 

Thedas isn't, and that's fine: there are the olive-skinned peoples of Tevinter and Antiva, and the Donarks-originated dark skinned people of Rivain. And that's fine! And if people from Tevinter and Antiva and Rivain have reason within the story to be in an area outside of those nations, that's fine too. But to shoehorn them in just for the sake of appearing as ethnically diverse makes no sense and does the setting a disservice.

Modifié par MisanthropePrime, 30 juin 2013 - 09:21 .

[Silfren]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

I'm fairly sure that Orlesian refers to nationality and not ethnicity...  Let's look at another Empire and try the same thing: "It only makes sense for you to appear Roman."  Or I could go it one further and point out that people who appear American can be any color of the rainbow.   For that matter, the same with someone who "appears English."

See how this works?

Modifié par Silfren, 30 juin 2013 - 09:24 .

[MisanthropePrime]

Silfren wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

I'm fairly sure that Orlesian refers to nationality and not ethnicity...  Let's look at another Empire and try the same thing: "It only makes sense for you to appear Roman."  Or I could go it one further and point out that people who appear American can be any color of the rainbow.   For that matter, the same with someone who "appears English."

See how this works?

Rome was an empire that spanned a large variety of climes that had people of a variety of phenotypes, stretching from Britain in the north to Egypt in the south. Orlais, at its greatest extent, controlled southern and central Thedas, and the population of those areas have the same phenotypes.

A better analogy for you to use, rather than the Roman Empire, would be the later Holy Roman Empire which was situated in modern day Central Europe/Germany. It may have contained different ethnicities, but thsoe ethnicities almost all looked the same when compared to the diversity of the "Classical" Roman Empire.

[AngryFrozenWater]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

The character generator is intended to give one a custom look and many use that to reflect their gender and skin color. The skin color option and some hair styles are already in it. It is just poorly done. The OP just asks for improvements in that regard. Nothing wrong with that. So don't start with rationalizations to hide your racism.

[MisanthropePrime]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

The character generator is intended to give one a custom look and many use that to reflect their gender and skin color. The skin color option and some hair styles are already in it. It is just poorly done. The OP just asks for improvements in that regard. Nothing wrong with that. So don't start with rationalizations to hide your racism.

How have I expressed any racism here? I have not said any one race, on Earth or Thedas, is preferable to any other, and, in fact, I've specifically avoided the use of the phrase "race" because of its pseudoscientific connotations. What I want is a tight, internally consistent story- how you're getting "racism" out of that, I have no idea.

[AngryFrozenWater]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins
they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

The character generator is intended to give one a custom look and many use that to reflect their gender and skin color. The skin color option and some hair styles are already in it. It is just poorly done. The OP just asks for improvements in that regard. Nothing wrong with that. So don't start with rationalizations to hide your racism.

How have I expressed any racism here? I have not said any one race, on Earth or Thedas, is preferable to any other, and, in fact, I've specifically avoided the use of the phrase "race" because of its pseudoscientific connotations. What I want is a tight, internally consistent story- how you're getting "racism" out of that, I have no idea.

Fact is that the skin color options are already there. Same goes for some hair styles. Fact is that these are poorly done. Fact is that none of your arguments address that. That leaves one conclusion.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 juin 2013 - 09:43 .

[MisanthropePrime]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins
they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

The character generator is intended to give one a custom look and many use that to reflect their gender and skin color. The skin color option and some hair styles are already in it. It is just poorly done. The OP just asks for improvements in that regard. Nothing wrong with that. So don't start with rationalizations to hide your racism.

How have I expressed any racism here? I have not said any one race, on Earth or Thedas, is preferable to any other, and, in fact, I've specifically avoided the use of the phrase "race" because of its pseudoscientific connotations. What I want is a tight, internally consistent story- how you're getting "racism" out of that, I have no idea.

Fact is that the skin color options are already there. Same goes for some hair styles. Fact is that these are poorly done. Fact is that none of your arguments address that. That leaves one conclusion.

...What? "Poorly done" is not a fact, it's an opinion, even if it's a near-unanimous one it's still an opinion. And how is it that my arguments "don't address" your opinion somehow proof of my racism?

[AngryFrozenWater]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The world should be ethnically diverse in the right areas.

A good idea is to start with the character generator then.

It depends on what, if any, built-in background there is for your character. For the human noble, alienage elf, both dwarven origins and arguably Hawke it doesn't really make much sense, since their families have been in a singular place with a well defined ethnic phenotype for generations. With DA:I and the inquisitor, it depends on what origins
they give to the player and how much of their background is spelled out in those origins. For instance, if they say your character "worked as a Seeker before becoming Inquisitor", a seeker can come from anywhere where the Andrastian Chantry is worshiped, even Antiva and parts of Rivain. But if it says "You come from a small village in the middle of nowhere in Orlais", then it really only makes sense for you to appear Orlesian.

The character generator is intended to give one a custom look and many use that to reflect their gender and skin color. The skin color option and some hair styles are already in it. It is just poorly done. The OP just asks for improvements in that regard. Nothing wrong with that. So don't start with rationalizations to hide your racism.

How have I expressed any racism here? I have not said any one race, on Earth or Thedas, is preferable to any other, and, in fact, I've specifically avoided the use of the phrase "race" because of its pseudoscientific connotations. What I want is a tight, internally consistent story- how you're getting "racism" out of that, I have no idea.

Fact is that the skin color options are already there. Same goes for some hair styles. Fact is that these are poorly done. Fact is that none of your arguments address that. That leaves one conclusion.

...What? "Poorly done" is not a fact, it's an opinion, even if it's a near-unanimous one it's still an opinion. And how is it that my arguments "don't address" your opinion somehow proof of my racism?

Try it. It is poorly done. Look at my avatar. That brownish color is the darkest available. Once in the game there isn't much left from it. Same goes for DA2. That is fact.

[MisanthropePrime]

Try it. It is poorly done. Look at my avatar. That brownish color is the darkest available. Once in the game there isn't much left from it. Same goes for DA2. That is fact.

That being the darkest possible color for DA:O, where all characters are from Ferelden and where the darkest ethnic group is Chasind makes perfect sense- though I do remember some people in DAII being noticably darker, like Hubert.

Modifié par MisanthropePrime, 30 juin 2013 - 10:32 .

[Ninja Stan]

AngryFrozenWater, MisanthropePrime, let's try not to derail the discussion, please. Take it to private if you wish to explore the topic of racism. And manage your quote pyramids to reflect the comment you're directly responding to. They're getting unwieldy. Thank you.

[Fetunche]

I didn't expect to play Caucasian in jade empire and enjoyed the game,by role playing some one from there.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ninja Stan wrote...

AngryFrozenWater, MisanthropePrime, let's try not to derail the discussion, please. Take it to private if you wish to explore the topic of racism. And manage your quote pyramids to reflect the comment you're directly responding to. They're getting unwieldy. Thank you.

The rules are changed. We cannot take this to PM without being on the FL. I pull out in that case. Thank you.