642 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

I wonder where all the "But this is the setting Bioware established" people were during the arguments that having all-bisexual people is unrealistic?

[Plaintiff]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I think diversity is good where it makes sense but making say the Couslands into Asian people or black people just to accomodate player ethnic identity makes 0 sense IMO.  I'm not especially surprised or alarmed that a setting largely inspired by medival Europe is full of white people.  Just like I wasn't surprised or alarmed that JE was full of Asian people.  

Indeed - while choice is basically always good in an RPG (if well-implemented) I tend to just take the setting as-is. It's not suspension of disbelief if you're critiquing how the written world is comprised, it should just be "this is reality, this is how it is, not how it should be".

I'm more than capable of believing that there is a fantasy world with only white people in it; lord knows there are plenty of those.

What I question is why the creator of said world thought a white-only setting was necessary to tell his story.

[Gotholhorakh]

Silfren wrote...

I wonder where all the "But this is the setting Bioware established" people were during the arguments that having all-bisexual people is unrealistic?

Probably somewhere far away, not caring, or joining in because that very "this is the setting Bioware established" suspension of disbelief was affected for them by everyone being playersexual.

[Rawgrim]

Silfren wrote...

I wonder where all the "But this is the setting Bioware established" people were during the arguments that having all-bisexual people is unrealistic?

player-sexual.

[Plaintiff]

Oh hell, here we go.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Oh hell, here we go.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Gotholhorakh]

Plaintiff wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I think diversity is good where it makes sense but making say the Couslands into Asian people or black people just to accomodate player ethnic identity makes 0 sense IMO.  I'm not especially surprised or alarmed that a setting largely inspired by medival Europe is full of white people.  Just like I wasn't surprised or alarmed that JE was full of Asian people.  

Indeed - while choice is basically always good in an RPG (if well-implemented) I tend to just take the setting as-is. It's not suspension of disbelief if you're critiquing how the written world is comprised, it should just be "this is reality, this is how it is, not how it should be".

I'm more than capable of believing that there is a fantasy world with only white people in it; lord knows there are plenty of those.

What I question is why the creator of said world thought a white-only setting was necessary to tell his story.

Necessary? Fiction is not utilitarian and it must not be subject to justification (otherwise we destroy it).

The writer includes it for whatever reason they want without explanation unless they want to explain, and consequently we get real, from the heart fiction rather than regulated fiction that meets other people's criteria (who decides on what those are).

We are each of us free to write fiction that meets our own desired brief.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 01 juillet 2013 - 10:27 .

[Silfren]

Ashelsu wrote...

Silfren, what do you think of Jade Empire then? Everybody is one (asian) race, the only person from another race is pictured as a caricature. Does it bother you?

Never played Jade Empire and know next to nothing about it.  But, and I know that this is going to go over your head, by featuring all Asian people, Jade Empire is NOT yet another example of entertainment that assumes only white people exist or matter. 

Go ahead, call me a hypocrite or an antiwhite racist or whatever.  I don't expect you to get it.

FYI: if Thedas had been created to feature black, asian, middle eastern and hispanic/latino skin types and there wasn't a white person among the lot, or only a tiny handful of token whites, I would be applauding it, and I would be playing it over and over and over and over and over again.  Gleefully.  As a white woman, no less.

Have fun wrapping your head around that one.

[Rawgrim]

Filament wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I think diversity is good where it makes sense but making say the Couslands into Asian people or black people just to accomodate player ethnic identity makes 0 sense IMO.  I'm not especially surprised or alarmed that a setting largely inspired by medival Europe is full of white people.  Just like I wasn't surprised or alarmed that JE was full of Asian people.  

You can't really take the game out of the context of the audience it was produced for. Jade Empire represents minorities for its audience just as a DA game with minorities in it would. They're not minorities in the Jade Empire itself but that's irrelevant to the issue of representation in our cultural context.

If we were talking about Made-in-China Jade Empire for a Chinese audience the request for minority representation in that game (considering who are minorities in China, Tibetan, Hui etc.) would be more comparable.

The Jade Empire setting is the same as the DA setting, actually. East of Thedas. I think Gaider confirmed that bit.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Does everything on the BSN have to turn into a racial, sexual, or political debate? Because seriously.

All you have to say is "Hey Bioware, will we get some expanded options in the create mode, because we couldn't properly create dark-skinned characters in DAO?". It's already been answered ages ago, so all this needless drama and whining is useless.

[Silfren]

Plaintiff wrote...

Oh hell, here we go.

LOL.  I'm sorry.  It seemed pertinent at the time, what with all the crap about realism here seeming to be the direct opposite of the "unrealistic" argumentation there.

[Ashelsu]

Provoking and insulting people does not prove you point.

[BouncyFrag]

Filament wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Jade Empire setting is the same as the DA setting, actually. East of Thedas. I think Gaider confirmed that bit.

I'm sure he did not, nice try though. 

Jade Empire DA3 DLC???
*makes oh so hopeful face*

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 01 juillet 2013 - 10:34 .

[Rawgrim]

Filament wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Jade Empire setting is the same as the DA setting, actually. East of Thedas. I think Gaider confirmed that bit.

I'm sure he did not, nice try though. 

http://dragonage.wik..._beyond_Thedas?

Have a look here, then see if i am a liar or not

Nice try though.

[Plaintiff]

Gotholhorakh wrote...
Necessary? Fiction is not utilitarian and it must not be subject to justification (otherwise we destroy it).

Nonsense, the process of writing fiction is very utilitarian. Writers are expected to be reflexive in their approach to their work. Publishers, editors, reviewers and readers will question and criticise all aspects of the story, and that is their right to do so. If a line, scene, chapter or character is deemed unnecessary, it will be cut, usually to the story's benefit.

The writer includes it for whatever reason they want without explanation unless they want to, and consequently we get real, from the heart fiction rather than regulated fiction that meets other people's criteria (who decides on what those are).

That is an adorable sentiment.

Fiction is regulated, by publishers. I can promise you with absolute certainty that anything that went through conventional publishing channels underwent a strenuous editting process. You will not find "real, from the heart" fiction in any bookstore.

The only way you'll find that is by deliberately seeking out self-published works. Most of them are completely awful, of course (there are a few gems, like the Wool anthology by Hugh Howey), but they're "real" and "from the heart".

We are each of us free to write fiction that meets our own desired brief.

You have the right, certainly. You also have the right for your work to suck and be terrible, and readers have the right to question your narrative choices.

And if your "desired brief" is "worlds that have only white people", I have the right to wonder why that is. You aren't obligated to tell me, of course, but I have the right to formulate my own theories.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 juillet 2013 - 10:42 .

[Rawgrim]

It could have been another dev that said it, though. But i distincly remember one of them saying that the continent east of Thedas is the Jade Empire.

[Ollys]

Silfren wrote...

Ashelsu wrote...

Silfren, what do you think of Jade Empire then? Everybody is one (asian) race, the only person from another race is pictured as a caricature. Does it bother you?

Never played Jade Empire and know next to nothing about it.  But, and I know that this is going to go over your head, by featuring all Asian people, Jade Empire is NOT yet another example of entertainment that assumes only white people exist or matter. 

So you cares when opressed black people cant play by they ethnic group in world inspired by white european medieval with knights, mages and stuff, but not cares by opressed white people cant play by they ethnic group in world inspired by asian oriental east with kung-foo and stuff, even if they want to ropeplay someone like this?

https://encrypted-tb...M6Zsa_MII1AjfcU

[Paul E Dangerously]

Rawgrim wrote...

Filament wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Jade Empire setting is the same as the DA setting, actually. East of Thedas. I think Gaider confirmed that bit.

I'm sure he did not, nice try though. 

http://dragonage.wik..._beyond_Thedas?

Have a look here, then see if i am a liar or not

Nice try though.

That's all fan discussion. Even if, there are too many inaccuracies to make sense - Sir Roderick is clearly from a more advanced technological civilization than anywhere in Thedas. I also can't dig it up at the moment, but IIRC there's no Asia analogues in DA, because it wouldn't fit the setting.

[Rawgrim]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Filament wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Jade Empire setting is the same as the DA setting, actually. East of Thedas. I think Gaider confirmed that bit.

I'm sure he did not, nice try though. 

http://dragonage.wik..._beyond_Thedas?

Have a look here, then see if i am a liar or not

Nice try though.

That's all fan discussion. Even if, there are too many inaccuracies to make sense - Sir Roderick is clearly from a more advanced technological civilization than anywhere in Thedas. I also can't dig it up at the moment, but IIRC there's no Asia analogues in DA, because it wouldn't fit the setting.

Yes. But I remembered it because a dev said it. I don`t remember where, but it was on the board somewhere. Not long after DA2 came out. They wanted to keep the two continents completely separate, I belive.