642 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Guns wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Guns wrote...

If it fits into the story sure, but they shouldn't add bunch of Nevarran if it set in Orlais, just because of "ethnic diversity." That's idiotic.

 
Good thing nobody has asked for that then! 

Uh did you read the OP?  That's the closest thing to black people in Thedas.

 
Looks like not only did someone misunderstand the question, they also didn't bother to read/skim through the thread. 

So people are supposed to ignore the OP in favour of the comments?

[Thiefy]

Guns wrote...

I was responding to the opening post, nothing else. I should go back and quote it in my first post to make it clearer. 

 
Understandable, but you are still mistaken. I don't believe anyone, including the OP was asking for random clumps of PoC in random towns. That's not what we are asking for when we ask for more visibility.

It just strikes a lot of us as odd that you can go through several towns (or parts of town in DA2) in both games and have a hard time finding an NPC with an ethinicity other than white. There have been a couple people in this thread commenting that it was so rare they would squeal or squee when they saw one.

As far as lore goes, there have already been posts that give links to where writers did say that there were different ethnic groups in the dragon age setting. Well, dark skin and kinky hair was confirmed, not so much single eyelids or almond shaped eyes. 

So people are supposed to ignore the OP in favour of the comments?

i dont even know what you mean by that.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 03 juillet 2013 - 02:11 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

So people are supposed to ignore the OP in favour of the comments?

i dont even know what you mean by that.

It's basically what you just said and Guns was responding to the OP only, not 'skimming the last couple of pages'.

[Thiefy]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

So people are supposed to ignore the OP in favour of the comments?

i dont even know what you mean by that.

It's basically what you just said and Guns was responding to the OP only, not 'skimming the last couple of pages'.

 
Oh, you mean the part he clarified himself already? Eitherway he misunderstood what the OP was asking and I was addressing that. Did you care to join our discussion? 

[Guns]

Hmm I cannot comment on Dragon Age 2, but in Origins it made sense not seeing a lot outside of Denerim since for the most part Ferelden is surrounded by countries with similar ethnicity. Not to mention they are weary of outsiders since the civil war, Orlesian or otherwise.

I see nothing wrong with having foreigner npcs as long as it makes sense (like visiting a major port city like Denerim). It's a great way to expand on the Dragon Age universe's culture without necessarily having to visit a certain country. However I do not want a Dalish or Qunari shopkeeper in a remote town in Orlais just to have someone not white. There are plenty of other ways of giving a character diversity and still retaining the story's integrity.

Modifié par Guns, 03 juillet 2013 - 02:41 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

So people are supposed to ignore the OP in favour of the comments?

i dont even know what you mean by that.

It's basically what you just said and Guns was responding to the OP only, not 'skimming the last couple of pages'.

 
Oh, you mean the part he clarified himself already? Eitherway he misunderstood what the OP was asking and I was addressing that. Did you care to join our discussion? 

No. I find the whole topic irrelevant as it cannot be held to our standards and you can make whatever kind of person you want in the Character Creation and we have only explored certain parts of Thedas which make this request moot.

[Thiefy]

Guns wrote...

Hmm I cannot comment on Dragon Age 2, but in Origins it made sense not seeing a lot outside of Denerim since for the most part Ferelden is surrounded by countries with similar ethnicity. Not to mention they are weary of outsiders since the civil war, Orlesian or otherwise.

I see nothing wrong with having foreigner npcs as long as it makes sense (like visiting a major port city like Denerim). It's a great way to expand on the Dragon Age universe's culture without necessarily having to visit a certain country. However I do not want a Dalish or Qunari shopkeeper in a remote town in Orlais just to have someone not white. There are plenty of other ways of giving a character diversity and still retaining a story's integrity.

Just want to nit pick a couple things before addressing the main point:

A "dalish" in any human city would just be a city elf. I don't believe there's a difference between elves in that respect. The ones who live with humans just refer to themselves as elves and those that live in the forest amoungst themselves call themselves "Dalish". 

Qunari is a religion, not a race per say, so anyone can be "Qunari". Elves, people, giants, etc. The culture itself also doesn't really lend to it's people "expanding" if you will, unless they are conquering a land. If you are referring to people like Sten and the Arishok, then the only possible way to see them is if 1)they were invading, in which cause you would see clumps of them 2)they are running away (the Tal va'soth or however it's spelled), in which you'd only see one or two like we do in Kirkwall after the Qunari left.

Alright now that I got that out of the way, on to the main point! I don't think it would take away from the stories integrity to have more PoC. Take for instance, if you saw say a Hispanic mechant selling poultices in Highever at the beginning of the game, would that take away from the lore or gameplay? I don't personally think so. Merchants travel. That and the Chasind are dark skinned people anyway; it's kind of bizarre that thesurround townsfolk are all pasty white. How about an Asian warrior (i don't mean the stereotype kind, I mean in game warrior with Asian ethnic features) or mercenary in Lothering? Or if that's a bit of stretch of the imagination, an Asian mage, since mages are traded from one circle to another. Or Chantry worker. I don't think any of those would be breaking lore but apparently inclusion of any of these breaks immersion for the people that disagree.

No. I find the whole topic irrelevant as it cannot be held to our standards and you can make whatever kind of person you want in the Character Creation and we have only explored certain parts of Thedas which make this request moot.

so basically your post was ment to just try to pick an arguement with me with no intent to seriously join or continue the discussion. very nice. 

[Guns]

I understand what Dalish and Qunari are, my point is they would be extremely out of place. I suppose better examples would have been Nevarran or Antivan. 

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Alright now that I got that out of the way, on to the main point! I don't think it would take away from the stories integrity to have more PoC. Take for instance, if you saw say a Hispanic mechant selling poultices in Highever at the beginning of the game, would that take away from the lore or gameplay? I don't personally think so. Merchants travel. 
 

Gameplay? No. Lore? Yes. What would a Antivan (I assume that's what you mean by hispanic?) be doing in Highever? Most of Antiva's trade takes place in Antiva. When they do happen to venture out, at best they would be in Denerim (like Caesar and Master Ignacio)  which deals with international trading who then trades to other bigger cities, such as Highever and Amaranthine. Not to mention they are infamous for their assassins so I could see trouble being admitted to town. They would certainly never be allowed access to the castle. 

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
How about an Asian warrior (i don't mean the stereotype kind, I mean in game warrior with Asian ethnic features) or mercenary in Lothering? Or if that's a bit of stretch of the imagination, an Asian mage, since mages are traded from one circle to another. Or Chantry worker. I don't think any of those would be breaking lore but apparently inclusion of any of these breaks immersion for the people that disagree.
 

Well ignoring the fact that there are no races in Thedas with Asian ethnic features, what would they be doing in Ferelden? People thought it was weird enough Leliana was at the Lothering chantry and she is from a bordering country. The fact of the matter is Thedas isn't this all accepting, everybody hold hands and dance around kind of place. Just because someone tolerates trading with you because they get a mutually beneficial exchange doesn't mean they'll just let you prance around their country. 
They've already retconned how existing races looked and got a lot of flak for that. It definitely would be lore breaking and immersion breaking as well. 

If we're playing in a country, in most towns, citizens should be of the same ethnicity unless that country is a melting pot. Are the free marches a melting pot? I don't remember, but if they are then there should've been a lot more diversity in Dragon Age 2, but I haven't played enough of it to know if there is or isn't. According to you there wasn't correct? In that case, I agree there should've been more than your standard Ferelden, after the beginning of the game where you escape from there. 

Modifié par Guns, 03 juillet 2013 - 03:13 .

[berelinde]

The Free Marches were a melting pot with a heavy Orlesian bent, but that doesn't mean we'd see a lot of non-Caucasian types. You have to remember that the limitations of the engine restricted a lot of what we saw. Darker skintones were rendered poorly, looking granular and oddly pixelated. I'm holding out hope that the people of the Anderfels have a Mongolian phenotype and possess more Asian features and coloring.

[Thiefy]

Guns wrote...

Gameplay? No. Lore? Yes. What would a Antivan (I assume that's what you mean by hispanic?) be doing in Highever? Most of Antiva's trade takes place in Antiva. When they do happen to venture out, at best they would be in Denerim (like Caesar and Master Ignacio)  which deals with international trading who then trades to other bigger cities, such as Highever and Amaranthine. Not to mention they are infamous for their assassins so I could see trouble being admitted to town. They would certainly never be allowed access to the castle. 

 
Yet there was a Chasind in Orlias and no one batted an eyelash at that? I don't see the difference and I still don't think it breaks lore. People travel. Sometimes to far places. Duncan managed to make it out that far and he is of mixed ethnicity so I don't see why others couldn't as well.

I can subscribe to the idea that any travelers may have left because southern Fereldan was rumored to be the hotspot for the next blight, so it's natural that those still remain would be the people who live there (who all just so happen to be white) but to have it keep happening like that in the future would be questionable imo.


By hispanic I just mean an NPC that has latino features. Could be a human or elf; mage or commoner. Doesn't matter.

Well ignoring the fact that there are no races in Thedas with Asian ethnic features, what would they be doing in Ferelden? People thought it was weird enough Leliana was at the Lothering chantry and she is from a bordering country. The fact of the matter is Thedas isn't this all accepting, everybody hold hands and dance around kind of place. Just because someone tolerates trading with you because they get a mutually beneficial exchange doesn't mean they'll just let you prance around their country. 
They've already retconned how existing races looked and got a lot of flak for that. It definitely would be lore breaking and immersion breaking as well. 

If we're playing in a country, in most towns, citizens should be of the same ethnicity unless that country is a melting pot. Are the free marches a melting pot? I don't remember, but if they are then there should've been a lot more diversity in Dragon Age 2, but I haven't played enough of it to know if there is or isn't. According to you there wasn't correct? In that case, I agree there should've been more than your standard Ferelden, after the beginning of the game where you escape from there. 

 
Well some of us are challenging *why* there aren't any Asian people in Thedas. If they had been introduced from the beginning, along with other PoC sprinkling throughout the game, I'm assuming it really wouldn't have been a problem. As that's not the case, people are now saying "It's never been that way before, why change it now?" Because there are quite a few of us that think it's important. Simple as that. It's a role playing game and we'd like to role play as a black hero. or latina. or asian. or homosexual. and we'd like to feel "we aren't the only one in the world like this." I don't think that's a hard concept to grasp.

I don't think anyone was asking that a large group of anything just suddenly manifest in the games either. I can only speak for myself, but I think the general idea is just seeing maybe one or two PoC say in a tavern. Or as chantry brothers/sisters at one of the churches, or a traveling warrior/mercenary. Or a circle mage, or merchant. Do they need to be in every town? Certainly not. However, when you can through a game as lengthy as DA:O and count (or at least recognize, there was debate about this) the PoC NPCs on one hand and have fingers to spare, I do think it merits some attention.

You know what, maybe Bioware won't even think something like this is important and sweep it under the rug like a lot of posters have. For me though, I think that would have the company taking several steps backwards (in many different regards, not purely social issues). That would make me really, really sad.

As far as DA2 is, tbh it's been a while since I played and outside of Isabela, I don't remember any PoC. There were a lot of tan people but that all had white features so no one really stood out. Of course if they were meant to be PoC and I just didn't recognize them, I think there is where the request for a more optimized character builder came from. 

[Guns]

Hmmm I think I understand your point now, but I'm still against it for lore and immersion purposes. Thedas is based off the real world, but ultimately it is not the real one and doesn't necessarily have to have every ethnicity the real one has.

I guess it's Bioware's move.

Modifié par Guns, 03 juillet 2013 - 04:04 .

[AlanC9]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I don't think anyone was asking that a large group of anything just suddenly manifest in the games either. I can only speak for myself, but I think the general idea is just seeing maybe one or two PoC say in a tavern. Or as chantry brothers/sisters at one of the churches, or a traveling warrior/mercenary. Or a circle mage, or merchant. Do they need to be in every town? Certainly not. However, when you can through a game as lengthy as DA:O and count (or at least recognize, there was debate about this) the PoC NPCs on one hand and have fingers to spare, I do think it merits some attention.

What sort of percentages are you talking about?

[Thiefy]

AlanC9 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I don't think anyone was asking that a large group of anything just suddenly manifest in the games either. I can only speak for myself, but I think the general idea is just seeing maybe one or two PoC say in a tavern. Or as chantry brothers/sisters at one of the churches, or a traveling warrior/mercenary. Or a circle mage, or merchant. Do they need to be in every town? Certainly not. However, when you can through a game as lengthy as DA:O and count (or at least recognize, there was debate about this) the PoC NPCs on one hand and have fingers to spare, I do think it merits some attention.

What sort of percentages are you talking about?

I'm not sure I understand your question, so rather than just explaining what i think you might be askig, can you elaborate?

[Star fury]

AlanC9 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I don't think anyone was asking that a large group of anything just suddenly manifest in the games either. I can only speak for myself, but I think the general idea is just seeing maybe one or two PoC say in a tavern. Or as chantry brothers/sisters at one of the churches, or a traveling warrior/mercenary. Or a circle mage, or merchant. Do they need to be in every town? Certainly not. However, when you can through a game as lengthy as DA:O and count (or at least recognize, there was debate about this) the PoC NPCs on one hand and have fingers to spare, I do think it merits some attention.

What sort of percentages are you talking about?

She wants a racial quota like in Hollywood movies, when you always see black/asian/latino actors/actresses. It's a really dumb idea. Like a black knight in Medieval England on previous pages.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Star fury wrote...

She wants a racial quota like in Hollywood movies, when you always see black/asian/latino actors/actresses. It's a really dumb idea. Like a black knight in Medieval England on previous pages.

There aren't any "quotas" in Hollywood (or anywhere for that matter). Like, are you serious, my guy? Roughly eighty-four percent of all films feature white people, and sixty-seven percent centre around white men. Even roles written for explicitly non-white actors (yes, even those based on actual people of colour) are far more likely to go to their white counterparts.

And black people were relatively common in mediaeval England.

TV and filmlands out here looking like the Miracle Whip Battalion crossing the Frozen Wastelands and sh*t.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 03 juillet 2013 - 12:46 .

[Thiefy]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Star fury wrote...

She wants a racial quota like in Hollywood movies, when you always see black/asian/latino actors/actresses. It's a really dumb idea. Like a black knight in Medieval England on previous pages.

There aren't any "quotas" in Hollywood (or anywhere for that matter). Like, are you serious, my guy? Roughly eighty-four percent of all films feature white people, and sixty-seven percent centre around white men. Even roles written for explicitly non-white actors (yes, even those based on actual people of colour) are far more likely to go to their white counterparts.

And black people were relatively common in mediaeval England.

TV and filmlands out here looking like the Miracle Whip Battalion crossing the Frozen Wastelands and sh*t.

Ignore that person. His post isn't trying to add anything to the conversation. He's a troll with obviously nothing better to do with the time in his life than rabble rouse on the internet.

[legbamel]

I don't really understand the "because lore" objection. Devs have already said that the rivaini are people of color. If you insist that Thedas is analogous to Europe then it should include tones across the spectrum, as you would find from Norway to Southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. I see no reason not to believe that the DA world contains a variety of skin colors.

Given that those features and shades will already be in the game, why would you give a flying eff at a rolling donut what someone else's PC looks like in a single-player RPG? I can take a proffered background and expand it to head canon just about any appearance. What the heck does my role playing have to do with your immersion?

[Ryzaki]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Star fury wrote...

She wants a racial quota like in Hollywood movies, when you always see black/asian/latino actors/actresses. It's a really dumb idea. Like a black knight in Medieval England on previous pages.

There aren't any "quotas" in Hollywood (or anywhere for that matter). Like, are you serious, my guy? Roughly eighty-four percent of all films feature white people, and sixty-seven percent centre around white men. Even roles written for explicitly non-white actors (yes, even those based on actual people of colour) are far more likely to go to their white counterparts.

And black people were relatively common in mediaeval England.

TV and filmlands out here looking like the Miracle Whip Battalion crossing the Frozen Wastelands and sh*t.

You just had to remind me of avatar and now my eye is twitching. God I hate hollywood.

[Tarek]

and im from the middle east so I like to shot stuff and I ride on camels and live in a tent
ty Hollywood
/sarcasm

[Ollys]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Star fury wrote...

She wants a racial quota like in Hollywood movies, when you always see black/asian/latino actors/actresses. It's a really dumb idea. Like a black knight in Medieval England on previous pages.

There aren't any "quotas" in Hollywood (or anywhere for that matter). Like, are you serious, my guy? Roughly eighty-four percent of all films feature white people, and sixty-seven percent centre around white men. Even roles written for explicitly non-white actors (yes, even those based on actual people of colour) are far more likely to go to their white counterparts.

And black people were relatively common in mediaeval England.

TV and filmlands out here looking like the Miracle Whip Battalion crossing the Frozen Wastelands and sh*t.

Tokin black guys work like quotas. Because black people dont want to watch movie that dont have black characters. So money-wise creaters better to rewrite original story and add minority it.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Ryzaki wrote...

You just had to remind me of avatar and now my eye is twitching. God I hate hollywood.

I think the worst transgression has to be 21 (at least that's the first thing to come to mind), being that the film was based on actual, specific (primarily Asian American) people. Tell me why the film looks like I took a wrong turn at Basic and ended up in Coachella hell.

[AlanC9]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What sort of percentages are you talking about?

I'm not sure I understand your question, so rather than just explaining what i think you might be askig, can you elaborate?

Sure. Take a typical town zone. Say. Denerim Market. There are, what, 30 NPCs there total? How many PoCs should there be among them?

[What a Succulent Ass]

Ollys wrote...

Tokin black guys work like quotas. Because black people dont want to watch movie that dont have black characters. So money-wise creaters better to rewrite original story and add minority it.

...Do we live in the same reality?

[LobselVith8]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You just had to remind me of avatar and now my eye is twitching. God I hate hollywood.

I think the worst transgression has to be 21 (at least that's the first thing to come to mind), being that the film was based on actual, specific (primarily Asian American) people. Tell me why the film looks like I took a wrong turn at Basic and ended up in Coachella hell.

That was ridiculous. There's a reason groups have risen to criticize the racebending.

[Ollys]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Ollys wrote...

Tokin black guys work like quotas. Because black people dont want to watch movie that dont have black characters. So money-wise creaters better to rewrite original story and add minority it.

...Do we live in the same reality?

 
Check Games of Throne like modern and popular example with Salador Saan that suddenly change his ethnic in series. Also you can check alot token black examples here: 
http://en.wikipedia....r-blind_casting
http://tvtropes.org/...n/TokenMinority