423 réponses à ce sujet

[What a Succulent Ass]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's in her depiction as the series wears on. I'm not as ardent a believer in it as a few others, but look at how she's depicted in ME2, then onto LotSB, then onto ME3. It's not something that's wholly in the game, but it's something we get from... reading between the lines, so to speak. Not the best analogy, but we're seeing changes in her depiction.

In what way is her behaviour inconsistent in LotSB? The ideal of "perfection" is something that was deconstructed from her introduction. Like, forreal, if I were so desperate for help with a life decision that I needed to turn to a Magic 8 ball, I'd just ask Miranda instead and do the opposite of whatever she tells me, because she gives some sh*tty-ass advice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entire point of her character is to challenge the very concept of übermensch, genetic or otherwise (another one of the reasons ME3 cocked up), and examine the sort of damage a person can do to themselves when their entire identity and sense of self-worth centre so powerfully around perpetual excellence and unremitting success, that a single failure or perceived flaw can dash them to pieces. So I don't see how she was handled any worse in the subsequent instalments than she was in ME2. You can argue than her quickness to develop loyalty to Shepard was unconvincing (it is), and I still got whiplash welts from her Normandy personality switch, g. But inconsistent? Seems about right to me minus the bogus-ass plot excuse they give to prevent her from joining the party.

Miranda's "perfection" was never supposed to be taken as narrative fact, and her barrenness is presented neutrally. And well hell, it's believable with her Frankenfather f*cking with her genes like Chef Boyardee. Equating fertility with worth just sounds like some gross-ass projection to me. The fact she can't pop one out doesn't diminish her person in any way, and it isn't implied that it does.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

Umm ok. I guess your quite...devoted to your work. I work in banking, I like my work, but it's not my life. Never will be. Family, loved ones always come first.

My dad was very, very devoted to his work. He was a successful investment manager, made a fortune and achieved a lot. Yet he never had time to see his family, never had any spare time. That ultimately led to his family breaking apart. All the wealth, all the fame in the world can't buy love. I don't like to say it, but he regrets the way he went.

That's the reason why I think, that work shouldn't be your one and only commitment in life.

I'm an Intelligence officer in the Indiana Army National Guard, and a Post-Grad student at the Northern Illinois University for International Affairs and Diplomacy in Political Science. Prior to that, I was an enlisted Soldier for 4 years as an Analyst and Human Intelligence Collector. When I get out of the Guard, I want to work in the CIA or some other career in the U.S. Intelligence Community. My job comes first, and it always will. I'm a very ambitious and independent person, and I don't want to be a family man. That scares me to be honest. I want someone to share my life with, but I don't want the anchor and baggage of a family. A family would just hold me back. My career allows me to pursue my dreams and goals.

I think you're being a bit anthropocentric in your view regarding my situation. You're giving me your context that doesn't apply to me. Both of my parents were (and still are) very career oriented. Without going into a big schpeel, my nature is completely different from yours. What is valid for you is invalid for me. What you find desirable, I might find undesirable.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 03 juillet 2013 - 04:13 .

[o Ventus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I have no problem with her infertility (though I believe that it is reversable for her, if and when she chooses to do something about it.) It's why they decided to make her infertile that bothers me. I (and other Miranda fans, so it's not just me) interpret that it was some measure of bringing her down to our level, to make people feel bad for her because she can't have the normal life that she supposedly desires above all else.

I don't see where the dossier asserts that she desires a normal life above all else, nor did I get this feeling in ME3. Indeed I believe her Citadel scene paints a portrait of someone aware of her shortcomings while being comfortable with who she is.

Watch her romanced death scene.

[o Ventus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That's what was good with Citadel. She acknowledges that a normal life isn't for her, and she's fine with it. She was never meant to be normal anyway. She's greater than that.

That isn't at all what I took from Citadel. It came off more as "a taste of normalcy would be nice, but I'm comfortable where I am now" in regards to how Miranda feels. Watch the casino date again.

[Steelcan]

Random Jerkface wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Eh, many of us Miranda fans weren't too fond of her portrayal in her dossier. I particularly didn't like the fact that they arbitrarily made her barren to take away from her perfection, to make it seem as if her genetic engineering was a bad thing and that she is somehow less of a person because of it.

Where in the game is that implied at all?

It is found by people looking for it

[MassivelyEffective0730]

o Ventus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That's what was good with Citadel. She acknowledges that a normal life isn't for her, and she's fine with it. She was never meant to be normal anyway. She's greater than that.

That isn't at all what I took from Citadel. It came off more as "a taste of normalcy would be nice, but I'm comfortable where I am now" in regards to how Miranda feels. Watch the casino date again.

And I got the same reaction that I posted. I'm not denying what you're saying, but we're saying two separate things. They're not mutually exclusive. 

[Ravensword]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

ThinkSharp wrote...

I love being compared to soda. Makes me feel, you know, valued as a person. I mean, really, who doesn't want to be considered an object whose personal worth is consumed by others until used up and discarded? 

I actually liked Miranda more after the dossier. It was humorously in-character and added a much needed dimension to her character. Namely humanity.

As far as dossier moments, my favorite was Jack's poetry rejection. Laughed so hard.

Eh, many of us Miranda fans weren't too fond of her portrayal in her dossier. I particularly didn't like the fact that they arbitrarily made her barren to take away from her perfection, to make it seem as if her genetic engineering was a bad thing and that she is somehow less of a person because of it. To a few other Miranda fans, it honestly seemed like a pity-pandering attempt to make people feel sorry for her because she can't be normal (in a game where normal is considered the best thing), while simultaneously trying to create the belief that you weren't supposed to romance her if you did.

A lot of us actually think her dossier puts her out of character in several spots. I don't think it did much besides detract from her character, but fortunately we got some things cleared up with her writer.

The only thing I really liked about it was the conversation with Oriana.

I don't really care about her infertility nor do I see people who are unable to reproduce as somehow inferior.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Let's just say that it seems like a lot of people don't mind the Miranda dossier except for a lot of the Miranda fans. I like some parts, and despise others (particularly how she's characterized by the SB, though I see that as the SB's own perspective on her).

[Straw Nihilist]

Wait, so you're telling me you guys actually read all that? Huh...

[TheMyron]

Billie Bones wrote...

Wait, so you're telling me you guys actually read all that? Huh...

That's part of what made Mass Effect so much fun, there was/is quite a bit to read. And quite often Shepard "Experience" points as it is knowledge.

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...


I don't really care about her infertility nor do I see people who are unable to reproduce as somehow inferior.

^ Word. I pretty much glossed over it. I don't really deem it all that important to her character.

It's really unimportant. It's the goddamn future; reproductive technology should be so advanced that infertility is not a big deal and is easily addressed. If not, then it's simply a brainfart from whoever was responsible for writing the LotSB.

[Inquisitor Recon]

One of the Shadow Broker's facts that disturbed me out a bit was how Tali is pretty much stalking and obsessed with Shepard, in a really creepy sort of way. Sort of mirrors part of the community's obsession with her.

[Ravensword]

StreetMagic wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...


I don't really care about her infertility nor do I see people who are unable to reproduce as somehow inferior.

^ Word. I pretty much glossed over it. I don't really deem it all that important to her character.

It's really unimportant. It's the goddamn future; reproductive technology should be so advanced that infertility is not a big deal and is easily addressed. If not, then it's simply a brainfart from whoever was responsible for writing the LotSB.

I don't know. Nobody every cured patterned baldness either (similar to Star Trek). The future is not so bright for some people.

Infertility is an infinitely more important issue than pattern baldness.

[Nightwriter]

<--- Pouted about Miranda's ME3 content like only a Miranda fan can.

<--- Was fine with her dossier.

[AresKeith]

Nightwriter wrote...

<--- Pouted about Miranda's ME3 content like only a Miranda fan can.

<--- Was fine with her dossier.

Hipster Lisa has spoken 

[Dextro Milk]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

One of the Shadow Broker's facts that disturbed me out a bit was how Tali is pretty much stalking and obsessed with Shepard, in a really creepy sort of way. Sort of mirrors part of the community's obsession with her.

Wait, what are you talking about? 

[Ravensword]

Nerve stimulator program.

[Dextro Milk]

Ravensword wrote...

Nerve stimulator program.

Tbh, if I was in Tali's shoes, I would do the same thing. Sheploo is hot.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...


I don't really care about her infertility nor do I see people who are unable to reproduce as somehow inferior.

^ Word. I pretty much glossed over it. I don't really deem it all that important to her character.

It's really unimportant. It's the goddamn future; reproductive technology should be so advanced that infertility is not a big deal and is easily addressed. If not, then it's simply a brainfart from whoever was responsible for writing the LotSB.

I don't know. Nobody every cured patterned baldness either (similar to Star Trek). The future is not so bright for some people.

See, I'm not upset with Miranda being barren, so much as the reasons why I think her writer decided to make her barren.

That said, it's definitely curable for Miranda. I imagine she hasn't cured herself simply because she hasn't chosen too. She's a smart woman, probably one of the smartest humans in the galaxy. Very driven and motivated and strong. She cured death. What's to stop her from reversing fertility as well.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ravensword wrote...
Nerve stimulator program.

This. Human edition. Plus some sort of book about reading humans and  human anatomy and all sorts of creepy stuff. All that was needed was a forum positng about what human sweat tastes like.