56 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Carodej wrote...

They both have their good and bad points. Morally, Bhelen is definitely scum, but metagaming knowledge lets you know he has the best chances to make things better for the dwarves in general- which Wardens might like in a long term sense since dwarves kill lots of dwarkspawn.

You don't have to metagame to know that Bhelen has a more modern approach to dwarven politics. The criers tell so, the merchants tell so, some casual nobles in the streets tell so. And as far as morality goes, there are few dwarven nobles in Orzammar that aren't scum

True. Aside from that, my PC got a very scary glimpse into dwarven politics the second she stepped into the Commons. That was her first clue that she can't measure the dwarven society against the human/elven one. The second was when stepping into the assembly and hearing threats thrown about, and the steward telling everyone that he 'already doubled the guard to keep violence from erupting'.

What seems acceptable, even expected, to dwarfs, is not acceptable to humans/elves and vice versa. How should she know? She'a a mage/HN without any knowledge of how the dwarfs run their society. This was a 'think outside the box' moment for both my PCs.

[ejoslin]

robertthebard wrote...

Actually, my Dwarf Noble will have no problem supporting Bhelen for the throne. He played the game masterfully, to the point of setting me up to kill my older brother. He played it like a pro, and that's what Orzammar needs. Not to mention it keeps my bloodline on the throne. I have been through there multiple times, and have never found any proof that Bhelen did in fact poison his father, however. It's just as likely that Harrowmount did, and Harrowmount was the one with him when he died. That conveniently placed note could indeed be another forgery.

My dwarf noble also supported her brother.  Her reason being, when she was sealed in the dark roads, it was because her brother was able to sway the assembly, while Harrowmont could not.  She wanted to make sure that there would be someone to send troops, not someone to suggest it to the assembly.  The most important thing at that point was stopping the blight -- when going back to Orzammar, she was only a gray warden.

As far as my PC knew, her father had died of heartbreak.  She hated Bhelen, but she had to put personal feelings aside and do what was best for her cause.

[Carodej]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Carodej wrote...

They both have their good and bad points. Morally, Bhelen is definitely scum, but metagaming knowledge lets you know he has the best chances to make things better for the dwarves in general- which Wardens might like in a long term sense since dwarves kill lots of dwarkspawn.

You don't have to metagame to know that Bhelen has a more modern approach to dwarven politics. The criers tell so, the merchants tell so, some casual nobles in the streets tell so. And as far as morality goes, there are few dwarven nobles in Orzammar that aren't scum

You're absolutely right.  Its just in my opinion "modern approach" and "best chances to make things better for the dwarves" are not one and the same thing.  Sure I pesonally think Bhelen's approach to the casteless is a much better idea in the long run - based on what I know as a person.  Depending on their origins, my PCs may or may not realize this as well.  But it's really only the ending dialogues that let you KNOW how much better Bhelen typically does when you crown him, and that's what I was referring to when I was talking about metagaming knowledge.

[Lotion Soronarr]

If I play a Dwarven Noble I always side with Harrowmont. Why? Cause he makes me his heir!



And since I'm better than either Harrowmont or Bhelen - and choosing Harrowmont leads me to become king eventually - it's a win-win situation.

[Eudaemonium]

On my first run through the game (HN) I supported Harrowmont, as I considered him the more honourable of the two, and more in line with how my character thought nobility should be. That said, I think he was somewhat naive. WhenI play a DN I will probably support Harrowmont. I recently started up a DC and was pleasantly surprised to find the 'Rica' who appeared in Bhelen's letter was none other than my sister! DC will go Bhelen regardless of meta knowledge.

My City Elf (favourite origin) characters always tend to support Bhelen, largely due to his attitude towards the casteless, who she sympathises with because of her own background. Though she tends to play them both until the end. I think one pivotal scene was while running through the Diamond Quarter and both the criers referred to Bhelen's 'impending marriage to a casteless woman', using it to justify or slight him. Understandably, she freaked at Alistair when he split up with her after becoming king. She destroyed the anvil for similar reasons, regardless of utility, she just couldn't justify the creation of slaves - greater good or no.

Btw, I feel obliged to mention that you can complete both the Proving (for Harrowmont) *and* rescue Lord Dace for Bhelen as long as you *don't* also talk to Lord Helmi in Tapster's. Its tempting to do his first, as its there and easy, but saving Lord Dace allows you to pickpocket 2 Thorn of the Dead Gods daggers and (apparently) gets you a discount with some surface merchants (does anyone know if this does, and if so with whom?). Of course, that requires some meta-gaming.

[mousestalker]

One good rule of thumb is never believe a dwarf when he mentions discount.



The only dwarven merchant who ever gives you a discount is Figor, and that's for rescuing him from the Carta.

[Sabriana]

mousestalker wrote...

One good rule of thumb is never believe a dwarf when he mentions discount. Not even the surface dwarfs.

The only dwarven merchant who ever gives you a discount is Figor, and that's for rescuing him from the Carta.

Fix'd