138 réponses à ce sujet

[Dendio1]

I was reading an article about characters in movies choosing fate vs hope when I realised it also applied to mass effect 3.

Generally the viewer "hopes" that the hero makes it out alive, while the hero faces a decision between accepting death with the promise of his goal vs taking a risk that gives him a better chance to live, but doesn't guarentee sucess.

For example in the dark knight rises, it can be argued that batman flies the batwing with the bomb rather than rely on auto pilot. He accepts his fate of both saving gotham and death. The viewers rely on hope that he would some how use the auto pilot...granting him his life and if all goes right...saving gotham.

In deep impact the astronauts choose fate over hope as well. They rammed their shuttle full of nukes into a comet that threatened all life on earth. They could have just fired a few at a time..hoping that it would be enough...but they didn't.

In Mass effect the star kid tells shepard he will die if he choses synthesis or control, but he also says that these are legit solutions to the organic vs synthetic conflict. Destroy is the only original option that allows shepard to trust hope over fate. The red ending is uncertain and leaves the problem only temporaraly solved...but shepard has a chance to survive.

So its shepards choice on whether to give into fate and die to save the universe or leave it to chance and hope for the best. Most movie heroes will do what they have to do to ensure their goal is reached...even if it means death, but the interactive nature of mass effect 3 allows us to do otherwise

Heres the article for any interested

http://www.filmendin...g-analyzed.html

Modifié par Dendio1, 02 juillet 2013 - 04:57 .

[Tron Mega]

I wonder what synthesis thinks of the word fate.

[frostajulie]

each of the endings are devoid of hope except refuse and we get to see how badly trusting to hope plays out. The tragedy is I would rather trust to hope than accept fate even when I already know the outcome.

That's why the ending sucks. It is the death of hope. The death of dreams.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

All the endings are devoid of hope. They suck the life out of you. I do not believe in the no win scenario.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

It doesn't matter what Shepard chooses. The whole scenario itself is the end of the game universe. The only hope is moving on and playing another game.

Tried it. 

Doesn't work.

Won't lie, ME3 completely screwed me when it comes to games now.

[David7204]

Why do people spew vitriol at me when I speak to defend these concepts of hope and heroism when it's incredibly clear from these comments that they're very important to players?

[Cheviot]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

All the endings are devoid of hope. They suck the life out of you. I do not believe in the no win scenario.

I find the new hope for the galaxy after Shepard's sacrifice in most of the endings makes them full of hope.  Even Refuse is ultimately hopeful.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David, it's perhaps your presentation of hope and heroism that turns off people. It's not that it's not important. Heroism is just not the sole focus. Hope also needs to be there. Again, I think it's your presentation. Also picking a nice friendly avatar might help as well. Just a suggestion.

[Iakus]

 "You have hope.  More than you kn..."

:lol:

I'm sorry, sorry.  I can't say that with a straight face.

THere is no hope.  THere is no goodness in the galaxy.  There's only the evil you're willing to permit.

[Cheviot]

iakus wrote...
THere is no hope.  THere is no goodness in the galaxy.  There's only the evil you're willing to permit.

I think all those who were facing a terrible death from the Reapers before Shepard saved their lives would disagree.

[David7204]

Heroism is just how hope is earned. Paradise exists because it's built. Not because it's given.

Also, I don't know how to change my avatar.

[Nole]

You must be a fan of warhammer 40k.

[David7204]

Me?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Upper left. There's a tab for Profile. Change Profile Photo will appear. Click on it.

[David7204]

None of these will do at all. I want one of EDI.

[Erez Kristal]

David7204 wrote...

Why do people spew vitriol at me when I speak to defend these concepts of hope and heroism when it's incredibly clear from these comments that they're very important to players?

its not because your ideas.
Its because the way you treat many people on this forum.

People have hard time forgetting being treated bad. when they get the chance to get back at the person who treated them that way, they will.

Its not your ideas which make them feel this way. its the way your express your ideas. the mindset being those ideas of yours. if you mindset will be positive. so will be the feedback for your ideas.

(i should know :happy: )

[Reorte]

There's no such thing as fate. Sometimes people might wind up in a situation where the best or only chance of success leaves little or no chance of getting out of it themselves, but that usually means that the plans have gone screwy somewhere, and such a situation gets harder to convincingly wind up in the larger-scale the situation becomes.

[Reorte]

StreetMagic wrote...

Refuse isn't so bad the more I think about it. Kind of a Joan of Arc/William Wallace brand of heroism. The kind of principled stand one makes when you know you're going to lose, your people are going to lose, and the future isn't going to be much better.. but your principles matter anyhow.

Only applies when there's sod all else you can do about it. Your principles are lousy if they get everyone else killed along with you unless the only actions left available to you are even worse than that (cough synthesis cough). The word "sacrifice" gets dragged up too often and inappropriately here but I don't see why being prepared to sacrifice your principles to save everyone (you've gone to hell but they don't) is bad but sacrificing your life to do so, or worse still to not change anything anyway, isn't.

Modifié par Reorte, 02 juillet 2013 - 07:54 .

[JonathonPR]

I feel no sense of hope from any of the endings. I feel no sense of fate from any of the endings. I feel only the contrivance of authors. It successfully matches the feelings I felt at the start of ME3.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

There should have been an EDI avatar.

[David7204]

Well there ain't.

[crimzontearz]

Bioware does not care. They never will. As far as they are concerned you are a peon for not understanding and appreciating their art. hope has nothing to do with it, neither does fate, it is all about the will of the beret wearing artist

Modifié par crimzontearz, 02 juillet 2013 - 08:56 .

[jstme]

I disagree. All original ending choices are forced on a hero by a catalyst. Chosing to ram spaceship into asteroid is not the same as asteroid telling astronauts to go and bash their helmeted heads against it until both heads and asteroid crack.
The only freedomish choice is post-EC refusal and we all know how it ends.