138 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

A bunch of hypotheticals and speculatory assumptions don't eliminate hope from any of the endings. That's why it's called "hope" - because it isn't certain it will work out.

[LinksOcarina]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Controlling the reapers? People are going to suddenly accept their new reaper masters just because they stopped shooting at them? Your new galactic order will not end well. Yeah, you'll have them start rebuilding, but then they get to watch over everyone.... forever. You become the new Leviathans. They'll build synthetics. Then what? Maybe they'll build them to challenge the Reapers again. But the synthetics will turn on them. Will you recognize that you are part of the problem?

Hope?

Destroy is hope. Too bad they tainted it. Too bad it was attached to the sucktastic ending.

As I said, I can easily say that destroying everything can lead to a repeat of history anyway, a delay in the inevitable because one day the predecessors to the Geth will rise up and kill people, and if that happens then the unvierse dies for sure. 

Isen't that just interpretation? And in that same vein, doesn't that validate all the endings at the same time? You hope destroy does what you want it to do. You don't know it does. Other Shepard's may think differently, does that invalidate their belief? 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 04 juillet 2013 - 07:19 .

[KaiserShep]

I guess it all depends on whether or not you think inevitability for something like this is a valid concept. I reject it outright, but to each his own. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 juillet 2013 - 07:28 .

[Nole]

A lot of people like grimdark ****. The ending doesn't suck cause "there's no hope", its problems lie in the incoherence of the Catalyst and ****.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Controlling the reapers? People are going to suddenly accept their new reaper masters just because they stopped shooting at them? Your new galactic order will not end well. Yeah, you'll have them start rebuilding, but then they get to watch over everyone.... forever. You become the new Leviathans. They'll build synthetics. Then what? Maybe they'll build them to challenge the Reapers again. But the synthetics will turn on them. Will you recognize that you are part of the problem?  

If synthetics turning on organics is a problem in Destroy, surely it's an even worse problem in Control.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 juillet 2013 - 07:39 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

LinksOcarina wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Controlling the reapers? People are going to suddenly accept their new reaper masters just because they stopped shooting at them? Your new galactic order will not end well. Yeah, you'll have them start rebuilding, but then they get to watch over everyone.... forever. You become the new Leviathans. They'll build synthetics. Then what? Maybe they'll build them to challenge the Reapers again. But the synthetics will turn on them. Will you recognize that you are part of the problem?

Hope?

Destroy is hope. Too bad they tainted it. Too bad it was attached to the sucktastic ending.

As I said, I can easily say that destroying everything can lead to a repeat of history anyway, a delay in the inevitable because one day the predecessors to the Geth will rise up and kill people, and if that happens then the unvierse dies for sure. 

Isen't that just interpretation? And in that same vein, doesn't that validate all the endings at the same time? You hope destroy does what you want it to do. You don't know it does. Other Shepard's may think differently, does that invalidate their belief? 

But thinking that the other races won't learn from history is applying human history and human values to them. Applying our values and morals to them is racist.

And yes, you could do that. You could say that destroying everything could lead to a repeat of history anyway. The Asari seemed to be doing just fine before the reapers arrived. They were an economic powerhouse and were the first to discover the Citadel. They didn't seem hell bent on developing a synthetic to wipe out organic life. Neither did the Turians. Volus, Elcor, Hanar, or Drell. The Salarians tinker with genetics too much. The Quarians I think learned their lesson the hard way. Earth? Well there are still humans.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Asari seemed to be doing just fine before the reapers arrived. They were an economic powerhouse and were the first to discover the Citadel. They didn't seem hell bent on developing a synthetic to wipe out organic life. Neither did the Turians. Volus, Elcor, Hanar, or Drell. The Salarians tinker with genetics too much. The Quarians I think learned their lesson the hard way. Earth? Well there are still humans.

All you actually know is that the other races claim not to be working on AIs. So did humsns.

[LinksOcarina]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Controlling the reapers? People are going to suddenly accept their new reaper masters just because they stopped shooting at them? Your new galactic order will not end well. Yeah, you'll have them start rebuilding, but then they get to watch over everyone.... forever. You become the new Leviathans. They'll build synthetics. Then what? Maybe they'll build them to challenge the Reapers again. But the synthetics will turn on them. Will you recognize that you are part of the problem?

Hope?

Destroy is hope. Too bad they tainted it. Too bad it was attached to the sucktastic ending.

As I said, I can easily say that destroying everything can lead to a repeat of history anyway, a delay in the inevitable because one day the predecessors to the Geth will rise up and kill people, and if that happens then the unvierse dies for sure. 

Isen't that just interpretation? And in that same vein, doesn't that validate all the endings at the same time? You hope destroy does what you want it to do. You don't know it does. Other Shepard's may think differently, does that invalidate their belief? 

But thinking that the other races won't learn from history is applying human history and human values to them. Applying our values and morals to them is racist.

And yes, you could do that. You could say that destroying everything could lead to a repeat of history anyway. The Asari seemed to be doing just fine before the reapers arrived. They were an economic powerhouse and were the first to discover the Citadel. They didn't seem hell bent on developing a synthetic to wipe out organic life. Neither did the Turians. Volus, Elcor, Hanar, or Drell. The Salarians tinker with genetics too much. The Quarians I think learned their lesson the hard way. Earth? Well there are still humans.

You are missing the point.

You're banking on the hope that you are right. Does that invalidate the decisions of other Shepard's. It actually is a simple yes or no in this regard. Applying morals or not is a smokescreen. 

And  besides, as Alan said, if we are basing this on claims then why should we trust them over the predictions of the cycle by the Catalyst? 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 04 juillet 2013 - 08:37 .

[CptData]

Tron Mega wrote...

I wonder what synthesis thinks of the word fate.

Doom.

[In Exile]

David7204 wrote...

Why do people spew vitriol at me when I speak to defend these concepts of hope and heroism when it's incredibly clear from these comments that they're very important to players?

Because they vehemetly disagree with you on what hope and heroism mean? 

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
This is possible, but not necessary. Shepard can think that organics have no particular fate awaiting them, but nevertheless pick Control because he finds the consequences of Destroy unacceptable. I don't personally see a good reason for Synthesis if you don't believe in the synth/organic problem, though.

You're totally a transhumanist and the universe just dropped your proverbial utopia into your lap? 

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

But you are assuming that the Catalyst is right about the organic/synthetic conflict existing.

What if there is no such thing?

That's even worse, from a narrative sense. Then the player is forced to choose between three absolutely morally abhorent endings because the invincible and insane space god demands it. "Victory" is, effectively, picking between three versions of the dream utopia of the space tyrant. 

[Iakus]

Like I said there is no hope in these endings there is only the evil you are willing to permit

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...

Like I said there is no hope in these endings there is only the evil you are willing to permit

Once again, lots of hope in Destroy, the ending narration drips with it.