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[lightswitch]

Cyonan wrote...

...GI says hi and that he can break 5k with the Hurricane...

I was assuming no high caliber barrel because AFAIC, HS+EC+AP IV is the only way to go.

[Cyonan]

lightswitch wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

...GI says hi and that he can break 5k with the Hurricane...

I was assuming no high caliber barrel because AFAIC, HS+EC+AP IV is the only way to go.

Neither kit will actually break 5k without the HCB. Not even if you give the QMS Stim Packs.

My point however is that depending on which point of view I wish to use, I can use theorycrafting to say a lot of different things.

With the Reegar Carbine, the QMS has higher DPS than the AIU. The AIU also has higher DPS than the QMS.

Both of those statements are true depending on how you look at it.

[Dunvi]

Interestingly enough, QMS actually has the 3rd highest weapon damage bonus amongst the soldiers, before you apply consumables (which he gains extra benefit from given his multiplicative bonuses in marksman).

That said, I would have given him arc grenades, as well as the correct fitness tree and his current passive weapon bonuses. His arc grenades would be weaker than the other two QM's, in exchange for weapons platform awesomeness, and it would have filled out his main weakness: stagger and crowd control.

Not to mention his build wouldn't be so freaking brain dead.

Yes, lightswitch, I ran him with sabotage. I was in fact the last of my friends trying to make a 66464 (4 in tac scan) build work and it just... didn't. It doesn't stagger even remotely enough things, has a long cooldown, restricts your weapon choices to fairly light guns, and locks you out of marksman which is a million times better.

[iOnlySignIn]

lightswitch wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

He has no CC and no Cloak. Would still be just an alternative TSol that is slightly trickier (and more fun) to use.

Edit: Also, I mean post-nerf Stim Packs, with possible further Shield bonus reduction (proportional to his base Shields).

Trickier?

By which I mean you need to press more buttons than the TSol does.

What are you smoking? 

I don't smoke.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 03 juillet 2013 - 08:20 .

[Koenig888]

If either Sabotage or TacScan is replaced by a passive power like Fortification or Sentry Turret, QMS will be a lot more useful since a passive power will not interfere with Marksman spamming.

[Major Durza]

Dunvi wrote...
I would have given him arc grenades, as well as the correct fitness tree and[/i] his current passive weapon bonuses. His arc grenades would be weaker than the other two QM's, in exchange for weapons platform awesomeness, and it would have filled out his main weakness: stagger and crowd control.

... and render the Turian Soldier completely and utterly outclassed.
What would the Turian Soldier have over the QMS in that case... a bit more additive weapon damage, slightly more shields...
to compete with a dodging character with an immensely powerful wide area damage and CC power that doesn't interfere with marksman, and even has an objectively better debuff that synergizes well with the power?

Cheezus, and you say *I* want to overbuff my "pet" classes.:innocent:

If he were to have the (even weaker) arc grenades, then the differences between the two would have to be exaggerated.  The Turian Soldier would have to *clearly* win in ability to take damage and dish out weapon damage to compete with how much sheer carnage that Quarian Soldier could put out.

Quarian Soldier, more mobile and able to CC enemies without interfering with marksman, dishing out more damage over a wider area and keeping enemies off their feet.  That is a lot more surivivable than 150 more base shields.  And lets not forget about the better debuff that doesn't lock you out of marksman for more than a quarter second,

I'd like to see how it functions with its weapon passives as-is, while more inclined to think that the buff might need to be rolled back for the Turian to not be overshadowed by the Marksman, but be noticeably better in terms of weapon damage.

Anyway, I think I repeated myself once already, so actually going off to bed now before I begin to really ramble.

[Deerber]

Lmao AQ, are you nuts? A kit with marksman *and* arc grinades? Lol...

[Dunvi]

Major Durza wrote...

Dunvi wrote...
I would have given him arc grenades, as well as the correct fitness tree and[/i] his current passive weapon bonuses. His arc grenades would be weaker than the other two QM's, in exchange for weapons platform awesomeness, and it would have filled out his main weakness: stagger and crowd control.

... and render the Turian Soldier completely and utterly outclassed.
What would the Turian Soldier have over the QMS in that case... a bit more additive weapon damage, slightly more shields...
to compete with a dodging character with an immensely powerful wide area damage and CC power that doesn't interfere with marksman, and even has an objectively better debuff that synergizes well with the power?

Cheezus, and you say *I* want to overbuff my "pet" classes.:innocent:

If he were to have the (even weaker) arc grenades, then the differences between the two would have to be exaggerated.  The Turian Soldier would have to *clearly* win in ability to take damage and dish out weapon damage to compete with how much sheer carnage that Quarian Soldier could put out.

Quarian Soldier, more mobile and able to CC enemies without interfering with marksman, dishing out more damage over a wider area and keeping enemies off their feet.  That is a lot more surivivable than 150 more base shields.  And lets not forget about the better debuff that doesn't lock you out of marksman for more than a quarter second,

I'd like to see how it functions with its weapon passives as-is, while more inclined to think that the buff might need to be rolled back for the Turian to not be overshadowed by the Marksman, but be noticeably better in terms of weapon damage.

Anyway, I think I repeated myself once already, so actually going off to bed now before I begin to really ramble.

okay let me resay that actually

given current game balance, yes, i would give the QMS arcnades. the tsol is actually that much better than the qms, and the qms would now also be losing points out of anything else (all of which he really needs in order to be able to even look at the tsol) and be considering losing points from passives even to power damage.

you know me, durza. my argument is actually that the qms is quite balanced right now, right exactly the way he is, and many other kits are way way way out of line (tsol, destroyer, qmi, for example, are all way too good...)

[Deerber]

I still don't see why people claim the TSoldier is so much better than the poor Quarksman. Oh well...

[solidprice]

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

No. He will be perfectly well balanced.

this.

Deerber wrote...

I still don't see why people claim the TSoldier is so much better than the poor Quarksman. Oh well...

marksmen dies to a stray fart while turian solider takes a slege hammer to the face and keeps going.

figurative and literal:lol:

Modifié par solidprice, 03 juillet 2013 - 09:41 .

[Dunvi]

Deerber wrote...

I still don't see why people claim the TSoldier is so much better than the poor Quarksman. Oh well...

he honestly sort of is. the qms isn't as far behind as most people think, actually - as i said, he has the 3rd highest weapon damage bonus of all of the soldiers, and his is partially multiplicative so he will gain a lot from consumables too.

but that said, the tsol is that ridiculously far ahead balance wise T.T it's actually sorta depressing to really sit there and do the math out (i totally wasn't doing it by hand <.<).

Modifié par Dunvi, 03 juillet 2013 - 09:38 .

[d_nought]

Deerber wrote...

Lmao AQ, are you nuts? A kit with marksman *and* arc grinades? Lol...

We already have TC and Arc Grenades, and unlike Marksman, TC buffs both weapons and powers.

Plus, Marksman needs 6 ranks for good effectiveness vs TC's 4.

[Dunvi]

d_nought wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Lmao AQ, are you nuts? A kit with marksman *and* arc grinades? Lol...

We already have TC and Arc Grenades, and unlike Marksman, TC buffs both weapons and powers.

Plus, Marksman needs 6 ranks for good effectiveness vs TC's 4.

^ this is what i was thinking about when i made my first post. the second one is more accurate - qms is actually pretty comfortable balance-wise in my opinion, tsol has been buffed to all hell, qmi never should have existed (i'm sorry, i still love you D:) etc etc

[dudemacha]

Quarian version of hydra hawk missiles which instead of having a shield penalty has a small DR to make him a little bit more survivable, giving him a CD less CC which can deal decent damage if the target is tac scanned.......all problems solved

[Major Durza]

Dunvi wrote...

okay let me resay that actually

given current game balance, yes, i would give the QMS arcnades. the tsol is actually that much better than the qms, and the qms would now also be losing points out of anything else (all of which he really needs in order to be able to even look at the tsol) and be considering losing points from passives even to power damage.

you know me, durza. my argument is actually that the qms is quite balanced right now, right exactly the way he is, and many other kits are way way way out of line (tsol, destroyer, qmi, for example, are all way too good...)

QMS given arcnades as-is would likely put him above the TSol somwhat noticeably as-is since they add a ****ton to survivability and ability to sustain his weapon damage.  Which is why I would say that some passive buff rollback may be necessary.
And come on, even as silly as arcnades are, the usefulness of weapons passive would outweight the usefulness of power passive in his case, handily.
I know I would not invest any points in power damage on that character, at all, make marksman more powerful with Arcnades as utility.  The utiliity of arcnades radius, and the debuff that synergizes with Marksman, and the dodge?  The Turian would have to have the noticable greater ability to take a hit and do weapon damage to compete with that Quarian Soldier's near flawless synergy.

I'll have to give the two another whirl with similar setups, but I do not recall thinking the discrepancy betwen the two as ecactly ginormous in practice, especially considering the QMS's debuff actually synergizes with Marksman.
Don't get me wrong, the Quarian definitely loses to the TSol, but the situation you present (Better fitness, current passives, and arcnades) would more than reverse the situation, and make the QMS a no-brainer better choice overall than the TSol.

[Deerber]

d_nought wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Lmao AQ, are you nuts? A kit with marksman *and* arc grinades? Lol...

We already have TC and Arc Grenades, and unlike Marksman, TC buffs both weapons and powers.

Plus, Marksman needs 6 ranks for good effectiveness vs TC's 4.

The fact that the QMI might be one of the 3 most broken kits in the game doesn't mean adding another one would be a good idea... Does it?

solidprice wrote...

Deerber wrote...

I still don't see why people claim the TSoldier is so much better than the poor Quarksman. Oh well...

marksmen dies to a stray fart while turian solider takes a slege hammer to the face and keeps going.

figurative and literal:lol:

Yeah, but you forgot that the Turian can take a hammer to the face because has no way to avoid it, while the Quarian can't because... Well, dodge anyone?

Dunvi wrote...

Deerber wrote...

I still don't see why people claim the TSoldier is so much better than the poor Quarksman. Oh well...

he honestly sort of is. the qms isn't as far behind as most people think, actually - as i said, he has the 3rd highest weapon damage bonus of all of the soldiers, and his is partially multiplicative so he will gain a lot from consumables too.

but that said, the tsol is that ridiculously far ahead balance wise T.T it's actually sorta depressing to really sit there and do the math out (i totally wasn't doing it by hand <.<).

I honestly still don't understand why the Tsoldier is so much better. When I use it, I find myself using marksman 95% of the time anyway, and I barely use PM and CS. Masksman is just so OMG powerful you hardly use anything else. So... Why would the Turian be so much better?

Modifié par Deerber, 03 juillet 2013 - 09:52 .

[d_nought]

Deerber wrote...
3 most broken kits in the game 

Not even close

[Deerber]

d_nought wrote...

Deerber wrote...
3 most broken kits in the game 

Not even close

Well, everyone's got his opinion I guess. What are the 3 most broken kits for you then?

[asdpoiu]

mybudgee wrote...

Agreed. Quarian Soldier pretty much blows

Someone hasn't used the Raider with Marksman.

[dudemacha]

Jack989 wrote...

Nik6454 wrote...

Quarian version of hydra hawk missiles which instead of having a shield penalty has a small DR to make him a little bit more survivable, giving him a CD less CC which can deal decent damage if the target is tac scanned.......all problems solved

Predator style shoulder cannon...omg...brilliant!  *drool*

Your right ....quarian predator soldier.....but given that predator in this game is far from a badass name, i think its a bad idea

[Dunvi]

Deerber wrote...

I honestly still don't understand why the Tsoldier is so much better. When I use it, I find myself using marksman 95% of the time anyway, and I barely use PM and CS. Masksman is just so OMG powerful you hardly use anything else. So... Why would the Turian be so much better?

main thing is the combination of bonus headshot modifier with accuracy buffs from marksman with stability buffs from passives, with inherently better damage bonuses to begin with.

to some extent, my complaint is that the qms takes a lot more skill and doesn't get rewarded for it. the tsol in my opinion does not deserve both easy headshots and extra powerful ones.

[Deerber]

Dunvi wrote...

Deerber wrote...

I honestly still don't understand why the Tsoldier is so much better. When I use it, I find myself using marksman 95% of the time anyway, and I barely use PM and CS. Masksman is just so OMG powerful you hardly use anything else. So... Why would the Turian be so much better?

main thing is the combination of bonus headshot modifier with accuracy buffs from marksman with stability buffs from passives, with inherently better damage bonuses to begin with.

to some extent, my complaint is that the qms takes a lot more skill and doesn't get rewarded for it. the tsol in my opinion does not deserve both easy headshots and extra powerful ones.

Ok, I can understand that. And I'm not arguing that the Quarian is better, I can see the Turian being slightly better. But what bugs me is everyone saying there's absolutely no reason to play the Quarian because the Turian does it 10 times better. That's just flat out false.

You have better headshots and easier ones, but how much is that really going to count in a match? Headshots are already powerful enough to kill mooks before you can even think about switching targets. The time it takes to clear a mooks spawn with these classes and a good weapon is much, much more dependant on your skills, aim and retargeting time than on your character's bonuses. On bosses, marksman headshot evo doesn't work, and therefore the difference isn't so huge. Not to count the fact that tac scan is a much much better pure debuff than PM.

Most of the guns have no problem whatsoever in getting headshots with or without the stability bonus, and on the ones that have problems you can always equip a stab module on the Quarian because you can dodge and therefore don't really need a cyclonic. Without going into how much a dodge is important in every aspect of this game.

I mean, the turian's bonuses re all nice things to have, but are they so game-changing? I don't think so.

Modifié par Deerber, 03 juillet 2013 - 10:24 .

[d_nought]

Deerber wrote...

d_nought wrote...

Deerber wrote...
3 most broken kits in the game 

Not even close

Well, everyone's got his opinion I guess. What are the 3 most broken kits for you then?

I could make a top 3/5 of a lot of things. But I would say:

Batarian Soldier
Krogan Soldier
Male Quarian Engineer

for pure and utter spam obscenity furthered by the use of glitches (i.e. Incendiary Reegar). QMI is a bit closer in terms of non glitched classes.

If you want my top 5 personal best for soloing (not quite the same, but might be relevant), then in no particular order:
N7 Fury
Batarian Soldier
Geth Infiltrator
Krogan Vanguard
N7 Slayer

Modifié par d_nought, 03 juillet 2013 - 11:03 .

[Deerber]

d_nought wrote...

Deerber wrote...

d_nought wrote...

Deerber wrote...
3 most broken kits in the game 

Not even close

Well, everyone's got his opinion I guess. What are the 3 most broken kits for you then?

I could make a top 3/5 of a lot of things. But I would say:

Batarian Soldier
Krogan Soldier
Male Quarian Engineer

for pure and utter spam obscenity furthered by the use of glitches (i.e. Incendiary Reegar). QMI is a bit closer in terms of non glitched classes.

If you want my top 5 personal best for soloing (not quite the same, but might be relevant), then in no particular order:
N7 Fury
Batarian Soldier
Geth Infiltrator
Krogan Vanguard
N7 Slayer

Uhm, I personally don't think the solo part is relevant. I agree with it, but it's not relevant.

To be clear, I'm talking about a 4 team match and without taking glitches into account, as I think those are the conditions under which one should evaluate stuff in order to balance it. (yeah well, hypothetical thinking, AQ's the one who started it! )

Under those conditions, the Batarian and the Krogan soldiers fall way behind the QMI. The QME is closer, but I would argue that TC still beats the crap out of incinerate even with the explosions galore. 

GI is obviously superior. Actually not so obviously, but probably superior.

Other than that, I don't see anything having clearly a better damage output, on average on any difficulty, any map and enemy.