219 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

Striker93175 wrote...

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Adrenaline Rush bonus power doesn't work with Marksman

There isnt a kit with both tho so we don't know that!?  
It could..... and it would be glorious if it did.

I think Merc is speaking by SP experience.

[Miniditka77]

Deerber wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Deerber wrote...

I honestly still don't understand why the Tsoldier is so much better. When I use it, I find myself using marksman 95% of the time anyway, and I barely use PM and CS. Masksman is just so OMG powerful you hardly use anything else. So... Why would the Turian be so much better?

main thing is the combination of bonus headshot modifier with accuracy buffs from marksman with stability buffs from passives, with inherently better damage bonuses to begin with.

to some extent, my complaint is that the qms takes a lot more skill and doesn't get rewarded for it. the tsol in my opinion does not deserve both easy headshots and extra powerful ones.

Ok, I can understand that. And I'm not arguing that the Quarian is better, I can see the Turian being slightly better. But what bugs me is everyone saying there's absolutely no reason to play the Quarian because the Turian does it 10 times better. That's just flat out false.

You have better headshots and easier ones, but how much is that really going to count in a match? Headshots are already powerful enough to kill mooks before you can even think about switching targets. The time it takes to clear a mooks spawn with these classes and a good weapon is much, much more dependant on your skills, aim and retargeting time than on your character's bonuses. On bosses, marksman headshot evo doesn't work, and therefore the difference isn't so huge. Not to count the fact that tac scan is a much much better pure debuff than PM.

Most of the guns have no problem whatsoever in getting headshots with or without the stability bonus, and on the ones that have problems you can always equip a stab module on the Quarian because you can dodge and therefore don't really need a cyclonic. Without going into how much a dodge is important in every aspect of this game.

I mean, the turian's bonuses re all nice things to have, but are they so game-changing? I don't think so.

I think the Quarian is actually better against bosses than the Turian.  You can get an incredible, long-lasting debuff from Tac Scan, which doesn't mess up your Marksman cooldown like Proxy Mine does.  Depending on your weapon, the Proxy Mine cooldown can often last almost as long as the debuff, and I've been trying to use the Turian by speccing completely out of Proxy Mine lately.  Also, the lack of stability bonuses on the Quarian doesn't affect you really against bosses, because they're so big it can be hard to miss them, even with some of the most unstable weapons.

[lightswitch]

Cyonan wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

...GI says hi and that he can break 5k with the Hurricane...

I was assuming no high caliber barrel because AFAIC, HS+EC+AP IV is the only way to go.

Neither kit will actually break 5k without the HCB. Not even if you give the QMS Stim Packs.

(1.3+.3+.15+.225)*1.325*1.5*1281  = 5028

????

although fwiw I was basing my 5k+ plus estimates from earlier on the Harrier with an EB.

[edit] at any rate it's all theoretical and the point of bringing up the GI-Hurricane was just as a point of comparison. Bottom line is the QMS is already capable of putting out elite-tier damage, and adding or Stims or Arc Grenades or any other damage increasing power that doesn't use the GCD (Phase Distruptor anyone? that would just be too much fun) is likely going to push him into the 'just seems unfair' territory.

Modifié par lightswitch, 03 juillet 2013 - 09:39 .

[Kushiel42]

Not OP. The main strength of Arc Grenades is their ability to easily set up and set off combos, neither of which the Marksman would be able to do if he had them instead of Sabotage.

[Kushiel42]

Air Quotes wrote...

He would be able to detonate his ammo powers. 

True, but those same explosions can be detonated by nearly every kit in the game, and nearly every kit in the game isn't OP. Probably because ammo-based combos aren't very good.

[Guglio08]

Not every kit needs to have CC.

The QMS has Sabotage so that you never spec into it. His skill points are better allocated to the powers that benefit his purpose: single target damage.

But if you want some sort of stagger on him, use the Adas.

[lightswitch]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ammo power explosions are all lvl 6. That's why Drell Vanguard can demolish spawns with Incendiary prime and cluster detonation. 

Was this a recent revelation that I missed? Because it's the opposite of everything I ever thought I knew about combo mechanics.

x2 ammo power primed combos are supposed to do something like 1181 damage IIRC, while a 6+6 power primed explosion does 1687 or so. Sure it's only a difference of 500 damage - the truth of most tech combos is that normally most of the damage comes directly from the powers themselves. 

If the QMS did have Arcs though, I'd barely bother with setting off combos because the damage from combos would be fractional compared to the direct damage from his weapon and from the arcs. I mean on the QME with a power amp IV an Arc does something like 3000 direct damage to shields and stun locks everything, so I'd just find a spawn, drop a grenade on it so every mook is stripped of its' shields, and then headshot everything. I mean sure I'd probably set off the odd fire explosion here and there if it seemed convenient but fractionally you wouldn't be gaining that much damage for a kit that can pump out 4000+ DPS and do 3000 AoE direct damage to shields.

[UnknownMercenary]

what?

I'm pretty certain all ammo power explosions are level 1

drells being able to demolish spawns are due to how powerful clusters are, and the ignite chance of incendiary ammo being pretty high with level 3 ammo (and instant with level 4)

Modifié par UnknownMercenary, 04 juillet 2013 - 01:11 .

[The Rainbow Reaper]

Nope

[Dunvi]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ammo power explosions are all lvl 6. That's why Drell Vanguard can demolish spawns with Incendiary prime and cluster detonation. 

................................aqpls

[Zjarcal]

AQ.... PLS

It's amazing how misinformed you are about this game.

[RedJohn]

What is happening here, I don't want to read the entire thread ( i will probably end doing it but I want a short version now )

[lightswitch]

RedJohn wrote...

What is happening here, I don't want to read the entire thread ( i will probably end doing it but I want a short version now )

Some people don't understand how good marksman is, I'm having fun foolishly speculating about the strength of a Quarian Marksman with stims in place of Sabotage, and Air Quotes does not seem to be aware how power comboing works.

Oh and people seem to be underrating arc grenades in general. Fwiw I hadn't used them much lately so I just played a couple games with the MQE...geez. That kit is slick. QMS with Arcs would be better though. I don't know if 'OP' per se in the common usage of the word...but it would be a really great kit.

Modifié par lightswitch, 04 juillet 2013 - 02:58 .

[Guglio08]

Air Quotes wrote...

Yeah, and waste my headshot or accuracy bonuses? If he had Arc nades you could easily go 6/4/6/6/4 - meaning 4 it tactical scan and 4 in fitness. 

That's the point - he's not supposed to be able to do everything.

If you want to use the accuracy bonuses, use a gun that benefits that - at the expense of CC. Or, use the Adas for CC, but you sacrifice the ability to use the accuracy benefits. 

I don't know what is with this obsession of every kit being able to do everything.

[Cyonan]

lightswitch wrote...

(1.3+.3+.15+.225)*1.325*1.5*1281 = 5028

????

although fwiw I was basing my 5k+ plus estimates from earlier on the Harrier with an EB.

[edit] at any rate it's all theoretical and the point of bringing up the GI-Hurricane was just as a point of comparison. Bottom line is the QMS is already capable of putting out elite-tier damage, and adding or Stims or Arc Grenades or any other damage increasing power that doesn't use the GCD (Phase Distruptor anyone? that would just be too much fun) is likely going to push him into the 'just seems unfair' territory.

Stim Packs are 20.5%, not 22.5% which drops it just below 5k. They mainly make him OP because survivability rather than damage boosts, and we don't need TGI: Quarian Edition in the game.

Either way, if you're going to give something as a point of comparison then you should do so using the same setup, otherwise it just looks like your stacking things in your favour(which you kind of are seeing as how you gave the QMS EB but not the GI).

The Quarian Marksman has very good DPS yes, however consider that Marksman does not grant a 50% DPS gain across multiple clips(which if you are using the Harrier, you will run through multiple clips).

5k DPS might seem impressive, but the QMS is going to have trouble keeping it up =P

He still should have something other than Sabotage or, more ideally, Sabotage should be less bad.

Modifié par Cyonan, 04 juillet 2013 - 03:16 .

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not saying every kit has to be able to do everything. But there's a reason he's one of the most unpopular kits. And Soldiers are all pretty popular. And the reason is - he has no synergy, no CC and even with full fitness he's still squishy BECAUSE he has no CC. 

When you look at EVERY oteher soldier - they all have some form of CC and some even have 2. And many of them have 1 power on CD or no CD at all, Quarian has all 3. 

If I were to guess based on BSN, I would say that he's unpopular due to people incorrectly thinking that the Turian Soldier is a better gunner.

Both having Marksman + debuff doesn't help though, since it means having nearly identical playstyles.