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[lightswitch]

Cyonan wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

(1.3+.3+.15+.225)*1.325*1.5*1281 = 5028

????

although fwiw I was basing my 5k+ plus estimates from earlier on the Harrier with an EB.

[edit] at any rate it's all theoretical and the point of bringing up the GI-Hurricane was just as a point of comparison. Bottom line is the QMS is already capable of putting out elite-tier damage, and adding or Stims or Arc Grenades or any other damage increasing power that doesn't use the GCD (Phase Distruptor anyone? that would just be too much fun) is likely going to push him into the 'just seems unfair' territory.

Stim Packs are 20.5%, not 22.5% which drops it just below 5k. They mainly make him OP because survivability rather than damage boosts, and we don't need TGI: Quarian Edition in the game.

Either way, if you're going to give something as a point of comparison then you should do so using the same setup, otherwise it just looks like your stacking things in your favour(which you kind of are seeing as how you gave the QMS EB but not the GI).

The Quarian Marksman has very good DPS yes, however consider that Marksman does not grant a 50% DPS gain across multiple clips(which if you are using the Harrier, you will run through multiple clips).

5k DPS might seem impressive, but the QMS is going to have trouble keeping it up =P

He still should have something other than Sabotage or, more ideally, Sabotage should be less bad.

stacking it in my favor? what the...I wasn't even trying to start an argument about whether the QMS or GI would be superior. Pretty sure the wall hack and speed would still leave the GI as the superior kit. All I was saying was "hey you know how much damage this one thing you've all tried does? Add stims and the QMS could do something more than that." Even if I was apparently mistaken. I wonder if the QMS might make up the difference with ammo power damage though.

also, not sure how I got 22.5 stuck in my head. Good call

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not saying every kit has to be able to do everything. But there's a reason he's one of the most unpopular kits. And Soldiers are all pretty popular. And the reason is - he has no synergy, no CC and even with full fitness he's still squishy BECAUSE he has no CC. 

When you look at EVERY oteher soldier - they all have some form of CC and some even have 2. And many of them have 1 power on CD or no CD at all, Quarian has all 3. 

If I were to guess based on BSN, I would say that he's unpopular due to people incorrectly thinking that the Turian Soldier is a better gunner.

Both having Marksman + debuff doesn't help though, since it means having nearly identical playstyles.

 

There's LOTS of identical or very similar playstyles. 

Which results in people think one is superior to the other, unless the slight difference has some significant meaning in a very specific situation.

In this case, people think the Turian is superior to the Quarian.

Though I don't agree with giving him spammable AoE. Maybe Homing or Sticky Grenade since they don't hit the entire group that you threw the grenade in the general direction of.

Recon Mine would be amusing to just to see team based wall hack between that and Tac Scan, but the cooldown is too big for the Marksman. Maybe if he had Adrenaline Rush instead for the bonus power.

[lightswitch]

Cyonan wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not saying every kit has to be able to do everything. But there's a reason he's one of the most unpopular kits. And Soldiers are all pretty popular. And the reason is - he has no synergy, no CC and even with full fitness he's still squishy BECAUSE he has no CC. 

When you look at EVERY oteher soldier - they all have some form of CC and some even have 2. And many of them have 1 power on CD or no CD at all, Quarian has all 3. 

If I were to guess based on BSN, I would say that he's unpopular due to people incorrectly thinking that the Turian Soldier is a better gunner.

Both having Marksman + debuff doesn't help though, since it means having nearly identical playstyles.

 

There's LOTS of identical or very similar playstyles. 

Which results in people think one is superior to the other, unless the slight difference has some significant meaning in a very specific situation.

In this case, people think the Turian is superior to the Quarian.

Though I don't agree with giving him spammable AoE. Maybe Homing or Sticky Grenade since they don't hit the entire group that you threw the grenade in the general direction of.

Recon Mine would be amusing to just to see team based wall hack between that and Tac Scan, but the cooldown is too big for the Marksman. Maybe if he had Adrenaline Rush instead for the bonus power.

Recon mine...actually I think that would work. The player would have to be really careful about deploying it, meaning he couldn't move it around constantly in the middle of a wave so that would offset the ridiculous damage output he would get from stacking the scan, tac scan, and MM...I like it.

[Cyonan]

lightswitch wrote...

stacking it in my favor? what the...I wasn't even trying to start an argument about whether the QMS or GI would be superior. Pretty sure the wall hack and speed would still leave the GI as the superior kit. All I was saying was "hey you know how much damage this one thing you've all tried does? Add stims and the QMS could do something more than that." Even if I was apparently mistaken. I wonder if the QMS might make up the difference with ammo power damage though.

also, not sure how I got 22.5 stuck in my head. Good call

I don't think either of us were trying to start an argument about which kit was superior, but you were using the comparison as an argument as to how the QMS is already top-tier DPS. I was pointing out that your comparison is misleading since you didn't specify that you didn't give the GI a 25% damage boosting mod(which I use the HCB on every kit with the Hurricane except the Marksman ones) that would allow him to break the DPS mark you said he couldn't.

Although as I've been saying, sustained DPS is a better stat to use here.

[Cyonan]

lightswitch wrote...

Recon mine...actually I think that would work. The player would have to be really careful about deploying it, meaning he couldn't move it around constantly in the middle of a wave so that would offset the ridiculous damage output he would get from stacking the scan, tac scan, and MM...I like it.

I didn't even think about the damage boost.

I kind of just wanted to be able to scan half the map at once =P

[MaxShine]

Well, a grenade power on these Marksman classes would be a nice change

[lightswitch]

It didn't even occur to me to see how the GI would do with the HCB because I don't ever use it.

also 1.75*1.25*1.325*1.5*1281=5569 burst lol

plus 60% slowing effect from stacking RM and TS on bosses...

I like it because it would increase the QMS's potential damage output while maintaining his niche as a high-risk, high-reward, glass cannon kit.

Modifié par lightswitch, 04 juillet 2013 - 04:05 .

[AuntJemima80]

Yes, he'd be awesome.

[Tallgeese_VII]

pm655 wrote...

Yes, he'd be awesome.

and much more fun.

[Guglio08]

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not saying every kit has to be able to do everything. But there's a reason he's one of the most unpopular kits. And Soldiers are all pretty popular. And the reason is - he has no synergy, no CC and even with full fitness he's still squishy BECAUSE he has no CC. 

When you look at EVERY [other] soldier - they all have some form of CC and some even have 2. And many of them have 1 power on CD or no CD at all, Quarian has all 3. 

Or he's squishy because he's a Quarian?

Sabotage isn't a bad power inherently -  it's really good in the SP - but it's a bad power in the MP because BioWare has no idea how to balance anything. If Sabotage actually overheated enemy weapons for a couple of seconds, he would be a pretty good kit.

But now he's at the level of the FQI, because Sabotage as a power sucks, not the fact that he lacks CC.

Modifié par Guglio08, 04 juillet 2013 - 07:41 .

[Dunvi]

Guglio08 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not saying every kit has to be able to do everything. But there's a reason he's one of the most unpopular kits. And Soldiers are all pretty popular. And the reason is - he has no synergy, no CC and even with full fitness he's still squishy BECAUSE he has no CC. 

When you look at EVERY [other] soldier - they all have some form of CC and some even have 2. And many of them have 1 power on CD or no CD at all, Quarian has all 3. 

Or he's squishy because he's a Quarian?

Sabotage isn't a bad power inherently -  it's really good in the SP - but it's a bad power in the MP because BioWare has no idea how to balance anything. If Sabotage actually overheated enemy weapons for a couple of seconds, he would be a pretty good kit.

But now he's at the level of the FQI, because Sabotage as a power sucks, not the fact that he lacks CC.

I agree with this statement, but would like to point out that FQI is still one of the most powerful kits in the game despite her rampant nerfs, because loltaccloak.

[Deerber]

Zjarcal wrote...

AQ.... PLS

It's amazing how misinformed you are about this game.

Pretty much. You'd think that without talking that much about the balance in the game, one would inform himself of how things work? 

Cyonan wrote...

If I were to guess based on BSN, I would say that he's unpopular due to people incorrectly thinking that the Turian Soldier is a better gunner.

Cyonan wrote...

He still should have something other than Sabotage or, more ideally, Sabotage should be less bad.

So I'm not the only fool thinking these things. Good :happy:

[Original Twigman]

Air Quotes wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

AQ.... PLS

It's amazing how misinformed you are about this game.

 

 Drell Vanguard is not really all that powerful. 

/thread

/lifeonplanet

[Sebastianthorson]

Cyonan wrote...

I didn't even think about the damage boost.

Well, if it could be made that recon mine and tac scan override each other (depending on str. of debuff) instead of stacking....

[INFINITY650]

He is actually my favorite char. against the Collectors. Tac scan the big guys and use a PPR and watch things melt, use Marksman for those times you run out of ammo, or use a harrier if you want to go easy mode. He's actually quite good, plus dodge is damn helpful.

[Mandalorkian]

I like the power of grenades, especially against the mini-bosses-like enemies (brutes, banshees, scions, praetorians, phantoms, atlases, and geth primes) and groups of weaker enemies (one for shields, one for clean-up), but they run out quickly, and ammunition boxes never seem to fill my grenade-capacity, even without the extra-grenades gears. I generally prefer a limitless amount of uses with my powers, so I would keep the reliable Sabotage over the ammo-dependent Arc-Grenades for that fact alone.

[RazrStorm]

 So glad he doesn't.  I am so tired of grenade abilities.  If i wanted to have grenades i'd go play the demolisher.

[BIGGLESBY]

Grenade management is simply being aware of who you are in the lobby with, remembering to visit ammo boxes regularily, and to equip weapons you can drain the ammo of fairly quickly to replenish your grenades via thermal clip packs. Being smart with your usage goes without saying.

That being said, Arc Grenades, as beautiful of a power they are, would not be very interesting on the Marksman. A 'grenade' type of power would be interesting to synergize with Marksman, maybe a type of balanced Stim Pack for movement speed, health regeneration, or enemy highlighting or along those lines. Or maybe a brief Snap Freeze-esque electrical surge that damaged shields/stunned mooks. Something that tied in with their relation with their suits for combat usage.

[Creator Limbs]

why did you bring this thread back ugh

no more arc grenades

i'm done with arc grenades

[BIGGLESBY]

RazrStorm wrote...

 So glad he doesn't.  I am so tired of grenade abilities.  If i wanted to have grenades i'd go play the demolisher.

The appeal with grenades or limited charge powers like the Nightshade Blades or Stim Packs is that they synergize with the Marksman skill, which you are more often than not spamming to get the best out of your weapon. This way you won't have to deal with cool downs, just usages. There are activated skills like Devastator Mode and Hunter Mode that would benefit the kit (certainly not saying to put the exact skills on the Marksman, mind you), however a passive skill would be hard to balance with a powerful skill like Marksman.

[BIGGLESBY]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

why did you bring this thread back ugh

no more arc grenades

i'm done with arc grenades

SerBiggs[Arc Grenade]prostheticlimbs

SerBiggs has bled out

[Creator Limbs]

Biggs, please get online more :/