86 réponses à ce sujet

[Zetheria Tabris]

Forgive me if this has been addressed already.

I just saw The Fires Above trailer, and I couldn't help but think of the prophesy Sandal tells Hawke in DAII. The trailer's here, if you haven't seen it.

This is what Sandal told Hawke:

One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see.


As you saw in the trailer, the skies parted. Also, it seems like the opening is a portal to the Fade. You see demons (or monsters who look like demons) afterward. I think the huge tear in the Fade could be the result of the "magic" coming back. Perhaps all of the elves will become mages again (they all had magic before the humans came, right?) He said that everyone would be just as they were. It was said that they were immortal before being contacted by humans, so maybe they become immortal again as well. I also heard that dwarves used to have magic, but I'm unsure about that.

Also I can't help but think that the 'he' Sandal refers to is the dragon. He said "when he rises, everyone will see." Maybe it's just me, but when I thought of "him" rising, I immediately thought about a dragon, or some type of powerful, mystical being. I think that the dragon is either Morrigan's OGB in Urthemiel's form, or Flemeth. I know Bioware said they wouldn't make the OGB canon, but I never really believed that. It's just too good of a plot line to pass up.

Morrigan confirms the OGB as being a boy in Witch Hunt. And since he has the soul of an Old God, who was a dragon, maybe he can become one too. Or maybe it's Flemeth. The horns look similar to hers.

I think Flemeth made contact with Sandal during the events of DAII. Why? Couldn't say. He's a savant, so maybe there's something about him that's important to her. I think she told him the prophesy. Sandal also made a remark about an old lady, and how she scared him. I think he was talking about Flemeth. They were both in Kirkwall together around the same time, so it's not that far of a stretch...is it?

I would have thought that the 'he who rises' would be the Maker, but since Morrigan was the narrator of the trailer, it just makes me think that she and her family are heavily involved in this: Flemeth and the OGB.

My point is...do you think Sandal's prophesy speaks of the OGB, or Flemeth? And do you think the sky parting is close to my theory? Or do you think it's the Maker, or something else? Once again, if something like this was already discussed or confirmed by a dev, I apologize. I haven't been on the forums in a while, and only just learned of the trailer.

Bit off topic: Is it just me, or does Morrigan look more like Flemeth now? Maybe she'll eventually turn into someone like Flemeth, or Flemeth stole her body like she wanted to in Origins?

Modifié par Zetheria Tabris, 04 juillet 2013 - 02:24 .

[Alex109222]

I'd rather the OGB not be canon and be entirely dictated by your choices. "He" could even be the inquisitor, (even though you can choose a gender).
I just don't want OGB to be cannon because it'll completely ruin my entire playthrough because I never made the choice, so I expect it to stay that way.

[whykikyouwhy]

The trailer could depict Sandal's prophecy, or Eleni Zenovia's. Or both. (or heck, neither.) There are definitely some parallels that can be drawn.

I'm a little torn on the whole dragon identity thing - high dragons are female, though the Old Gods (in seemingly high dragon form) are referred to as male. That could hearken to pronoun trouble - just some tendency to apply a male pronoun to a creature, and/or a deity, or it could represent an aspect that the Old Gods took on.

I'm inclined to regard the trailer-dragon as possibly being Flemeth, though there are some differences in coloring and such. Maybe Morrigan has achieved dragon status. Or maybe Hawke learned the dragon trick.

Zetheria Tabris wrote...
Bit off topic: Is it just me, or does Morrigan look more like Flemeth now? Maybe she'll eventually turn into someone like Flemeth, or Flemeth stole her body like she wanted to in Origins?

Perhaps it's Flemeth who is turning into Morrigan. For all we know, in her youth and splendor, Asha'Bellanar was a raven-haired beauty with a penchant for acerbic retorts.

[Wolfva2]

**** ***** *****, THAT was game footage?!? Man, I'm looking forward to this game even more...regardless fo what the freakin plot is <LOL>.

Personally though, I'm hoping it doesn't surround the OGB. Because if it does, that completely discounts those of us who refused Morigans dark ritual and who delivered the killing blow to the archdemon. Unless it turns out that the dark ritual was just to save the Warden's life and ended up having nothing to do with Morigan's spawn, who was always going to be that powerful.

And was that Varric in the begining?

Modifié par BioWareMod04, 03 juillet 2013 - 11:52 .

[Zetheria Tabris]

Alex109222 wrote...

I'd rather the OGB not be canon and be entirely dictated by your choices. "He" could even be the inquisitor, (even though you can choose a gender).
I just don't want OGB to be cannon because it'll completely ruin my entire playthrough because I never made the choice, so I expect it to stay that way.

Bioware could find a way around The Warden not choosing the Dark Ritual, I'm sure, if they really wanted to. I'm not saying it would be fair to the people who didn't choose to have the OGB, but it's not like they haven't ignored player choice before.

Saying that the Inquisitor will "rise" is similar to Hawke's "Rise to Power." It sets high expectations for the protagonist. I hope they don't go down that road again. Too risky.

whykikyouwhy wrote...

The trailer could depict Sandal's
prophecy, or Eleni Zenovia's. Or both. (or heck, neither.) There are
definitely some parallels that can be drawn.

I'm a little torn on
the whole dragon identity thing - high dragons are female, though the
Old Gods (in seemingly high dragon form) are referred to as male. That
could hearken to pronoun trouble - just some tendency to apply a male
pronoun to a creature, and/or a deity, or it could represent an aspect
that the Old Gods took on.

I'm inclined to regard the
trailer-dragon as possibly being Flemeth, though there are some
differences in coloring and such. Maybe Morrigan has achieved dragon
status. Or maybe Hawke learned the dragon trick.

Perhaps
it's Flemeth who is turning into Morrigan. For all we know, in her
youth and splendor, Asha'Bellanar was a raven-haired beauty with a
penchant for acerbic retorts.

Who is Eleni Zenovia?

Maybe the regular high dragons are female, but the Old Gods are male. Or perhaps the Old Gods simply possess female high dragons to gain earthly bodies - a vessel. 

Flemeth needs a new body to regain her youth, particularly one she has trained to be powerful, like Morrigan. Here's hoping Morrigan's genes are just showing with age. I'd hate for her to be body snatched by Flemeth. Especially after how hard my Wardens fought to save her.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Wolfva2 wrote...

And was that Varric in the begining?

That was indeed Varric. They covered his chest hair.

[Chagrinned Goat]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

Who is Eleni Zenovia?

Eleni Zinovia is the talking statue from the mage origin and Witch Hunt.

[Inanna Athanasia]

BioWareMod04 wrote...

**** ***** *****, THAT was game footage?!? Man, I'm looking forward to this game even more...regardless fo what the freakin plot is <LOL>.

Personally though, I'm hoping it doesn't surround the OGB. Because if it does, that completely discounts those of us who refused Morigans dark ritual and who delivered the killing blow to the archdemon. Unless it turns out that the dark ritual was just to save the Warden's life and ended up having nothing to do with Morigan's spawn, who was always going to be that powerful.

And was that Varric in the begining?

yeah, not like they would ever do that to the game, I mean a Warden dying and then they choose to ignore it?? *cough* Awakening *cough*. I just love how Alistair mourned his love dying to save his country and the loss of his Queen only to say" Hello Wife" at the beginning of Awakening. So I "pray" they won't, but I am not going to get my hopes up over the chance that it will indeed be cannon that the Warden did the ritual. I am just trying to not think to much into it and be worked up on what ifs.

[Baelyn]

**Minor spoilers if you haven't read the graphic novels.**

Keep in mind, we have no concrete proof that the tale that Morrigan spun us about Flemeth using her for her body is true, actually we have 2 different people refuting it, Yvanna from the comics (Morrigan's sister) and Flemeth herself.

It is totally likely that Morrigan made this up to get our Warden to kill Flemeth.

As far as the dragon in the trailer, I am quite positive that is a High Dragon as there is an exact copy of its concept art in Dragon Age: World of Thedas that identifies it as a High Dragon.

Flemeth's dragon form looks quite different upon inspection.

Also, keep in mind that whenever the Old Gods are mentioned, they are said to "have taken dragon form," not necessarily that they are dragons. They possibly did this as this is a form they new the early humans would fear and revere. This would explain why male Old Gods could take the form of female High Dragons. (And just for reference, there is one female Old God as well).

[azarhal]

I used to believe that " Everyone will be just like they were" meant that everyone would get magic back (because of the Nexus Golem in DA2), but the more I think about it, the more I believe it just mean that the Fade breach won't cause any change to people: they will be just like they were before the skies parted.

The OGB IS NOT canon. Confirmed multiple times by Mr. Gaider.

"The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." <= This could just be what we see in the trailer: the dragon is casting shadows on the ground, the Fade breach open the skies and everyone can see...the Fade breach throwing flaming rocks everywhere!

Baelyn wrote...

Also, keep in mind that whenever the Old
Gods are mentioned, they are said to "have taken dragon form," not
necessarily that they are dragons. They possibly did this
as this is a form they new the early humans would fear and revere. This
would explain why male Old Gods could take the form of female High
Dragons. (And just for reference, there is one female Old God as
well).

The pre-Old Gods humans humans were already dragon worshippers: they believed their heroes reincarnated into dragons. It's not hard to see that they would give a dragon form to their "new" gods.

[Alex109222]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

Alex109222 wrote...
I'd rather the OGB not be canon and be entirely dictated by your choices. "He" could even be the inquisitor, (even though you can choose a gender).
I just don't want OGB to be cannon because it'll completely ruin my entire playthrough because I never made the choice, so I expect it to stay that way.

Bioware could find a way around The Warden not choosing the Dark Ritual, I'm sure, if they really wanted to. I'm not saying it would be fair to the people who didn't choose to have the OGB, but it's not like they haven't ignored player choice before.

Saying that the Inquisitor will "rise" is similar to Hawke's "Rise to Power." It sets high expectations for the protagonist. I hope they don't go down that road again. Too risky.

They could but it would suck hard. They've said they won't make it canon so I guess i'll go with their word. 

[Baelyn]

They said they won't make the Warden and or company (Alistar/Loghain) having an OGB be cannon. Not that an OGB of some sort won't exist.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Chagrinned Goat wrote...

Eleni Zinovia is the talking statue from the mage origin and Witch Hunt.

Oh, I remember her from the mage origin, but I've never played Witch Hunt. What did she say?

Baelyn wrote...

**Minor spoilers if you haven't read the graphic novels.**

Keep
in mind, we have no concrete proof that the tale that Morrigan spun us
about Flemeth using her for her body is true, actually we have 2
different people refuting it, Yvanna from the comics (Morrigan's sister)
and Flemeth herself.

It is totally likely that Morrigan made this up to get our Warden to kill Flemeth.

.

Why would she lie to get the Warden to kill Flemeth? She said she bared the woman no ill will, and only showed hostility and wished for her death after she read the grimoire. And even if she reads Flemeth's grimoire and sends you to kill her, she still wants to do the Dark Ritual because that was what Flemeth wanted. So why would she still want that after she knew what Flemeth's plans were? Why would she want Flemeth dead if Flemeth didn't want to steal her  body? If she was lying, what was really in the grimoire to make her want Flemeth dead? It's confusing.

[Baelyn]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

Why would she lie to get the Warden to kill Flemeth?

Because thats what they do. They manipulate and decieve. Yvanna tells us this much. Morrigan obviously doesn't want to show the Warden all her cards so this lie would be the easiest way to manipulate her/him to kill Flemeth. Especially since this was already a common folk tale among people, "the witch of the wilds" that used her daughters to stay immortally young." 

"The best lies contain some truth."

She said she bared the woman no ill will, and only showed hostility and wished for her death after she read the grimoire.

We don't know what was in the Grimoire. Just because she changed her mind about Flemeth after reading the grimoire doesn't mean what she said it contained is true.

And even if she reads Flemeth's grimoire and sends you to kill her, she still wants to do the Dark Ritual because that was what Flemeth wanted. So why would she still want that after she knew what Flemeth's plans were?

Simple. She may have wanted to take over Flemeth's plan. Just because it was Flemeth's idea (the Dark Ritual), doesn't mean it was a bad idea.

Why would she want Flemeth dead if Flemeth didn't want to steal her  body?

See above. So she could take over Flemeth's plan.

If she was lying, what was really in the grimoire to make her want Flemeth dead? 

Very good question. I suspect it contained the Dark Ritual and whatever Morrigan has been doing with the child in the Eluvian for the past 10 years. We will just have to wait and see.

Modifié par Baelyn, 03 juillet 2013 - 09:14 .

[Baelyn]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...
Oh, I remember her from the mage origin, but I've never played Witch Hunt. What did she say?

Oh and she said this:

"The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..."

Here is a link to a forum post from a while back with comments from Mike Laidlaw: 

http://social.biowar.../4886196/1&lf=8

There is obviously something to what she says.

Modifié par Baelyn, 03 juillet 2013 - 09:18 .

[Zetheria Tabris]

Baelyn wrote...

Because thats what they do. They manipulate and decieve. Yvanna tells us this much. Morrigan obviously doesn't want to show the Warden all her cards so this lie would be the easiest way to manipulate her/him to kill Flemeth. Especially since this was already a common folk tale among people, "the witch of the wilds" that used her daughters to stay immortally young." 

"The best lies contain some truth."

Okay. But I wonder. Morrigan said she remembers a time when Flemeth looked just as young as her. She could have been lying there too, but it seems that there has to be some way Flemeth retains her youth over and over again. If she didn't want to steal Morrigan's body, then she's doing something else to rejuvenate herself. And I kept help but feel that maybe Yvanna's doing a little lying too. What's the point of calling out Morrigan's lie, and how do we know she's not lying? I know Flemeth tells the Warden that he's "dancing to [Morrigan's] tune", but that could be interpreted as saying the Warden's doing Morrigan's dirty work for her. Or maybe I just don't want to believe Morrigan lied. I have a soft spot for her.

Simple. She may have wanted to take over Flemeth's plan. Just because it was Flemeth's idea (the Dark Ritual), doesn't mean it was a bad idea.

I don't really see how it would have been Flemeth's plan. She sent Morrigan with the Wardens so she could become close to one of them and carry one of their children. Her body is too old for her to be pregnant. I know she has magic that could possibly help her become pregnant, but still. It wasn't like she wanted to do it for herself, and Morrigan killed her so she could be the one carrying the child, not Flemeth. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Very good question. I suspect it contained the Dark Ritual and whatever Morrigan has been doing with the child in the Eluvian for the past 10 years. We will just have to wait and see.

That's another reason why I think the dragon is the OGB. The Eluvian is a portal to another world, and when the sky opens, it looks like a portal to either the Fade or another world/dimension. The child could have been kept in the Eluvian world to gain power, then came back to Thedas from that portal.

[Baelyn]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

*snip*

I don't really see how it would have been Flemeth's plan. She sent Morrigan with the Wardens so she could become close to one of them and carry one of their children. Her body is too old for her to be pregnant. I know she has magic that could possibly help her become pregnant, but still. It wasn't like she wanted to do it for herself, and Morrigan killed her so she could be the one carrying the child, not Flemeth. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, what I meant by that was, it was Flemeth's plan to send Morrigan with the Warden, do the Dark Ritual, then get rid of Morrigan once the child was born and take it for her own. If this is what Morrigan found out in the Grimoire, then it is entirely possible that she play on the legend (of Flemeth and her daughters) to get the Warden to take out Flemeth because she wasn't ready to spring the Dark Ritual on the Warden yet.

Also don't get me wrong, I LOVE Morrigan, I'm not trying to paint her as evil, however I don't assume she has been totally honest with us even for a second.

Also, concerning Yvanna, its not that she has reason to call Morrigan out on her lie, its that she has no reason not to.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Baelyn wrote...

Well, what I meant by that was, it was Flemeth's plan to send Morrigan with the Warden, do the Dark Ritual, then get rid of Morrigan once the child was born and take it for her own. If this is what Morrigan found out in the Grimoire, then it is entirely possible that she play on the legend (of Flemeth and her daughters) to get the Warden to take out Flemeth because she wasn't ready to spring the Dark Ritual on the Warden yet.

And that's why I just can't understand why it wasn't canon in the first place. It's such a great plotline, and it would fit well with the "change" Morrigan and Flemeth speak of. It'd be pretty badass to see, actually.

[BlueMagitek]

That would be difficult, as the Archdemon's soul was destroyed and the Murderknife implanted inside Morrigan's body. :/

[Zetheria Tabris]

Bioware could retcon it if they wanted. And there's no proof that Morrigan was killed in Witch Hunt. She could have just been injured.

[BlueMagitek]

Oh, I'm certain she survived. I'm just pointing out that alternatives to the OGB scenario exist.

[Paul E Dangerously]

That's my problem with carryover player choice and major plot elements in general.

You either have to nerf it (Warden wanders off and isn't seen again, even if you're King/Queen of Ferelden), the carryover botches (Character X back from the dead), or they shove in some Roughly Similar Character to cover up for someone you killed (as seen in the ME series).

Having real branching plots from decisions two games ago will be a lot of work that I don't think most studios will be up for, and I think a lot of people may be disappointed by the OGB thing.

[Zetheria Tabris]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Oh, I'm certain she survived. I'm just pointing out that alternatives to the OGB scenario exist.

Morocco Mole wrote...

This is one of those choices you can't be railroaded without the writers looking like utter tools in the process.

I can't help but wonder...the Architect was looking for sleeping Old Gods, right? If the Dark Ritual wasn't done with The Warden or Alistair/Loghain, maybe Morrigan could have found another Old God, one who's soul wasn't destroyed, and get her OGB that way. It would be pretty dickish of the writers to retcon it, I agree, but I think if they did, they could write an acceptable explaination.

[BlueMagitek]

Yes, he was. And even if you killed him, there are potential disciples of his still around. Which is most annoying.