121 réponses à ce sujet

[lil yonce]

Xilizhra wrote...
You assume a significant number of Aequitarians would want to.

Yeah. They weren't exactly on the Libertarian bandwagon at the conclave. If the Libertarians start pushing for things they don't want to do-- use blood magic and demonic consort, and once they find out the Libertarian role in instigating this war, and once reality sets in on the human price to be paid in sustaining it, there will be Aequitarians who jump ship.

[Xilizhra]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
You assume a significant number of Aequitarians would want to.

Yeah. They weren't exactly on the Libertarian bandwagon at the conclave. If the Libertarians start pushing for things they don't want to do-- use blood magic and demonic consort, and once they find out the Libertarian role in instigating this war, and once reality sets in on the human price to be paid in sustaining it, there will be Aequitarians who jump ship.

You assume that A. they'd learn anything and come to the wrong conclusions, B. that they'd care, C. that the Libertarians would go full demonologist, and D. that the mages have a significant disadvantage in the war. I suspect this is largely just your fevered fantasies.

[lil yonce]

Beerfish wrote...
Yeah the fools, they somehow thought he would follow along in his moms footsteps.  Now they're screwed.

Yeah, that's a good point. He may have been appointed because they thought he would take his mother's stance and was supposedly a moderate Libertarian. I wouldn't have went for it. Really, were there no Aequitarains (this is no small group) cabable of leading their own frat? You appoint an outsider? And a Libertarian knowing just how political and controversial such a decision can be? Rhys doesn't even have a firm opinion on the subject! Somebody has to jump up and say, "Hold up. Nah, we ain't feeling this. We out."

[Xilizhra]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
Yeah the fools, they somehow thought he would follow along in his moms footsteps.  Now they're screwed.

Yeah, that's a good point. He may have been appointed because they thought he would take his mother's stance and was supposedly a moderate Libertarian. I wouldn't have went for it. Really, were there no Aequitarains (this is no small group) cabable of leading their own frat? You appoint an outsider? And a Libertarian knowing just how political and controversial such a decision can be? Rhys doesn't even have a firm opinion on the subject! Somebody has to jump up and say, "Hold up. Nah, we ain't feeling this. We out."

Has anyone ever considered that maybe the Aequitarians aren't morons and appointed Rhys knowing his political position? Especially given his fairly obvious differences with his mother? I see no reason to think why they wouldn't want this.

[lil yonce]

Xilizhra wrote...
You assume that A. they'd learn anything and come to the wrong conclusions, B. that they'd care, C. that the Libertarians would go full demonologist, and D. that the mages have a significant disadvantage in the war. I suspect this is largely just your fevered fantasies.

A. Wrong conclusion to you. Right conclusion to many not apart of the Libertarian lunatic fringe. This war was instigated by Libertarians. That is a fact. B. And why do assume they wouldn't care at all? Of course they would. They have issues with the Libertarians calling shots at the conclave. They don't want to be forced into anything and they don't want to be under a Libertarian thumb. They are not an extenstion of the Libertarians. A large group with a subscription to a vague moral code-- They should have opinions out the wazoo on how to do things. There should be some that want to stay aligned with the Loyalists. Some that want to try the Libertarians. Some that say agree with Lucrosians and Isolationsits. They have no united goal or plan as a group. C. And yeah, I don't put anything past the Libertarians. They'll justify summoning an archdemon if it suits them. D. Fiona even says most of them will die. "But surely some will live." Some. If you're a mage at Andoral's Reach, your chances of survial are low.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 05 juillet 2013 - 10:42 .

[Sir JK]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Disagree completely. She ran off to save Rhys from Lambert. She destroyed the phylacteries to save the Enchanters from what she believed Lambert would do to them-- this particularly low opinion brought on by Pharamond's murder. She doesn't even think he did it initially-- Evangeline coaxes her into that opinion. The wool has been pulled over everyone's eyes by Adrian at this point. If Wynne were still alive and found out what really went down in the White Spire, I do not at all believe she would support the Libertarians. They're fanatics who will screw everyone else over to get what they want. And when she on a tear, her attitude was nothing along the lines of "**** the Divine." Her entire bent in the DA universe has been avoiding confrontation to save lives. Voting for rebellion goes against that completely. I think she would say no and do everything she could to get a compromise in the works with the Chantry.

Well... noone except Adrian and Rhys knows what happened with Pharamond and Rhys seemed to keep it that way. He did not even tell Evangeline about it. And conflict had already started,so preventing conflict was no longer an option. Everything she feared had already come to pass. There was no way the templars were going to accept neither peaceful reform nor status quo at that point.

I agree with your analysis there, but everything Wynne feared had already happened. The damage was done. It was either complete submission or fighting that was at stake.

I think that is way too late to start working on compromise. Most of the mages will be dead by this time. The mages who don't want any part of this Libertarian revolt should stand up before the templars show up on their doorstep. The Aequitarian fraternity should split up and a new vote should be called.

At this point, whether you want to fight or not is moot. War is upon people regardless of what they feel. What matters is how it ends. The Aequitarians may not be as fully supporting the conflict as the Libertarians are, but Lambert actually did break his end of the contract in their eyes. If they cannot trust Templars to uphold their end of the bargain, how could the system ever work?

A Lucrosian leader is my ideal reformer.

I'd be interested in hearing more from them ingame as well.

[LobselVith8]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Yes, share. I would not follow any leader without a plan, and I have yet to hear a plan from Libertarian supporters.

Well, I was thinking my ethnically Antivan Hawke (and Merrill, who was romantically involved with my Champion) would eventually seperate from the others and focus on establishing a mage rebellion, since Anders does continually encourage my apostate to become a leader to the mages, to the point of saying at the Gallows: "You truly are the leader our people have waited centuries for".

The ultimate goal would be mage autonomy - gaining it, and maintaining it. As for their methods, I was thinking they could try similar tactics to the 26th of July Movement at first, since I imagine they would be starting off with small, especially in comparison to the Seekers of Truth and the Order of Templars they would oppose. I think mages, and perhaps even some Dalish elves (especially once word spreads about a specific Dalish mage who took on the templars at the seat of templar power over eastern Thedas), might start becoming part of their opposition to the Chantry controlled Circles with some victories against the enemy.

There are a plethora of actions I think a mage rebellion should pursue. Defeating templar regiments, healing the sick and injuried through magic, manifestos that oppose the corruption and tyranny of the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars, educating people.

Writing this during lunch, so please excuse the brevity. I'll see about writing more on the issue tomorrow since I have a date tonight. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask and I'll try to address them to the best of my abilities.

[lil yonce]

Sir JK wrote...
Well... noone except Adrian and Rhys knows what happened with Pharamond and Rhys seemed to keep it that way. He did not even tell Evangeline about it.

I said if she were still alive and found out about what happend. Rhys would owe her that explantion, I think. If he kept that to himself knowing it would affect her vote, he's just a dirty as Adrian.

And conflict had already started,so preventing conflict was no longer an option.

It hasn't started yet. Two years have passed and no battle has occured. The templars are just now organizing. Compromise is still on the table to me.

Everything she feared had already come to pass. There was no way the templars were going to accept neither peaceful reform nor status quo at that point.

And just like not all mages agree with decision, I don't think all templars agree with it. We've seen they aren't all the same. And two years to organize? What took so long? Dissenting opinions perhaps.

I agree with your analysis there, but everything Wynne feared had already happened. The damage was done. It was either complete submission or fighting that was at stake.

There has been no battle so the damage has yet to be done IMO. Those who want out can be saved in the 11th hour.

At this point, whether you want to fight or not is moot. War is upon people regardless of what they feel.

I disagree. It hasn't happend yet, it will be a siege attempt by the templars which makes the chances of wating the mages out even better, and if they feel strongly enough, the people on both sides can work on saving their skin. 

What matters is how it ends. The Aequitarians may not be as fully supporting the conflict as the Libertarians are, but Lambert actually did break his end of the contract in their eyes. If they cannot trust Templars to uphold their end of the bargain, how could the system ever work?

Lambert is not every templar. And he's probably dead. Without him the templars are without their unifying force in this war.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 05 juillet 2013 - 06:31 .

[Beerfish]

[quote]Youth4Ever wrote...


Well... noone except Adrian and Rhys knows what happened with Pharamond and Rhys seemed to keep it that way. He did not even tell Evangeline about it.[/quote]I said if she were still alive and found out about what happend. Rhys would owe her that explantion, I think. If he kept that to himself knowing it would affect her vote, he's just a dirty as Adrian.


[/quote]

Do you really think a guy that never told anyone about anything through the whole story to suit his own selfish purposes would tell his mom, whom he acted like a spoiled brat with for most of his life would spill the beans to her?

No only after the point of no return would he probably giggle and tell a lame joke about 'I guess I should have said something.'  Rhys feels he owes no one anything during the whole story.

[lil yonce]

@Beerfish; I didn't write what you quoted. Sir JK did. I think its just a formatting issue, but I'll point that out to limit confusion. And I dislike Rhys, but I hope he'd be half decent in that regard.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 05 juillet 2013 - 05:59 .

[Beerfish]

Youth4Ever wrote...

@Beerfish; I didn't write what you quoted. Sir JK did. I think its just a formatting issue, but I'll point that out to limit confusion. And I dislike Rhys, but I hope he'd be half decent in that regard.

Yes I know, I just screwed up on the multi quote fiddling.  I really do 100% believe he would have said nothing at all until it served his purpose, just like he had done through the whole book.  The guy made assumption after assumtpion through the whole book was proved wrong on almost all of them and did nothing at many points in the book to make things better for his friends, the mages or anyone but himself.

[Pride Demon]

Still hoping we'll get a mage representative from one of the "minor" fraternities, the Isolationists and Lucrosians...

I'll be honest though, following this thread is starting to give me a bit of a headache, I just had this moment of "damn it all, where's the Blight when you need it"...
You know you hit rock bottom when you start rooting for the Darkspawn...

[Rawgrim]

That hermit from DA:O would do.

[Pride Demon]

Rawgrim wrote...

That hermit from DA:O would do.

If we end up meeting him near a bridge and he starts demanding we answer three questions in exchange for crossing it, my character better have the option to say "Sod it all, I'm leaving!"

[lil yonce]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The ultimate goal would be mage autonomy - gaining it, and maintaining it. As for their methods, I was thinking they could try similar tactics to the 26th of July Movement at first, since I imagine they would be starting off with small, especially in comparison to the Seekers of Truth and the Order of Templars they would oppose. I think mages, and perhaps even some Dalish elves (especially once word spreads about a specific Dalish mage who took on the templars at the seat of templar power over eastern Thedas), might start becoming part of their opposition to the Chantry controlled Circles with some victories against the enemy. There are a plethora of actions I think a mage rebellion should pursue. Defeating templar regiments, healing the sick and injuried through magic, manifestos that oppose the corruption and tyranny of the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars, educating people.

I see some ideas, but I'm not sure I see a plan.

From a very brief line in Asunder, the Dalish could be on the verge of conflict with Orlais, so, I see a potential problem there. And the majority of Circle mages are human and not elven, and it was human mages that enslaved their people and destroyed their first homeland. Why wouldn't they look at the conflict and decide to let the mages and templars kill each other while they take care of Orlais and have all of their potential enemies eliminated at once?

Also, the mages are at holed up at Andoral's Reach, so the battle with the templars from what I understand is going to take place there. I do not at all see this as a long drawn out war with multiple battles and supplies lines etc. One battle to end them all, and its either going to be a siege attempt by the templars or a wild escape attempt by the mages cornered there. A siege will be risky and bloody, so the templars will sit on their doorstep and wait them out-- attempt to break them down with psychologically and make forget about a battle. Same goes for the mages-- an escape attempt will be risky and bloody, and I'm certain some will realize this and weigh their options. This is why, in my mind, a compromise is still on the table and can work. In the end noone wants to throw their lives away and that is all this battle is going to be about. The Divine's Seekers and Templars are the conduit of compromise-- they need people on both sides to be willing to work on a deal for a reformed Circle. It can absolutely happen because its what is best for both sides at this point.

Say your plan works out. What is the next move? Where will the mages go, how will they start a new Circle, with what money, how will they do intensive research on the fade and on the Veil and on all of these topics with the when they have no supply of lyrim, how will they handle public opinion which will likely be extremely negative after defeating a force dedicated to defending against them, how will they get countries to help them rather than leave them twisting in the wind because they have reason fear them now more than ever (especially if they've turned to blood magic and demons to beat the templars).

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 06 juillet 2013 - 08:53 .

[lil yonce]

Yes! There is a Pro-Circle mage companion!

Vivienne! She sounds and looks great so far. Altruistic but aggressive in pursuit of her goal. Pro-Circle but firmly against anti-mage sentiment. She could be my ideal Circle reformer. Forget First Enchanter-- Vivienne for Grand Enchanter!

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 08 août 2013 - 07:05 .

[cjones91]

Youth4Ever wrote...



Yes! There is a Pro-Circle mage companion!

And it looks like it will be Vivienne! She sounds and looks great so far. Altruistic but aggressive in pursuit of her goal. Pro-Circle but firmly against anti-mage sentiment. She could be my ideal Circle reformer. Forget First Enchanter-- Vivienne for Grand Enchanter!

Lol,I like that AJ Lee gif.I agree it's going to be interesting to see Vienne and how she responds to certain things you do in the game.

[Trikormadenadon]

I don't really care as long as it is not someone that has only appeared in the books. Tired of Bioware adding book characters to the games and assuming the players will know who the person is. Kai Leng was the perfect example of what not to do.

[lil yonce]

I've only read Asunder all the way through, but I don't think she's been in the books. I hope we encounter her early in the game.

[Tarek]

oh i know a male healer that is holier than though but then u ravage him in the tent/castle , should be interesting

he should be annoying (a little) and we should have arguments and he should be hard to romance and maybe we can break his "holy" bubble and make him love our character!


bah i leave it to bioware im not that clever

[Angrywolves]

So Viv has her own thread.

[Todd23]

I couldn't kick arrogant and self-righteous Wynne out of my party fast enough. It's the similarities between Vivienne and her that make me not interested in our new companion.