660 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

I've honestly never did anything to make her turn on her in any of my games but there is a presedence for dead people coming back to life. Like Wynn who was dying or dead and now living on borrowed time. So there is no reason that Leliana couldn't have done the same thing

[jtav]

Because it negates a player choice, albeit one I've never made.

[RepHope]

Because they disliked her personally or because people feel it invalidates their choices

[dorianpervus]

Wynne is possessed by a spirit and that's why she kind of gets a pass. I don't recall Leliana ever having any magical power to resurrect herself. The choice to bring her back goes against the players choice and considering it's a game where we supposedly "effect the world around us" our choices shouldn't be overlooked.

That's what I've gathered anyway.

[Iakus]

I dunno.

In-game, it permanently removes her from the party and you don't have to deal with her for the rest of the game.

So, she's alive anyway? There's supposedly there's a reason for it going on behind the scenes. The chocie was still flagged and recorded. We'll just have to see if it amounts to more.

Kinda like doing the Dark Ritual. Did not seeing the OGB negate that choice? in the end, we'll just have to see.

[Ollys]

People fear that zombie will eat they brains.

[Catroi]

It also contradicts some player belief that the Maker doesnt exist

[Wulfram]

If she was actually resurrected, rather than it being handwaved that she was just pining for the Fjords or something, that would seem like it should be a very big deal.

But it's something that only happened in a very small proportion of games, so it can't be a big deal.

Modifié par Wulfram, 03 juillet 2013 - 07:41 .

[Mykel54]

It sets a very bad precedent of ignoring player choices. I saved the anvil of the void, i had Shale with me, and i killed her. So what if she turns up in DAI? Then she says something like "Well when Branka wasn´t looking i took the chance and run, then used my stone sense to get out of the deep roads, and here i am". I hate anything that invalidates player´s choice, and this is just one example of how bioware could annoy players simply because they made "impopular" choices.

Bioware writers seem to have learned the lesson after DA2, but they should have had more foresight back in DAO, and only allow the player to kill characters which they do not plan to use in the future for major plot events. So if Leliana died, then it means she needs to be a secondary character in the future or bioware needs to find a replacement character (like the Wrex replacement in ME3) for her.

So it is: Leliana has some important role to play that only she can do, and that no other character replacement could do, or it wouldn´t be wort the cost in money for the substitute.

[Xilizhra]

scyphozoa wrote...

jtav wrote...

Because it negates a player choice, albeit one I've never made.

Exactly this. I am never going to kill Leliana, she is one of my favorite characters. But any character who dies, either directly by the choice of the player, or as a result of a player's choice, that (all)aspect of the player's choice has to be accurately upheld. Now, David Gaider has said they will directly address this in the future, so it is not being retconned or ignored, but it will be explained within the lore.

Still, my feeling is that any time the devs choose to contradict a player's choice, they are undermining the entire choice making feature of the games they make and advertise. They have the entire game as their product to create and craft and shape. The devs have their hands on all the levers of power, so when they specifically designate a choice for the player to make, that has to be sacred. The devs get to exert their influence over the entirety of the game, players only get to exert the influence that developers give them. So if developers undermine that player influence too, then it trivializes the entire feature of making choices.

To be fair, the Leliana situation seems sort of like the Rachni Queen scenario in ME3. They didn't want to give up that plot point if people killed a necessary character, so they just shoe-horn in a clone, or a resurrected version to keep it within the lore. 

The moral: don't give options to kill important NPCs, especially companions. You might need them later.

[Nole]

Because killing Lealiana doesn't make any sense anyways. I mean, if you don't like the character, just don't recruit her.

[Fiery Phoenix]

jtav wrote...

Because it negates a player choice, albeit one I've never made.

While true, the fact of the matter remains that, if Leliana's importance to DA:I's story is central, the choice will have to be negated. It all depends on how plot-integral she is this time around. Given the game takes place in an Orlesian world, I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be the case.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 03 juillet 2013 - 07:52 .

[Hazegurl]

Leliana will attack you if you taint the ashes so killing her doesn't even have to be about not liking her. I killed her off in one playthrough cause I took her with me and had no idea she was going to attack. I killed her and looted her body. Knowing that she is alive in everyone's playthroughs regardless of player choice is stupid. Honestly, I think they just forgot she could be killed and now they have to throw in a reason why they were so careless.

[TexasToast712]

 Because atheists hate the idea of there being a higher power in a fictional world with the ability to resurrect. Thats my guess anyway.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 03 juillet 2013 - 07:58 .

[TexasToast712]

Morocco Mole wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

 Because atheists hate the idea of there being a higher power in a video game with the ability to resurrect. Thats my guess anyway.

 I do however draw the line at ressurecting dead characters. 

I only see it making sense if she dies near the ashes. Bioware could say we didnt completely kill her. I dont know how they want to handle it but it wont effect me. I never killed Leliana.

[Secretlyapotato]

Because it's possible for her to be decapitated when you're killing her, lol

[TsaiMeLemoni]

This thread makes me want to start another playthrough just so I can kill Leilana. I will withhold my nerd rage until we get info on what the frak is up with a resurrected Leilana.

[Twisted Path]

The worst thing about Leiliana's resurrection is that to avoid a situation like that happening again they made a bunch of the companions in DA2 unkillable (which is a minor thing I guess but I miss the option,) and made none of your choices matter in DA2 (which is a major thing.) It seems like they really overreacted to the possibility of save imports creating continuity problems in the future.

Edit: I think there's a much better way to solve this problem than eliminating choice: resist the urge to reuse characters and just have a new cast for each game.

Modifié par Twisted Path, 03 juillet 2013 - 08:15 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

Bah, as much as I love player choice it's situations like these that sometimes make me wish it wasn't there.
I'll admit it's partly something that I blame SWTOR for - there are a lot of great NPCs, that tons of people on the forums would love to see again, but it will never happen.
Why? Because there is an option to kill them.

[Azaron Nightblade]

Twisted Path wrote...


Edit: I think there's a much better way to solve this problem than eliminating choice: resist the urge to reuse characters and just have a new cast for each game.

Pretty much that.
I'm personally glad that Leliana didn't get the SWTOR treatment of being dead by default because some could kill her - but going with an entirely new cast would solve a lot of headaches for them, including the romances.