660 réponses à ce sujet

[Boycott Bioware]

How someone SURVIVE when head chopped off?

[Xilizhra]

Qistina wrote...

How someone SURVIVE when head chopped off?

Suspicion: her head was never canonically chopped off, it's just a random death animation.

[Ziggeh]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Short of that, I see no, absolutely no way how Leliana could survive that doesn't include her corpse spontanously deciding that death is boring and making the most marvelous revitalization spa visit in all of Thedas.

Didn't Wynne die once already?

I'm not saying Leilana is rocking a Faith Spirit or anything (though that wouldn't be all that unreasonable given her sudden position in the church, it would be getting a bit spirit-posession heavy), just that "The Maker did it" is by no means the only way an actual resurrection could have happened.

[Boycott Bioware]

Xilizhra wrote...
Suspicion: her head was never canonically chopped off, it's just a random death animation.

We always hear about cinematic, but now it is not cinematic anymore

[Ziggeh]

Senior Cinco wrote...

The main issue is that when you decapitate someone it's hard to imagine them returning. If you defile the ashes she turns on the player. It's not like you inadvertently just killed her on a whim.

It was pitched before DA2 that what you did in the DA series, so far, would have merit and reflect so in the gameworld of DA2. Instead we got meaningless cameos and retconned fallen characters.

It doesn't help matters when a lead writer gets a wild hair and responds with "If we bring someone back, it's because we wanted to."

Translation : "Your input and gameplay means squat."

That is the precedence of the outlash of reviving fallen characters from previous releases.

You chose the action, not the outcome.

She acknowledges the event, your input had an effect, and I assume will continue to if she returns. It was just not the one you thought it would be. 

[Azaron Nightblade]

Qistina wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Suspicion: her head was never canonically chopped off, it's just a random death animation.

We always hear about cinematic, but now it is not cinematic anymore

IQ points = lost. 

[Ziggeh]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
As I have stated acouple times now:

THERE IS NO RESURRECTION IN THE DA LORE!

Period.

Read up the ingame codex "The cardinals of magic". 

Infusing a dude with lyrium couldn't make his hands phase through armour until it could. You're talking about the rules of a fictional force, one that exists to service a story. Not having appeared before is really not evidence that it doesn't exist. 

We already know the codex is fallible, we already know that we'll excounter exceptional circumstances. 

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Bringing back from the precipice of death, possible. Bringing back someone that's most definately rotting away for hours, days, whatever, not possible.

You're certain she was rotting away for hours?

[Wulfram]

Ziggeh wrote...

You chose the action, not the outcome.

She acknowledges the event, your input had an effect, and I assume will continue to if she returns. It was just not the one you thought it would be. 

The outcome was established in DA:O.  She was dead.  An ex-Leliana.

[Ziggeh]

Qistina wrote...

We always hear about cinematic, but now it is not cinematic anymore

You're right. The events of the previous game should adhere to the description of the visual style of games that follow it.

[Dutchess]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

As I have stated acouple times now:

THERE IS NO RESURRECTION IN THE DA LORE!

Period.

Read up the ingame codex "The cardinals of magic". Very powerful magic can bring some back from the precipice of death (very much like some can be clinically dead for a short moment and then be reanimated). Wynne was not dead for hours on end, she fell, then experienced what we could call a near-death-experience and was subsequently rescued from that death by the spirit. But she was never truly dead.

And before someone comes with Evangeline, from what I have been told, it seems to be the same case Evangeline was dead for a small amount of time, then reanimated. A bit more of a stretch because she was presumably longer "dead", but still, not a resurrection.





Bringing back from the precipice of death, possible. Bringing back someone that's most definately rotting away for hours, days, whatever, not possible.

DA2 must hate that codex.  Isn't that the same entry that states that teleportation is impossible? Yet what does every gangsta mage in Kirkwall do? *poof*

[Wulfram]

renjility wrote...

DA2 must hate that codex.  Isn't that the same entry that states that teleportation is impossible? Yet what does every gangsta mage in Kirkwall do? *poof*

They go invisible and run very fast, supposedly.

[nightscrawl]

Wulfram wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

 We're not saying that Leliana was never killed, just that she survived.

Um, you realise that's a totally nonsensical sentence, right?

He basically means that they aren't denying that you actually did something or saw something, but that there also might be something that you didn't do or didn't see that enabled her to be seen again. Her being killed involves action by you, the player. Her surviving does not.

I didn't think it was nonsensical when I read it initially, but that is my best explanation of the sentence.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 05 juillet 2013 - 12:30 .

[Ziggeh]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

If you had deigned to read the thread before commenting, you'd have found all the answers you ask me.

Come back later if you did, then we can have a productive argument.

With the exception of you saying that you'd prefer to believe the codex you know is fallible, none of that's been discussed.

Wulfram wrote...

The outcome was established in DA:O.  She was dead.  An ex-Leliana.

You're told she's dead. Which isn't the same thing.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 05 juillet 2013 - 12:29 .

[Pedrak]

Because it negates a player choice, albeit one I've never made.

 I think there's a much better way to solve this problem than eliminating choice: resist the urge to reuse characters and just have a new cast for each game.

This and this.

[Dutchess]

Wulfram wrote...

renjility wrote...

DA2 must hate that codex.  Isn't that the same entry that states that teleportation is impossible? Yet what does every gangsta mage in Kirkwall do? *poof*

They go invisible and run very fast, supposedly.

Yes, yes, I've heard of that excuse. About as convincing as "the Maker knew it was not my time".  It still seems like a waste to include a codex that claims that certain things aren't possible, while the game goes on to show things that appear to be exactly those impossible events.

[Ziggeh]

renjility wrote...
Yes, yes, I've heard of that excuse. About as convincing as "the Maker knew it was not my time".  It still seems like a waste to include a codex that claims that certain things aren't possible, while the game goes on to show things that appear to be exactly those impossible events.

It establishes them as exceptional. If people were popping out of the grave on a regular basis it wouldn't be a dramatic event. 

[Dutchess]

Ziggeh wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The outcome was established in DA:O.  She was dead.  An ex-Leliana.

You're told she's dead. Which isn't the same thing.

DAO told me that the archdemon was dead as well. I guess I should be worried.

Ziggeh wrote...

renjility wrote...
Yes, yes, I've heard of that excuse. About as convincing as "the Maker knew it was not my time".  It still seems like a waste to include a codex that claims that certain things aren't possible, while the game goes on to show things that appear to be exactly those impossible events.

It establishes them as exceptional. If people were popping out of the grave on a regular basis it wouldn't be a dramatic event. 

So every teleporting mage in Kirkwall is exceptional as well? 

[Wulfram]

Ziggeh wrote...

You're told she's dead. Which isn't the same thing.

Oh, that's just rubbish.

We're told she's dead, we're shown she's dead.  We see her body.  Her death is as firmly established as fact as any other in the entire game.

[Senior Cinco]

Ziggeh wrote...
You chose the action, not the outcome.

She acknowledges the event, your input had an effect, and I assume will continue to if she returns. It was just not the one you thought it would be.

No matter how one wishes to see the trail of events, you cut her head off. What is to be expected from that?

The answer should be clear.No amount of ashes will bring you back from that.

The series is being promoted as "What you do will carry over and have world changing effects." That is clearly a farce.

[Ziggeh]

renjility wrote...

DAO told me that the archdemon was dead as well. I guess I should be worried.

Given there's an ingame plot that establishes that they'll revisit the persistence of his soul at some point, yeah, I would be.

But in general I would say that the story of the death of a hulking beast they had to carve up and drag off a roof is probably a bit more accurate than the assertion that some guys killed some lady and left the body in a cave no ones going to check on.

Ziggeh wrote...

So every teleporting mage in Kirkwall is exceptional as well? 

I don't really remember that,  but surely that sort of speaks to the fallibility of the codex? (and/or the impact of gamplay concessions impact upon the narrative)

Modifié par Ziggeh, 05 juillet 2013 - 12:55 .

[Ziggeh]

Wulfram wrote...

Oh, that's just rubbish.

We're told she's dead, we're shown she's dead.  We see her body.  Her death is as firmly established as fact as any other in the entire game.

Did you check her pulse? People are falling over in the combat all the time, and then they get up.

I'm totally applying a double standard there, but yes, I don't entirely disagree. I just don't think many things are established to a high degree of accuracy. Especially in DA2.

[Ziggeh]

Senior Cinco wrote...

No matter how one wishes to see the trail of events, you cut her head off. What is to be expected from that?

Same as from Zevran when he joins your party shotrly after you remove his? Same as Templars not noticing the mage raining fire and blood magic down around them in combat?

Senior Cinco wrote...
The series is being promoted as "What you do will carry over and have world changing effects." That is clearly a farce.

Do you expect all of them to change the world dramatically? That's asking a bit much.