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Silent Protangonist vs Voiced Protagonist


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#176
Gotholhorakh

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bEVEsthda wrote...

[there's nothing wrong with games of that kind (except of course that I consider life too short to waste on such). And if Bioware wants to, and think they can be, rich on making games like that, then so be it.

But when people claim it's the future of cRPGs, that is not something which I and others are prepared to suffer in silence.


Agreed - well said.

There are different types of RPG - there is the Skyrim sort of thing, there is the tactical party-based thing like BG (the future of which may be in the hands of developers that aren't looking for eighty billion console sales, admittedly), there are various others.

I see no reason why the DA>=2 pedigree is going to replace or destroy any of them, even assuming it evolves to a point where lots of RPGers really like and recommend it.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 11 juillet 2013 - 11:54 .


#177
Cyberstrike nTo

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I would rather see a silent protagnatist in a voiced world if the PC is mute due to injury, born that way, part of a ritual (like the Silent Sisters of Orzamar) and that is part of the PC's backstory, motvation, and part of the overall story of the game. The downside with this is how the character commucates with others (telepathy, carrying a chalk and a chalkboard, pen and paper). For example the Silent Sisters have assisants that helps them and could be their "voice". I don't know if this would work or not. 

#178
DAN8808

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I don't miss the communication system from DA:O at all, I didn't connect with the protagonist at all. They're simply a medium through which you experience the Dragon Age world. I connected with the companions far more than the Warden. Hawke was a step in the right direction for protagonist development but I didn't feel much of a connection with the companions other than Varric and having the hots for Isabela. I think Dragon Age should have started just like Mass Effect, a voiced character all the way through the Trilogy who's relationships wasn't measured in visual numbers.

In ME3 I was blown away by how emotional I was when I lost a companion or the look on Shepard's face when he/she left Earth in the Normandy. I couldn't give a crap about how DA Commander behaved, but ME Commander was a completely different and every decision I made was one that reflected my unique choices.

#179
Twisted Path

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I really hate the voiced protagonist and think it's making Bioware RPGs more shallow but I will admit the one time it's in a Bioware game was Mass Effect 2.

The voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel fell short in Mass Effect because the paraphrasing was terrible and the wheel always gave you a choice between paragon, neutral or evil responses without exception. It was just pick good, neutral or evil over and over and over with some really misleading paraphrases if you were trying to play a more nuanced character. Then in Mass Effect 3 they stripped most of the roleplaying aspects out altogether and just gave you two (often meaningless,) choices in the few places where the autodialogue stopped. Mass Effect 3 was just terrible.

But in Mass Effect 2 I did always feel like Commander Shepard was my own character and I was moving around and shaping things personally. I think a big part of it was that the middle option on the dialogue wheel wasn't just neutral, it was sort of a wild card that would sometimes be neutral, sometimes paragon and sometimes renegade. Often times the middle option would be paragon or renegade but coming at the moral choice from a completely different angle than the conventional ways.

An example to make this more clear: it's kind of established in Mass Effect that "Renegade" means hating aliens and being a surly anti-hero. Then sometimes the Mass Effect 2 dialogue wheel could mix it up by giving you a space-racist response at the bottom right, but a surly (still renegade,) but not racist response in the middle right. So you didn't have to choose between being a goody-goody boyscout or a space-racist. That combined with actually having well written paraphrases made defining your character without accidently saying something out of character in ME2 a lot easier than it was in ME1.

Another thing that made the system in ME2 work was that it just mixed things up sometimes and would have only two choices on the dialogue wheel with no clue what was paragon or renegade and you just had to go by the paraphrasing. And it worked. Of course ideally we would or could see the full text of what characters are going to say and choose from there, but for some reason that weirds some players and developers out so we're stuck will paraphrases that are hopefully well done.

Doing things the way Mass Effect 2 did still isn't to my liking as much as just having a dialogue tree and a silent protagonist since imagining how the character would say his or her lines adds a dimension that just gets ripped away by a voiced protagonist. For instance there will always be dialogue choices where none of the lines are remotely like what I would say in the given situation. Being able to imagine that the PC at least rolls her eyes or uses a sarcastic tone when she says the least bad line makes those situations more bearable. But with Mass Effect 2 I thought Bioware demonstrated that a voiced protagonist can kind of work. So eh...it can be done.

And yeah I know I'm conflating a voiced protagonist with the dialogue wheel system a bit but they seem to be attached at the hip. What I'm talking about is ways I think you can work within the bounderies of having a dialogue wheel and a voiced protagonist while letting players feel like the voice of the player character is their own.

Modifié par Twisted Path, 12 juillet 2013 - 03:26 .


#180
Renmiri1

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It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.

Get over it

#181
cjones91

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Can't I like both?

#182
Zubie

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Renmiri1 wrote...

It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.

Get over it


Hardly

#183
Magdalena11

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If they must make it voiced I hope they don't completely change the concept of what was intended in DA:I. That really steamed me in DA2.

#184
Zeldrik1389

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It depends on the actual quality of the voice imo. DA 2 Hawke (especially male Hawke) was painfully annoying, to the point that I just want to turn off dialogue  and just read the subtitle. However good voice acting can greatly improve the game. So Imo, either get decent voice actors / actresses for the parts, or just shut the protagonist's mouth, and let player read dialogues with their own desire voice.

Modifié par Zeldrik1389, 12 juillet 2013 - 06:58 .


#185
Renmiri1

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You guys ever heard of the mute button ?

#186
rolson00

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Renmiri1 wrote...

It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.

Get over it




thats a bit presumptuous

#187
Medhia Nox

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This is what independent developers are for gang.

Mainstream is leaving this behind.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 20 juillet 2013 - 08:38 .


#188
PnXMarcin1PL

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Definetly voiced. I didn't like reading what my character is supposed to say. Feels so unnatural. Still Bioware had to preserve space for more content.

#189
aeoncs

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easygame88 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.

Get over it


Hardly

Hardly? Try positively.
The vast, vast, vast (!) majority prefers a voiced protagonist if said protagonist takes centre stage - which will be the case in DA: I. It's not the 90's anymore.

#190
Shevy

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aeoncs wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.

Get over it


Hardly

Hardly? Try positively.
The vast, vast, vast (!) majority prefers a voiced protagonist if said protagonist takes centre stage - which will be the case in DA: I. It's not the 90's anymore.


Proof? Source?

Stop making things up and state them as fact.

#191
Zazzerka

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Neither. I don't want a voiced protagonist, or a non-voiced protagonist.

If BioWare can't give me that, I'm done with them forever.

Modifié par Zazzerka, 23 juillet 2013 - 10:34 .


#192
Fast Jimmy

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Shevy_001 wrote...

aeoncs wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.[/b]

Get over it


Hardly

Hardly? Try positively.
The vast, vast, vast (!) majority prefers a voiced protagonist if said protagonist takes centre stage[/b] - which will be the case in DA: I. It's not the 90's anymore.


Proof? Source?

Stop making things up and state them as fact.


The proof is in sales, Shevy. 

Obviously, the highly cinematic, voiced protagonist RPGs like Bioware's games and JRPGs sell way more than RPGs that offer silent protagonists, like the new Fallouts and Skyrim. I mean, how crazy would THAT world be, if games with silent protagonists did much better sales-wise than the ones with voiced?

It would suggest that the majority of RPG players enjoy the deeper RPG experience that is possible with a silent protagonist, rather than an overly scripted experience with the voiced one. 

But it's a good thing none of that is true... right?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 23 juillet 2013 - 12:43 .


#193
Guest_LindsayLohan_*

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Gotholhorakh wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

[there's nothing wrong with games of that kind (except of course that I consider life too short to waste on such). And if Bioware wants to, and think they can be, rich on making games like that, then so be it.

But when people claim it's the future of cRPGs, that is not something which I and others are prepared to suffer in silence.


Agreed - well said.

There are different types of RPG - there is the Skyrim sort of thing, there is the tactical party-based thing like BG (the future of which may be in the hands of developers that aren't looking for eighty billion console sales, admittedly), there are various others.

I see no reason why the DA>=2 pedigree is going to replace or destroy any of them, even assuming it evolves to a point where lots of RPGers really like and recommend it.



You are a programmer.

#194
cjones91

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aeoncs wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

It is going to be voiced. The majority likes it this way.

Get over it


Hardly

Hardly? Try positively.
The vast, vast, vast (!) majority prefers a voiced protagonist if said protagonist takes centre stage - which will be the case in DA: I. It's not the 90's anymore.

Skyrim and the Fallout series say otherwise.

#195
Zubie

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aeoncs wrote...
Hardly? Try positively.
The vast, vast, vast (!) majority prefers a voiced protagonist if said protagonist takes centre stage - which will be the case in DA: I. It's not the 90's anymore.


Sorry but you're wrong. It's ok.

#196
Lilaeth

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If they choose a voice that I think sounds like mine, fine.  The DA2 voice actress for Hawke sounded nothing like me, and I felt quite remote from the character as a result.  Now, if they'd gone for a Glaswegian voice actess, that would have suited me, but not people with other accents.  Which is why I think it's better to go with mute.

#197
RydeCrash

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If Not Having a voiced protagonist meant DA:I would be on the scale and story depth of DA:O I would sign up for that in a blink of an eye.

Ryde..

#198
Uccio

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I don't like voiced because it is a pre set character which feels less my character. However, if there would be multiple voice options from which to choose from and no pre set character then it would be a different thing.

#199
Marakov7

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Renmiri1 wrote...

You guys ever heard of the mute button ?


Mute button? What a great idea! You are such a problem solver, they should make you a Paragon! Of course, you seem to overlook the fact that maybe people want to hear the other side of the conversation...but who cares about a little detail like that, right? Image IPB

I personally don't really like the idea of a voiced PC, for many of the reasons given by others earlier in the thread so I won't rehash what they said. I'm realistic enough to understand that the PC is going to be voiced no matter what a lot of people wish, it's what Bioware wants to do. I just hope that they do a decent job of it - more accurate summary of what the response will be and a decent voice actor whose voice doesn't grate on my nerves. The male voice will be something I will want to hear before I decide if I'll buy the game.

#200
Ziggeh

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

The proof is in sales, Shevy. 

That would only be true if the only difference between the games were the silence or otherwise of the protagonist. You can only make that statement if there aren't confounding variables. And there are many.