David Gaider wrote...
Firky wrote...
But, did Wynne's spirit ever warp into something? I can't really recall.
The corruption of Faith is Pride. Whether Wynne's spirit was ever corrupted is up to speculation, I suppose.
says the lead writer:whistle:
Cole (Asunder): What kind of... [spoiler!]
Débuté par
Azaron Nightblade
, juil. 04 2013 06:04
#76
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 02:24
kinderschlager
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says the lead writer:whistle:
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 02:25
kinderschlager
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Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Cole is a demon. Cole has to be a demon. Like right from the start. We've already had two spirits. We need a demon. The wiki mentions that the difference between the two might actually be little more than semantics and Justice did show us that their moulds aren't immutable BUT I WANT A DEMON DAMMIT.
i personally want a despair demon as a companion:P
#78
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 02:28
kinderschlager
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just a friendly reminder: if not in a DA game, it doesn't technically exist in cannon. that's a summary of what the DEVs have stated
#79
Guest_KproTM_*
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 03:13
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JakeOfDiamonds wrote...
The way I see it, Cole was approached by a Spirit of Hope. Hope to escape. Hope to survive. Hope to go quick and painlessly. It was with him until he died. Having had to sit and watch, helpless to do anything, the Spirit of Hope was corrupted, and it became one of the new types of Demons that David Gaider said we can look forward to. In this particular case, a Despair Demon.
Why is this awesome?
Because if Hope is at the top of the hierarchy of spirits, then a Despair Demon is going to be incredibly, incredibly powerful too. I'm not sure if it was confirmed anywhere, so I took some creative licensing with where to pair Justice and Compassion. I assume Valor and Sloth go hand in hand because Sloth is always shown to be sort of meek, manipulative, a master of disguise, whereas Valor is bold, determined, eager to get involved, etc. Compassion is putting someone else's needs before yourself, so I paired it with Desire, the opposite. And that left us with;
Tier 1: Rage & Justice
Tier 2: Sloth & Valor
Tier 3: Desire & Compassion
Tier 4: Pride & Faith
Tier 5: Despair & Hope
From having read the book, Cole is a phenomenal character, and I sincerely hope he plays some sort of role in Dragon Age: Inquisition. I remember finishing the book, and once I got past that little epilogue, I was like "Cole would make for one awesome/deep companion." So that's what I'm holding out hope for, haha.
Seems pretty spot on to me, considering the real-world's 7 Sins-Virtues:
Chastity-Lust
Temperance-Gluttony
Charity-Greed
Diligence-Sloth
Patience-Wrath
Kindness-Envy
Humility-Pride
They were derived from two sets of virtues: The four Cardinal virtues, from ancient Greek philosophy, are Prudence, Justice, Temperance (or Restraint), and Courage (or Fortitude). The three Theological virtues, from the letters of St. Paul of Tarsus, are Faith, Hope, and Charity (or Love).
#80
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 03:20
RepHope
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^You guys are missing one tho: Hunger what's the corresponding spirit for that
#81
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 06:57
Fredward
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RepHope wrote...
^You guys are missing one tho: Hunger what's the corresponding spirit for that
Hunger could slot in with Gluttony. It works with Temperance too.
#82
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 12:42
Nightdragon8
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Foopydoopydoo wrote...
RepHope wrote...
^You guys are missing one tho: Hunger what's the corresponding spirit for that
Hunger could slot in with Gluttony. It works with Temperance too.
hunger is a sin??? you mean like lust or gluttony... cause hunger is a condition... (sorry I seem alittle confised by this)
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
#83
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 01:41
Avroseeker
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Nightdragon8 wrote...
Foopydoopydoo wrote...
RepHope wrote...
^You guys are missing one tho: Hunger what's the corresponding spirit for that
Hunger could slot in with Gluttony. It works with Temperance too.
hunger is a sin??? you mean like lust or gluttony... cause hunger is a condition... (sorry I seem alittle confised by this)
I'm pretty sure "Hunger" in this case is wanting things that you all ready have plenty of, but you still desire those things anyways. Like power or wealth. You just want more and more, which would fit Gluttony. "Hunger" doesn't mean that you are always actually hungry because your girlfriend or boyfriend put you on salad diet.
Modifié par Avroseeker, 08 juillet 2013 - 01:42 .
#84
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 03:57
azarhal
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I like this discussion. 
Scale from weakess to most powerful spirit (Hope is the most powerful spirit according to WoT) and the lore says the more complex the emotion the more powerful the demon.
Wisp (they don't represent anything)
(Wrath) Rage vs Justice
Fear vs Valor
(Greed/Gluttony) Hunger vs Compassion
(Sloth) Sloth vs ?
(Envy/Lust) Desire vs Mercy
(Pride) Pride vs Faith (per Mr. Gaider)
Despair vs Hope
Compassion is said to be weak, so I suggest putting it with Hunger. Mercy would then go to Desire. I find it interesting that the higher the scale the more "religious" the spirit is.
Note that this list all the known demons and spirits mentioned in WoT, games and DAI info. We are missing Sloth's uncorrupted form, unless I missed a spirit of Perseverance/Diligence mentioned somewhere.
So Cole would be either a demon of Hunger or Desire, because his original action was either showing compassion or mercy.
Scale from weakess to most powerful spirit (Hope is the most powerful spirit according to WoT) and the lore says the more complex the emotion the more powerful the demon.
Wisp (they don't represent anything)
(Wrath) Rage vs Justice
Fear vs Valor
(Greed/Gluttony) Hunger vs Compassion
(Sloth) Sloth vs ?
(Envy/Lust) Desire vs Mercy
(Pride) Pride vs Faith (per Mr. Gaider)
Despair vs Hope
Compassion is said to be weak, so I suggest putting it with Hunger. Mercy would then go to Desire. I find it interesting that the higher the scale the more "religious" the spirit is.
Note that this list all the known demons and spirits mentioned in WoT, games and DAI info. We are missing Sloth's uncorrupted form, unless I missed a spirit of Perseverance/Diligence mentioned somewhere.
So Cole would be either a demon of Hunger or Desire, because his original action was either showing compassion or mercy.
#85
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 07:53
Marrissa
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What I'd like to know is why people slowly started to forget him.
#86
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 08:19
Beerfish
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LadyRissa wrote...
What I'd like to know is why people slowly started to forget him.
Blood magic perhaps.
#87
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 08:23
Tootles FTW
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Beerfish wrote...
LadyRissa wrote...
What I'd like to know is why people slowly started to forget him.
Blood magic perhaps.
Yes, I thought this was confirmed in the book? He was subconsciously using blood magic to alter people's memories of him. His loneliness ended up being a direct result of his actions, however unintentional.
#88
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 08:29
Mr.House
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I do like the idea that Cole was a spirit of hope that turned into a demon of despair, which would explain why he is extremely powerful and why people like Cole simply didn't know what they where dealing with.
#89
Posté 08 juillet 2013 - 08:32
Marrissa
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Tootles FTW wrote...
Beerfish wrote...
LadyRissa wrote...
What I'd like to know is why people slowly started to forget him.
Blood magic perhaps.
Yes, I thought this was confirmed in the book? He was subconsciously using blood magic to alter people's memories of him. His loneliness ended up being a direct result of his actions, however unintentional.
Aw, yeah. That makes sense.
#90
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 09:19
Rolling Flame
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One thing I don't understand is why Justice didn't become a demon or was considered such after it merged with Anders and became Vengence. Does that mean that there is some form of middle ground between demons and spirits, and that spirits that are corrupted cross this ground on the path to becoming a demon, or do they become something else entirely?
#91
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 10:47
Mykel54
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Rolling Flame wrote...
One thing I don't understand is why Justice didn't become a demon or was considered such after it merged with Anders and became Vengence. Does that mean that there is some form of middle ground between demons and spirits, and that spirits that are corrupted cross this ground on the path to becoming a demon, or do they become something else entirely?
A demon from the fade is not the same as a spirit that becomes a demon in the real world. Justice was transforming itself and slowly becoming a demon, but he wasn´t there yet. You can see it in how he gains more and more control over Anders, and eventually he would have become a full fledged abomination. The demons of the fade have had a lot of time to become what they are, maybe some of them used to be spirits, or they became demons shortly after the person´s death (this is speculation, we don´t really know how it works). The fact of the matter is that Justice was a spirit that was slowly being changed into a demon, he didn´t automatically become a demon of Vengeance, it was a slow process, so in the game what you see is a sort of hybrid.
Modifié par Mykel54, 09 juillet 2013 - 10:48 .
#92
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 05:10
Giubba
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Baelyn wrote...
All the people who 'wished to die' he had influence over them. He murdered people to maintian his existence. These were no mercy killings.
Well no, i've just re read the novel and Cole is far more complex than this.
Cole character is made of two different piece:
1)Human Cole: the boy forgotten inside the white spear cell
2)Spirit Cole: The spirit that found the boy.
The point is that for the 99% of the book Spirit Cole is not aware of being a spirit so he act and behave like Human Cole or rather the horribly traumatized boy died years ago in a prison.
So the kills made by Cole for sustain his essence in the material world were made with the moral compass of Human Cole and we all know what were his past experience.
The only kill made with malice by Cole as character is made in the last 1% were
*spoiler*
Cole slith Lambert's throat
*spoiler*
Being fully aware of his existence as spirit.
#93
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 05:59
Magdalena11
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I actually googled the seven deadly sins and discovered that despair and envy were flip-flopped somewhere in the dark ages. It seems that the translation of ancient Greek into Latin was a bit buggy (who would have thought?) and the Greek word that was originally translated into despair was actually closer to what translates in English into envy. I'm not sure how envy would apply to Cole. As the original, mortal Cole lay dying, did he yearn for something someone else had - freedom? While Cole's actions were reprehensible once the spirit possessed him, it was only after he met Rhys. Did meeting the spirit medium change something in Cole? Perhaps it was only then that the spirit envied the permanency Rhys possessed. Asunder does mention that Cole kept being surprised that Rhys still found him real.
#94
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 02:14
legbamel
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I don't know that we need draw exact parallels to real-world religious distinctions. Despair and Hunger may be demons because they plague you with an excess of these negative emotions and feed off them, not because they are sin in and of themselves. The beginnings of despair miight be mistaken for sloth, for instance, until it gets worse and worse. The Seven Deadlies are good for a general inspiration but I don't think they're a hard and fast rule for classifying Fade creatures.
