17 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparbiter]

I'm once again replaying the entire trilogy. Since I bought Mass Effect 2 used for the Xbox, I didn't get free access to Cerberus network and Zaeed like many, so there are some new elements for me this time around since EA disabled the online pass. That said, I'm finding all three games to be extreme contrasts to one another.

I won't be discussing story, just gameplay mechanics.

On a game by game basis:

Mass Effect (original)

+ I absolutely love the open world freedom. Choosing the order of the main quest, whether to ignore it for a while, just driving around in the Mako exploring planets. Even the Citadel feels enormous because of all the areas.

+ The level of customization of your equipment and armor. You get omni-tools of your choice, Biotic amps, different armor sets, dozens of different weapons, multiple ammo combinations, armor mods slots.

+ Weapon training. While I don't like the idea that an engineer can't use a shotgun, or an adept can only use pistols, the idea of specializing in a weapon was pretty cool. Playing through ME1, maxing out my shotgun skill and level X ammo, one shotting powerful enemies... that was fun.

- The combat and shooting mechanics were poor. There was no real melee system to speak of, until you got charged. Much of the game was spent with the power wheel pausing the game and selecting targets (almost turn based, lol).

- Despite having huge, open worlds, most of it was recycled or just flat out empty. The same two or three dungeons were used over and over.

Mass Effect 2
+ The combat was improved but still clunky. Some might argue that the balance between weapons and powers was at its peak here, but I'm not sure. Still, vast improvements to the cover system, power mapping, and improvements to sprinting were welcome nuts and bolts overhauls.

+ The ship lighting. A minor thing, but the ME2 Normandy was so nicely lit.

+ The suicide mission. Fantastic, made you use up all of your squad to their particular talents, dozens of different outcomes.

- A huge simplification of the inventory. No more omni-tool characteristics, biotic amp characteristics.... Armor mods were now replaced by armor pieces with fixed bonuses. Grenades were nearly completely removed with the exception of a couple grenade powers.

- Forcing me to have heavy weapons equipped. An eyesore.

Mass Effect 3

+ A huge improvement to the combat (a positive trend for the series). Increased mobility and unlimited sprint were great additions. Plus, the reintroduction of the overheat weapon system to go alongside thermal clips is a nice way to mix things up.

+ The multiplayer. It started slow, and nearly everyone thought this was an unneeded addition to the franchise. But it turned out to be great. Not a AAA title by any means, but tons of fun.

+ Power evolutions. You could now have powers specifically designed for your playstyle. You can set up Overload for one big shield drain, or for crowd control, or for a middle ground.

+ No more weapon restrictions by class.

+ Multiplayer diversity. Allowing us to play as different races with different skillsets.

+ Weapon modding. The idea was great.

- Forcing me to have that Cobra launcher equipped in MP. It's an eyesore.

- Limiting us to kits in MP. While it lengthened the game's life cycle, it would've been nice to have more customization over powers and appearance in MP.

- Weapon mods balance: most mods were rendered useless by the damage and piercing, especially in the MP side.

- Complete removal of sidequests. This was a huge negative. Not only were the fetch quests boring and repetitive, but the few N7 missions are almost unplayable for me because I've logged 500 some hours into the multiplayer.


If I were developing the next Mass Effect, I would gather the communities pros an cons list, and try to implement the pros and take out the cons. If you did that with my list, you'd have:

An open world game with vehicle exploration, with fully customizable armor, weapons, omni tools, biotic amps. You'd have missions that actually require you to utilize your squad's talents. You'd have an inventory system, and an organized journal for all of you sidequests that have actual story elements. No ugly Cobra launcher on your back unless you want it.  You'd have weapon training, but not weapon restrictions. You could specialize in assault rifles, but any class could use them. And in addition to the SP campaign, you'd have multiplayer.


I don't know, just seems like with ME4 or whatever being in development, the community should be voicing their wants. So, Bioware, here's some feedback.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

If I had to make a suggestion, I would tell Bioware to look at System Shock 1&2. A game like that, set in a populated city setting like the Citadel, with third-person shooting mechanics and a divergent story dependent on player choice, multiple talent specializations and character builds, etc... would be pretty damn epic imo.

[MstrJedi Kyle]

The only issue I ever had with the trilogy was the ending. I thought each game was fantastic, but that last 10 minutes.... Actually that's not true, another issue I had was that Omega was a bit overpriced I thought.

[MrStoob]

Can't disagree with the lists there really.

I'd add also that the elements of choice and consequence were not realised very well in ME3, when it was so prevalent in the previous 2 titles, amounting in a few extra EMS here and there. That was a sharp downturn for ME3.

If you're going down the 'lessons learned' route, then... see BSN suggestions post-ME3, and compare to the DLC. Close, but no cigar I'd say.

"We want to fight along side Aria in Omega!" the fans cried.
"Here you go." BW say.
"But... it's just run and gun? Even the female turian is a pointless character." the fans say.
"That's what you asked for..."
"But there's no character development, it's all static, and what about Aria's daughter being killed by Cerberus?"
"You didn't ask for that..."
"It's BioWare! It's implied!"

...aaand so on.

[jontepwn]

One thing that annoys me with Mass Effect 3 is the limited dialogue wheel. In Mass Effect 1 & 2 there were usually 3 choices, sometimes more, when chosing what to say. In Mass Effect 3 you have:

1. Paragon. "Nice" answer, sympathetic.
2. Renegade. Vengeful. Mean. Violent.
(Sometimes) 3. Why? How? More info essentially.

The dialogue in Mass Effect 3 feels constricted and it's especially annoying that Shepard speaks without your input, essentially making it feel like you're just watching a cutscene with a couple of dialogue choices every other minute. In my opinion it cheapens the experience, and unlike previous games, doesn't feel like the character Shepard is mine to control. In Mass Effect 1 & 2, you could personally choose whether or not to be sympathetic, or crack wise, be indifferent, etc. It essentially made Shepard "yours". And that made it much more immersive and engrossing. It is especially annoying when I just want to tell a certain character to sod off, when Shepard is automatically concerned and asks if he can help, even though I don't want to. And if given the chance I would have said so. But nope. Game plays itself.

[Fresh Bamboo]

Loved 1 and 2, hated 3.
3 had good skill trees and the right idea combat-wise, but poor story /ending/conversations/character development
The third installment honestly ruined Mass Effect for me so I just act like it was a stand alone game.

[Drogonion]

Overall agree with the OP, altho he doesn't discuss the STORY element of the game, which for many players was the number 1 attraction.

I loved the MP, because my bad experience with the disaster of the last 10 mins pretty much destroyed my desire to revisit any of the SP trilogy.

Imho, the ME trilogy could have been an epic achievement in RP gaming if they had remembered the basic elements of narrative story telling.

In short, w/e direction they go with ME4, they need new narrative talent at the helm. I don't know if anyone's head rolled at Bioware due to the fiasco of an ending, but if the same team is leading the design of the new game I will certainly be waiting until the player reviews are out bef I put down any money.

[levyjl1988]

CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION!
I was turned off by character customization, the only decent looking Shepard was the default Male and female Shepard (ME3 only). That alone halted my experience.

[Sir DeLoria]

levyjl1988 wrote...

CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION!
I was turned off by character customization, the only decent looking Shepard was the default Male and female Shepard (ME3 only). That alone halted my experience.

My Clint Eastwood Shepard disagrees.

[levyjl1988]

Saints Row the third had the best character customization, thus far. If Bioware can match that in terms of available customization options. Everything i've seen from console games have been crap. Dragon Age: Origins was good, but you can't change it at anytime like in DA2.

[Sir DeLoria]

levyjl1988 wrote...

Saints Row the third had the best character customization, thus far. If Bioware can match that in terms of available customization options. Everything i've seen from console games have been crap. Dragon Age: Origins was good, but you can't change it at anytime like in DA2.

No doubt, SR3 had an awesome character customization. ME is ok, it's still better than Fallout 3/NV.

[KaiserShep]

jontepwn wrote...

One thing that annoys me with Mass Effect 3 is the limited dialogue wheel. In Mass Effect 1 & 2 there were usually 3 choices, sometimes more, when chosing what to say. In Mass Effect 3 you have:

1. Paragon. "Nice" answer, sympathetic.
2. Renegade. Vengeful. Mean. Violent.
(Sometimes) 3. Why? How? More info essentially.

The dialogue in Mass Effect 3 feels constricted and it's especially annoying that Shepard speaks without your input, essentially making it feel like you're just watching a cutscene with a couple of dialogue choices every other minute. In my opinion it cheapens the experience, and unlike previous games, doesn't feel like the character Shepard is mine to control. In Mass Effect 1 & 2, you could personally choose whether or not to be sympathetic, or crack wise, be indifferent, etc. It essentially made Shepard "yours". And that made it much more immersive and engrossing. It is especially annoying when I just want to tell a certain character to sod off, when Shepard is automatically concerned and asks if he can help, even though I don't want to. And if given the chance I would have said so. But nope. Game plays itself.

ME1 sure had a lot of false choices though. I rather liked ME2's dialogue options, though every now and then, Shepard can go a bit overboard without warning (using the "nice" options for certain convos turns femShep all super-flirt). But I miss being able to troll the council from ME1. That is easily my favorite options in the original game. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 juillet 2013 - 08:13 .

[Sparbiter]

This is another thing that bugs me. I don't like the forced name of Shepard. I feel like you should have a default name, but if you choose you could make your protagonist anyone. I'm not digressing that mass effect record dialogue for every different name out there, but just let us pick something other than the default name. They can call us commander, or sir, or if necessary, record a few nicknames to use in place of Shepard.

Would really add to multiple play throughs if I could make, say, Bill Clinton and run through the story with him.

For the next game, let us have more creative input over the name, appearance, background, and personality. By the third game, Shepard and his or her personality were almost decided for you.

[KaiserShep]

A distinct name is necessary. Without it, other characters would never be able to address the protagonist in a manner other than some professional role. Recorded sets of nicknames would not really make much of a difference. It would only serve to the same effect anyway.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 juillet 2013 - 09:09 .

[Redbelle]

KaiserShep wrote...

jontepwn wrote...

One thing that annoys me with Mass Effect 3 is the limited dialogue wheel. In Mass Effect 1 & 2 there were usually 3 choices, sometimes more, when chosing what to say. In Mass Effect 3 you have:

1. Paragon. "Nice" answer, sympathetic.
2. Renegade. Vengeful. Mean. Violent.
(Sometimes) 3. Why? How? More info essentially.

The dialogue in Mass Effect 3 feels constricted and it's especially annoying that Shepard speaks without your input, essentially making it feel like you're just watching a cutscene with a couple of dialogue choices every other minute. In my opinion it cheapens the experience, and unlike previous games, doesn't feel like the character Shepard is mine to control. In Mass Effect 1 & 2, you could personally choose whether or not to be sympathetic, or crack wise, be indifferent, etc. It essentially made Shepard "yours". And that made it much more immersive and engrossing. It is especially annoying when I just want to tell a certain character to sod off, when Shepard is automatically concerned and asks if he can help, even though I don't want to. And if given the chance I would have said so. But nope. Game plays itself.

ME1 sure had a lot of false choices though. I rather liked ME2's dialogue options, though every now and then, Shepard can go a bit overboard without warning (using the "nice" options for certain convos turns femShep all super-flirt). But I miss being able to troll the council from ME1. That is easily my favorite options in the original game. 

I prefer the ME1 and 2 approach to dialogue. If only for the fact that when I move the captain of the ship in to initiate conversation, they snap to attention and turn to face Shepard. So much better than just getting a 'hey' that fobs off your effort's to initiate dialogue. It's a screen of non interactivity. And if those who say they don't want to have conversation's they've already had, then just don't talk to them when the penny drops.

That said, ME3's treatment of character's and dialogue was not even handed. Soe character's barely had anything to say, while others did have those recurring dialogue wheels that allowed you to explore other dialogue options. So really, those who like repeatable dialogue lost, and those who wanted non repeatable dialogue still had to put up with it being in the game.

Just make the game as frequently interactive as possible and leave it to the gamer to judge how and when to do what they want to do. If the developer makes the choice for the gamer then that takes away from the gamers perogative to choose for themselves.

[voteDC]

Sparbiter wrote...
Mass Effect (original)

+ Weapon training. While I don't like the idea that an engineer can't use a shotgun, or an adept can only use pistols, the idea of specializing in a weapon was pretty cool. Playing through ME1, maxing out my shotgun skill and level X ammo, one shotting powerful enemies... that was fun.

To be fair though once you unlocked the matching achievement, you could give a new Engineer a shotgun to train in.

I think Mass Effect handled its achievements the best and the bonuses they gave you encouraged the use of the other classes for Shepard. I find a Soldier with Decryption as an ability to be very effective.

Sparbiter wrote...- The combat and shooting mechanics were poor. There was no real melee system to speak of, until you got charged. Much of the game was spent with the power wheel pausing the game and selecting targets (almost turn based, lol).

I couldn't agree more about the melee. Drove me mad how you'd want to shoot an enemy but Shepard would flail madly at the corpse at their feet.

Aside from that though, I really am one of the few people who prefered the combat in the first game. I liked how your weapon was more stable in the crouch and how the weapons became less accurate if you just prayed and sprayed. Also as I mentioned in another thread I liked how the stats being as important to the gunplay as the players aim gave a sense of progression to the gun side of the combat, one I found very lacking in the two sequels.

I also liked how biotics weren't limited to just spamming biotic combos from behind a chest high wall. As someone who usually plays as an Adept, ME2 and 3 felt limiting to me.

Just as a last comment because I don't want to add another quote. I thought the cover system was better in the first game as well. Not only could you take advantage of cover without the need to be pressed against it but not once have I ever entered cover when I didn't mean to.

A great discussion list though. It's always good to hear other people's thoughts.

[levyjl1988]

I hated:

1. Pointless Collectable missions.
ie) Mass Effect 1

Galaxy Collection asignments come to mind in Mass Effect 1. These assignments involve travelling aross Citadel spaceto hunt down numerous hidden collectables.

UNC: Prothean Data Discs
UNS: Turian Insignias
UNC: Valuable Minerals
UNC: Locale Signs of Battle
UNC: Asari Writings.

The problem with this is that it became quite a chore especially for the completionists in ME. It was an uncessary side quest that cannot be tracked. Which ones have I collected, which ones I haven't. Which planet did I visit, which planets I didn't?

2. Scanning Planets.
ie) Mass Effect 2

Good good this is terrible game design. Not only did Bioware want to extend the replayability of the game they made this pointless mini-game a bloody chore. For the completionists like me I bled each and every planet dry to deleption (just because I'm ADD like that). It hindered the flow of the game preventing you to get to the meat of the game. This is also a kick in the nuts for replay value, to rescan all the planets AGAIN. I can understand this was eliminated in Mass Effect 3 to cut down on the montony, which I liked, but why not just remove it all together? In the end when replaying the game to full completion players would have a checklist, visit here, check this out, get reward here. How about we focus instead on interesting side quests than damn annoying treasure hunts. It's like finding a needle in a hay thread.

3. Knowing which planet is in which cluster.
ie) Mass Effect 1

First time through this can be quite overwhelming. Often I kept referring to a guide, which planet belonged in which cluster. Kind of wished it was streamlined with a better interface to show which planets belong where.

4. Skipping Dialogue also skips choices if you're in a rsuh.
ie) Mass Effect 1

Skipping dialogue also causes players to skip choices. Knowing what the npc is going to say I repeatedly press X, then when a choice appears it forces me to select the most neutral choice. This is annoying as hell. Skipping dialogue should only skip dialogue but NEVER choices. So many oppertunities missed in selecting the choice I want.

5. Poorly implemented Achievements.
ie) Mass Effect 1

Complete the majority of the game with the (Turian, Quarian, Asari, Krogan, Sentinel, Solider) squad member.

This is the case when achievements dictate how you play the game. I thought this was all about making choices, but when a game hints sublminally on who should be in your party 75% of the time and make it missable, this aggrevates the player. The best use of achievements to satisfy players is quest achievements, that way players are inclined to do that quest and see the developers hard work, but at the same time they can make the in game descions for themselves.

6. Character Face Customization

Offer more choices in face character customization.
ie) Best character customization in a game so far: Saints Row the Third.
Do that! Also offer the ability for players to remake the character's face early on if they aren't satisfied with the changes, like what Dragon Age 2 did. It worked with the mirror (because of magic, duh), I sure Bioware can come up with an excuse in game for a reason. In addition have a character face code at all time like Mass Effect 2 so people can replicate it. For reasons unknown why this code isn't present in New game + baffles me.

7. Understand the player.

There are players who are obsessed with your franchises, some players are of the casual kind, they will play only the story missions, a bit of the assignments and done. Going through one playthrough. Others are completionists. Going to max Shepard's level, do every side quests, listen to every dialogue choice, etc. Why make it a chore for these players? Why all the scanning of the planets AGAIN, in their second playthrough, or reacquiring certain upgrades all over again, or doing quests that involve going to this planet again and acquiring them. Quality over quanity. It's not about dumbing down the experience, but making the gameplay exciting instead of tedious ways of trying to artifically extending a game, this can be done by new game + and listening to different result of choices.

8. Save limit restrictions.
ie) Mass Effect 1-3

The idea of restricting certain amount of saves per character is annoying as hell. Save limit restrictions SHOULD only be done if there is not enough space on the HDD to allow it. But restricting saves on account for the game, WTF. Allow the flexability as KOTOR did.

9. Spent more time in menu than playing the game.
ie) Mass Effect 1

Character customizing is great, retrofitting your squad with certain equipment and gear. But in ME1 it was a mess and felt cumbersome. Glad they simplied it in ME3. Micromanaging everything can be a chore. I understand the players who want to min and max stats and things, but too much of it takes away from the game.

10. Mass Effect Genesis was limited

It did not have the small decsions that would carry over. What if I wanted to see Kerrahe alive, or Wrex with his armor? No I have to play ME1 again. At least an option menu to flag this as yes or no instead or replaying a game over again to see the result.

11. Certain classes can only use certain weapons.
ie) Mass Effect 1

When my class is untrained for using a weapon it gets annoying as hell. Glad they fixed this in later installments.

Now for things I did like.

1. New Game +
Because certain things carried over, Shepard's existing level, paragone levels, collectables like fish and ships. Also there are bonuses like exp, credts, and resources that stay. Though Bioware should make it an effort to tell the player what carries over and what benefits are had to redoing a second playthorugh.


that's all I can think of so far.

Modifié par levyjl1988, 08 juillet 2013 - 05:26 .

[Endurium]

Focusing on gameplay, nice topic.

ME1:
- Love the heat sink system and diversity in equipment. It's a refreshing change from ammo-based shooters, which are a dime a dozen.
- Love the Citadel with all its little quests and beautiful vistas.
- Love the main mission planets.
- Mixed feelings on side mission/resource planets; loved planets with realistic terrain, disliked planets with non-realistic spiky terrain. Some planets have great ambient atmosphere, especially in a headset.
- I play on PC so it doesn't feel like a turn based game to me. I feel for XBox players in this respect. I watched someone play it on XBox and they spent more time pausing to select skills than actually fighting.
- Despite its age I can play the game at 1920x1200, and it looks great.
- Overall I enjoy the companions.
- The Normandy looks good externally but is dark internally with a slow elevator.
- Love that the Normany remains docked at the place I'm visiting until I decide to go elsewhere.

ME2:
- Love the graphics, sound, and music upgrades. The first world we visit has a very Alien-esque sound/ambience.
- Don't like the change to an ammo-based system so I modded the weapons to use less ammo and be more like ME1's system.
- Don't like the greatly reduced equipment customization system.
- Love the new Normandy exterior and interior.
- Love the new crew and most of the new companions.
- Don't like that I have to mod the game in order to get Tali and Legion into my team before the game is 50% complete (and on top of that they have dialog to support earlier appearance.)
- Don't like the ultra low-res balcony people in various city scenes.
- Love the Hammerhead and its associated missions.
- Don't like Arrival DLC
- Love the suicide mission; have completed it with everyone surviving, and with only four people surviving (Tali, Miranda, Joker, myself).
- Love Omega more than Citadel, in part because we get to see so little of the Citadel compared to ME1.
- Don't like the change that requires Normandy to use fuel in intersystem travel. Modded it away.
- Don't like the change that has the Normandy leaving the dock of the place I'm visiting, before I actually decide to go somewhere. Has resulted in my having to re-dock just to get back into the place I'm visiting.

ME3:
- Love the graphics upgrade
- Generally enjoy the modified Normandy
- Don't like waiting so long before I can examine Normandy.
- Don't like the Picture Pages tour I'm given right at the start of my boarding Normandy as CO. IMO, that should have been disabled for those of us who imported Shepard from ME2.
- Love entering the Geth mainframe and running around like I'm in TRON.
- Love the return to equipment modification, but again modded ammo usage to mimize it.
- Disappointed that Ashley's very obvious skill glitch remains after all this time, after somehow getting past the QA team.
- Mixed feelings on Companions and Crew.
- System exploration quickly got annoying to me, so I modded away the Reaper component.
- Don't like multiplayer affecting my singleplayer campaign, so I modded that too.
- Have no interest in multiplayer so can't comment on it gameplay-wise.
- Game feels like just another shooter, albeit with the ME biotic twist.
- Don't like having to leave and return to hear complete conversations NPCs are having. Feel's heavy-handed, not to mention being rather unrealistic. "Don't say any more on this topic until Shepard leaves this map and returns." No sane people do that in conversation.
- I enjoy gathering war assets on the singleplayer side. I get more of a feeling of accomplishment from that than I do from the game ending.

Thanks to mods I enjoy playing through the trilogy, gameplay-wise. Story-wise there are points where I have to shake my head and carry on.

Modifié par Endurium, 08 juillet 2013 - 06:12 .