Which means that you agree with me that a combat design which doesn't let me reduce the time I'm forced to spend with it drastically is undesirable.... which is what I've been saying all the time since the OP.Star fury wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
In the OP, I explained why that sometimes doesn't reduce the time spent with the combat significantly, as in DA2.Steelcan wrote...
Its called Casual difficulty.
It doesn't reduce time because DA2 has horrible combat system and it was poorly thought.
Ieldra2 wrote...
Which means that you agree with me that a combat design which doesn't let me reduce the time I'm forced to spend with it drastically is undesirable.... which is what I've been saying all the time since the OP.Star fury wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
In the OP, I explained why that sometimes doesn't reduce the time spent with the combat significantly, as in DA2.Steelcan wrote...
Its called Casual difficulty.
It doesn't reduce time because DA2 has horrible combat system and it was poorly thought.
Star fury wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
In the OP, I explained why that sometimes doesn't reduce the time spent with the combat significantly, as in DA2.Steelcan wrote...
Its called Casual difficulty.
It doesn't reduce time because DA2 has horrible combat system and it was poorly thought.
You kill significantly faster on Casual in DAO. Less so in DA2, because one of the hordes of trash enemies doesn't die any faster on Casual than on Normal. Here it's the number of enemies which takes time to kill.LinksOcarina wrote...
Star fury wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
In the OP, I explained why that sometimes doesn't reduce the time spent with the combat significantly, as in DA2.Steelcan wrote...
Its called Casual difficulty.
It doesn't reduce time because DA2 has horrible combat system and it was poorly thought.
It didn't reduce the time in Origins either. So i'm confused by both of your points.
Bull****. I don't think you played DA:O.LinksOcarina wrote...
Star fury wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
In the OP, I explained why that sometimes doesn't reduce the time spent with the combat significantly, as in DA2.Steelcan wrote...
Its called Casual difficulty.
It doesn't reduce time because DA2 has horrible combat system and it was poorly thought.
It didn't reduce the time in Origins either. So i'm confused by both of your points.
Ieldra2 wrote...
You kill significantly faster on Casual in DAO. Less so in DA2, because one of the hordes of trash enemies doesn't die any faster on Casual than on Normal. Here it's the number of enemies which takes time to kill.LinksOcarina wrote...
Star fury wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
In the OP, I explained why that sometimes doesn't reduce the time spent with the combat significantly, as in DA2.Steelcan wrote...
Its called Casual difficulty.
It doesn't reduce time because DA2 has horrible combat system and it was poorly thought.
It didn't reduce the time in Origins either. So i'm confused by both of your points.
(Of course the fact that DA2's combat is about as much fun as chopping onions makes it feel even longer, but that's beside the point).
Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 juillet 2013 - 07:21 .
I didn't check if there were many replies to this one - just jumpin in here...Ieldra2 wrote...
Star fury wrote...
Do you want this?
"Games almost always include a way to "button through" dialogue without paying attention, because they understand that some players don't enjoy listening to dialogue and they don't want to stop their fun. Yet they persist in practically coming into your living room and forcing you to play through the combats even if you're a player who only enjoys the dialogue." © Jennifer Hepler
I had hoped someone on the developer side would've recognized this problem.
Yeah, skipping through combat encounters like we can skip through dialogue, that would be pretty cool.
@Plaintiff:
If this topic comes up often, it's because it's a problem for many.
Olmert wrote...
Just use a cheat code. I have no objection to those. But an "I win" button? No, that's too brazen.
GameHunter wrote...
First reaction to role playing game about all out war with ability to skip combat EPIC LOL.
To explain in simple words lets see your idea on game like DA II.
If all fights in DA II could have been skip able and if you on subsequent play through you skipped
them you would be left with ability to run around same streets and caves and etc. all the time, pick up stuff and choose one of 3 tones of voice and also 1 of 2 sides of conflict which was more obnoxious than combat in some aspects since you couldn't care less if not mage but everyone was getting in your face about it and in the end you would get pretty same results w/e you did. That would have been major roleplaying experience XD.
Not to mention people who want to check all possible outcomes of situation could easily load and try again since combat is skip-able which in the end would greatly reduce replay-ability.
You combat skippers are geniuses.
FedericoV wrote...
But honestly I think that the ME3 model wih its "story mode/action mode/rpg mode" solution is wrong. Why? Because those modes challenge the artistic and authorial integrity of a videogame. Games are a whole composed in equal parts by what we can call story, gameplay and art. You can't just remove one part of the equation only because a part of your audience is not interested in it.
Modifié par GithCheater, 10 juillet 2013 - 01:24 .
Alex109222 wrote...
Bioware should really be rid of the nonsense wave combat in DA2 and go back to origins combat and improve it.
Also have a difficulty setting lower than casual for players such as hepler and OP.
Also, the waves actually come slower on casual in DA2. On higher difficulty levels, the waves come faster, giving you less time to react. On casual, there's sometimes even enough time between waves for combat to technically end and you to regenerate health and mana.Ieldra2 wrote...
Less so in DA2, because one of the hordes of trash enemies doesn't die any faster on Casual than on Normal. Here it's the number of enemies which takes time to kill.
Because Facebook games are just so within the context of this discussion, yes? If I say "the market" it must totally mean I'm including Farm Heroes and Candy Crush.MisanthropePrime wrote...
The "casual"/facebook/mobile market is dominated by non-violent games, mostly of a simulation or puzzle variety. AAA, high profile games are combat-heavy in the same way that summer blockbusters are action-heavy, but there are plenty of games that don't have combat.Nightwriter wrote...
... But gameplay/combat gamers have, like, a stranglehold on the market. They know very well that games will no sooner stop selling gameplay than Bond movies will stop selling male fantasies. I think they're trying a bit too hard to feel threatened, here.Realmzmaster wrote...
The fear I think many are having is that quite a few gamers will use the option to ignore combat and that developers will not put as much effort into combat gameplay in future games. That means their gameplay experience will be diminished.
The autoresolve button did not have this problem because the party still had a chance to lose the encounter or a character. So the gamer still had to put effort into developing the party to have a good chance of winning the encounter.
The autowin button simply allows complete skipping of any combat and you do not have to level up your party. You can basically finish the game at level one.
Gamers are objecting because they do not wish to see a trend established and developers start ignoring combat.
That is my take on the situation.
As I stated as long as my enjoyment is not affected I do not care. It is when it is affact that I will have a problem with because the developers is slacking off on refining the combat aspect.
Modifié par Nightwriter, 10 juillet 2013 - 07:50 .
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Also, the waves actually come slower on casual in DA2. On higher difficulty levels, the waves come faster, giving you less time to react. On casual, there's sometimes even enough time between waves for combat to technically end and you to regenerate health and mana.Ieldra2 wrote...
Less so in DA2, because one of the hordes of trash enemies doesn't die any faster on Casual than on Normal. Here it's the number of enemies which takes time to kill.
Modifié par philippe willaume, 10 juillet 2013 - 09:22 .
Yet again: difficulty and/or effort is not the issue, time spent with combat is. If I find the combat boring, either because I don't like how it's done or because this is my nth playthrough where I just want to see the story and how my decisions play out, it doesn't matter if I'm forced to do things or forced to watch things. I just want it to be over fast.FynAch wrote...
I didn't check if there were many replies to this one - just jumpin in here...Ieldra2 wrote...
Star fury wrote...
Do you want this?
"Games almost always include a way to "button through" dialogue without paying attention, because they understand that some players don't enjoy listening to dialogue and they don't want to stop their fun. Yet they persist in practically coming into your living room and forcing you to play through the combats even if you're a player who only enjoys the dialogue." © Jennifer Hepler
I had hoped someone on the developer side would've recognized this problem.
Yeah, skipping through combat encounters like we can skip through dialogue, that would be pretty cool.
@Plaintiff:
If this topic comes up often, it's because it's a problem for many.
Ok...so, a button to skip combat. I enjoy the combat but can appreciate the request to skip it. And I would welcome it in this way ...
What if the button to skip the combat made the game play out the combat based on your party stats? And you could just watch?
Then, if you were not strong enough to win on auto (and I mean you get to see all your little mages and wizzards and warriors / rogue dual classes fighting it out) that would mean you would have to try again and take an active role in the combat.
Probably initiated by a 'Fight' / 'AutoFight' yes/no option at the start of the fight.
B.
Never playing warriors in DA2, I don't know what you're talking about.philippe willaume wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Also, the waves actually come slower on casual in DA2. On higher difficulty levels, the waves come faster, giving you less time to react. On casual, there's sometimes even enough time between waves for combat to technically end and you to regenerate health and mana.Ieldra2 wrote...
Less so in DA2, because one of the hordes of trash enemies doesn't die any faster on Casual than on Normal. Here it's the number of enemies which takes time to kill.
yes i believe Sylvius is correct.
You need to understand that waves are a necessary mechanism for the combat to work for warrior. Waves mooks are stamina pit stops.
Yes. The cheat can interfere with story events though. That would be bad.we already killall from a console, so getting it buttonised is not the ultimate development effort, i would prefer if it was an instant resolve as Relmzmaster rather than a instantkill, but i am not that fussy about the implementation.
i think it is a good idea to have it for people that find combat tedious, for quick replay for a different import or having to big of a place.
IE having it is not taking anything away
LOL. I've been playing fantasy RPGs for about 25 years, and while the combat was rarely my favorite aspect, I also rarely complained about it to the extent I did about DA2's. Of course combat has always been a part of these games, and in the old games there was considerably more pointless random combat than in most modern games. In general, the development is going towards "make combat more meaningful" and that's how it should be. However, there are games like DX:HR which you can play almost without ever killing anyone. This would likely not be feasible for the kind of stories we're playing in the DA universe, but DA games could - and should - take inspiration from them and provide more options for interesting non-violent resolutions of encounters.Now if you are complaining about the presence of combat in an Fantasy RPG, it is like complaining that your gonna get hit when you practice medieval fencing.
helloIeldra2 wrote...
Never playing warriors in DA2, I don't know what you're talking about.philippe willaume wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Also, the waves actually come slower on casual in DA2. On higher difficulty levels, the waves come faster, giving you less time to react. On casual, there's sometimes even enough time between waves for combat to technically end and you to regenerate health and mana.Ieldra2 wrote...
Less so in DA2, because one of the hordes of trash enemies doesn't die any faster on Casual than on Normal. Here it's the number of enemies which takes time to kill.
yes i believe Sylvius is correct.
You need to understand that waves are a necessary mechanism for the combat to work for warrior. Waves mooks are stamina pit stops.
Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes. The cheat can interfere with story events though. That would be bad.we already killall from a console, so getting it buttonised is not the ultimate development effort, i would prefer if it was an instant resolve as Relmzmaster rather than a instantkill, but i am not that fussy about the implementation.
i think it is a good idea to have it for people that find combat tedious, for quick replay for a different import or having to big of a place.
IE having it is not taking anything away
Modifié par philippe willaume, 10 juillet 2013 - 11:06 .
Ieldra2 wrote...
Now if you are complaining about the presence of combat in an Fantasy RPG, it is like complaining that your gonna get hit when you practice medieval fencing.
LOL. I've been playing fantasy RPGs for about 25 years, and while the combat was rarely my favorite aspect, I also rarely complained about it to the extent I did about DA2's. Of course combat has always been a part of these games, and in the old games there was considerably more pointless random combat than in most modern games. In general, the development is going towards "make combat more meaningful" and that's how it should be. However, there are games like DX:HR which you can play almost without ever killing anyone. This would likely not be feasible for the kind of stories we're playing in the DA universe, but DA games could - and should - take inspiration from them and provide more options for interesting non-violent resolutions of encounters.
Modifié par philippe willaume, 10 juillet 2013 - 11:07 .
Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2013 - 11:09 .
I recall playing Wizardry 7 (1992) - you have fights every few steps, and about 95% of them are completely pointless. But I agree, games like Skyrim have tons of pointless combat as well. I think the reason for the impression that the older games had more of it is that (1) tightly-plotted RPGs where combat events are more a part of the story were more rare back then, and (2) that dialogue mechanics didn't exist or existed in a very rudimentary from back then.philippe willaume wrote...
i am not sure i agree with less pointless combat in modern game , I would have said the opposite ie modern game are full of creature that has no reason to exist other than being chopped off by the player but regardless I fully agree with with making the combat more meaningful and i would love options to resolves situations other than combat.
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