809 réponses à ce sujet

[Enigmatick]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Xerxes52 wrote...
While I wouldn't use it, there should be a "Narrative" difficulty for those who just want to get through the combat as quickly as possible.

This is not about reducing difficulty. This about reducing the time spent with combat. Often, one comes with the other, but with a combat design like DA2's the latter does not follow from the former. Thus, the wish to reduce the waves to one or to skip a combat encounter altogether.

 You're implying that the combat design will be a carbon copy of DA2's if that turns out to be the case then it's a loss for everyone.

[Ieldra]

The Hierophant wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Know what I've never understood? People who say no to something they do not have to partake in. Like seriously. Get over yourselves.

If combat is rendered optional in future games how much resources,and time would the devs spend in developing a feature that could be ignored?

Dialogue is skippable in Bioware games. Even so, considerable resources go into it. It's actually the most expensive part of games like DA2 or ME3.

[iOnlySignIn]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

It's called "rolling a mage".

Or, more generally, "play better".

[Realmzmaster]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Know what I've never understood? People who say no to something they do not have to partake in. Like seriously. Get over yourselves.

If combat is rendered optional in future games how much resources,and time would the devs spend in developing a feature that could be ignored?

Dialogue is skippable in Bioware games. Even so, considerable resources go into it. It's actually the most expensive part of games like DA2 or ME3.

The fear I think many are having is that quite a few gamers will use the option to ignore combat and that developers will not put as much effort into combat gameplay in future games. That means their gameplay experience will be diminished.

The autoresolve button did not have this problem because the party still had a chance to lose the encounter or a character. So the gamer still had to put effort into developing the party to have a good chance of winning the encounter. 
The autowin button simply allows complete skipping of any combat and you do not have to level up your party. You can basically finish the game at level one. 

Gamers are objecting because they do not wish to see a trend established and developers start ignoring combat.
That is my take on the situation.
As I stated as long as my enjoyment is not affected I do not care. It is when it is affact that I will have a problem with because the developers is slacking off on refining the combat aspect.

[Realmzmaster]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Know what I've never understood? People who say no to something they do not have to partake in. Like seriously. Get over yourselves.

If combat is rendered optional in future games how much resources,and time would the devs spend in developing a feature that could be ignored?

Dialogue is skippable in Bioware games. Even so, considerable resources go into it. It's actually the most expensive part of games like DA2 or ME3.

Dialogue is skippable but most gamers do not skip the dialogue on the first playthrough. The same could not be said for an autowin button.

[Xerxes52]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Xerxes52 wrote...
While I wouldn't use it, there should be a "Narrative" difficulty for those who just want to get through the combat as quickly as possible.

This is not about reducing difficulty. This about reducing the time spent with combat. Often, one comes with the other, but with a combat design like DA2's the latter does not follow from the former. Thus, the wish to reduce the waves to one or to skip a combat encounter altogether.

Hopefully wave based combat will be abandoned in DA:I, regardless of difficulty setting.

[syllogi]

If you've played a game several times already, and you don't love the combat, but enjoy the story (like my own feelings about DA2), I don't see anything wrong with wanting to rush through long portions of combat. I enjoyed the combat of DA:O on PC, but even I use Skip the Fade now on playthroughs, just to save time.

As a big fan of non-combat quest options, like puzzles, riddles, and mini games, I'd rather see those sort of things implemented (the stealth section of MotA, for example) than just taking out combat sequences, for the most part.

Maybe having a "story mode" unlocked after the first playthrough would be a good idea? It would be totally optional, and lots of games already have Nightmare challenge modes unlocked in a similar way.

[The Hierophant]

ledra2 wrote...

Dialogue is skippable in Bioware games. Even so, considerable resources go into it. It's actually the most expensive part of games like DA2 or ME3.

IIRC In DA2 only individual lines could be skipped, whereas in ME3 dialogue is auto resolved in Action Mode while Story Mode is super easy on combat.

Now that i see where you're coming from, a super easy mode where the player party could One Hit Kill non lieutenant or boss level enemies seems reasonable.

[The Hierophant]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The fear I think many are having is that quite a few gamers will use the option to ignore combat and that developers will not put as much effort into combat gameplay in future games. That means their gameplay experience will be diminished.

You hit the nail on the head in regards to the sentiment of my post.

Gamers are objecting because they do not wish to see a trend established and developers start ignoring combat. That is my take on the situation.
As I stated as long as my enjoyment is not affected I do not care. It is when it is affected that I will have a problem with because the developers is slacking off on refining the combat aspect.

Agreed.

[Tenshi]

Star fury wrote...

Go watch movie or play watch visual novel, if you don't like combat in RPG.

you have to read visual novel, not watch.

also i dont see reason to not make combat quick if players desires so. i really hate combat in dragon age. yes it was quite good. but after killing literally 3000 enemies in single playthrough it became quite boring. and im not exaggerating. there is more than 3000 enemies to kill in origins + awakening. which is beyond ridicilous.

[K_Tabris]

One quick way to resolve this is to enable cheats for combat, so if someone wants to skip, they press the right combinations.

The alternative is to make the game so all kinds of gamers can enjy the story: people who like stealth can sneak through, people who like combat can bludgeon through, and people who like quizzes can reason their way through. That probably would take too many resources though.

[SilentK]

I could see myself doing one or two PT:s in narrative mode when I just want to explore different story options. Hope that they will look on how it worked in ME3, did people use it there or do they feel that it would be a good investment.

First couple of PT:s in normal mode, maybe a hard mode if there is some class that I really just fall in love with. After that narrative mode would be a great option. And sometimes I really don't have much time for games. Then it would be great. Currently playing through yet another Hawke, this time on casual, just finished Legacy the last evening. Have very little time at the moment so narrative would have been great. Usually I really enjoy taking my time on my mage, fav-class, but then I would progress so slowly. Will switch back from casual when more free time is available.

[someguy1231]

Here's a radical suggestion: if you think Bioware's combat is bad, then instead of offering the option to skip it, maybe they should *GASP!* make the combat better!

Modifié par someguy1231, 06 juillet 2013 - 10:17 .

[someguy1231]

scyphozoa wrote...

sigh, I am so sick of seeing the "its a game not a movie" argument. Video games are not defined solely by their gameplay.

Actually, yes they are, because the moment a video game has no gameplay, it is, by definition, no longer a video game.

[AlanC9]

Adventure games don't have combat. They are still games.

[Ryzaki]

Also gameplay =/= combat.

[Enigmatick]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adventure games don't have combat. They are still games.

Define adventure games.

[mumba]

Go into game files, change your damage output to a trillion or so to one hit everything.

Win

[someguy1231]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adventure games don't have combat. They are still games.

Where did I say that the only gameplay games can have is combat?

[LinksOcarina]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adventure games don't have combat. They are still games.

To be fair, adventure games are definied as games because their gameplay is tailored for linear progression and puzzle solving.

[Olmerto]

Combat is the price you pay to earn the right to the story. If you don't work, you don't "eat". It's the way games are. Otherwise, it's not a game. Bioware isn't out to provide you an interactive movie. They make gameplay for you to master, then reward you with a story. Take away that element and you no longer have a game.

Allowing combat haters to skip through all combat gives you the reward without working for it. They already give you an [incredibly] Easy mode or Casual mode. What more do you want? Do you want "achievements", too, for your valiant efforts? Quit whining and beat the game if you want your story. That's what games, specifically cRPGs, have required since the beginning. Stop acting as if this is all about YOU.

[LinksOcarina]

someguy1231 wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

sigh, I am so sick of seeing the "its a game not a movie" argument. Video games are not defined solely by their gameplay.

Actually, yes they are, because the moment a video game has no gameplay, it is, by definition, no longer a video game.

But the obvious question then is this really, what mechanically definies a RPG experience as a video game? 

For a company like Bethesda you can say its world exploration and power fantasy combat. For BioWare, it was interpersonal relationships, character interaction and teamwork,  for Square, its cinematic quality and visual presentation of the story.

They all make RPG's though in different styles. Gameplay is a weighted term, because it can mean pretty much anything really. Hell the interactivity of cut-scenes and dialouge in Dragon Age is a gameplay element on its own that we see all the time. I guess in the end this really boils down to personal taste of what the consumer enjoys, versus what is proper.