809 réponses à ce sujet

[Olmerto]

I would add that dialogue is skippable in games because it is the assumed "reward" that you're skipping. If a player doesn't want the story, only the work, then fine. That's the difference between combat and story skipping. You always have to work to win the game.

[Hi my name is Ryan]

someguy1231 wrote...

Here's a radical suggestion: if you think Bioware's combat is bad, then instead of offering the option to skip it, maybe they should *GASP!* make the combat better!

Bioware can't put effort into the combat! They have ****ty melodramatic romances and contrived B-movie plotlines to write!

Modifié par Hi my name is Ryan, 06 juillet 2013 - 11:22 .

[Maria Caliban]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dialogue is skippable in Bioware games. Even so, considerable resources go into it. It's actually the most expensive part of games like DA2 or ME3.

No, dialogue is not 'the most expensive' part of the game. Not by a long shot.

[Sister Goldring]

Olmert wrote...

Combat is the price you pay to earn the right to the story. If you don't work, you don't "eat". It's the way games are. Otherwise, it's not a game. Bioware isn't out to provide you an interactive movie. They make gameplay for you to master, then reward you with a story. Take away that element and you no longer have a game.

Allowing combat haters to skip through all combat gives you the reward without working for it. They already give you an [incredibly] Easy mode or Casual mode. What more do you want? Do you want "achievements", too, for your valiant efforts? Quit whining and beat the game if you want your story. That's what games, specifically cRPGs, have required since the beginning. Stop acting as if this is all about YOU.

So they haven't suffered enough to be entitled to hear the end of the story?  Well it's a new view point, I'll give you that.  

[Gotholhorakh]

Sister Goldring wrote...

Olmert wrote...

Combat is the price you pay to earn the right to the story. If you don't work, you don't "eat". It's the way games are. Otherwise, it's not a game. Bioware isn't out to provide you an interactive movie. They make gameplay for you to master, then reward you with a story. Take away that element and you no longer have a game.

Allowing combat haters to skip through all combat gives you the reward without working for it. They already give you an [incredibly] Easy mode or Casual mode. What more do you want? Do you want "achievements", too, for your valiant efforts? Quit whining and beat the game if you want your story. That's what games, specifically cRPGs, have required since the beginning. Stop acting as if this is all about YOU.

So they haven't suffered enough to be entitled to hear the end of the story?  Well it's a new view point, I'll give you that.  

It's not a new viewpoint really, if we remove the notion of "suffering" for a second, then it's how games in general work. Rewards, placed just perfectly to make gameplay rewarding and/or addictive. Sometimes also gameplay which leverages your previous rewards - especially in RPGs.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 06 juillet 2013 - 11:40 .

[Olmerto]

Sister Goldring wrote...

So they haven't suffered enough to be entitled to hear the end of the story?  Well it's a new view point, I'll give you that.  

lmao if the gameplay to you is "suffering", then the "option" for you isn't to skip it, it's to find a new "hobby".

[tanisha__unknown]

I'd like that option. In ME3 you actually had the possiblity to play the game in story mode (You could do the Marauder Shields: grab a Phaeton and kill anything that comes close with a couple of shots, but I digress) and I'd like something like that for DA3, too.

I liked the combat in DA2 better than in DAO, mostly because it was much faster paced and I enjoyed the games for story, not for combat. Enemies died quicker, on the doenside you had a lot of waves and when you strawled through Kirkwall at night, things got really boring because behind every adge the nect 0815 horde of enemies would wait.

So yes, I'd like to see it implemented as an option.

[Ridwan]

Seriously folks, part of the charm of the rpg is the combat. Getting new loot, gaining experience and putting points in the stats to make your character better in combat and so on. Why skip that?

[Nightwriter]

Oh, are they taking requests? I would just like the combat to be rapturous videogaming ecstasy, thanks. Like even in replays. The kind of ecstasy that sucks you into the game and suddenly it's twelve hours later and you realize you've forgotten to feed yourself.

No pressure.

[tanisha__unknown]

M25105 wrote...

Seriously folks, part of the charm of the rpg is the combat. Getting new loot, gaining experience and putting points in the stats to make your character better in combat and so on. Why skip that?

Planescape Torment is one of THE classic PC RPGs and combat definitely wasn't what made the game appealing.

As for the leveling aspect: the dialogues and choices provided MUCH more XP than the combats.

[Gotholhorakh]

I think games without gameplay might lack something. Sorry if crazy.

[LinksOcarina]

Jinx1720 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Seriously folks, part of the charm of the rpg is the combat. Getting new loot, gaining experience and putting points in the stats to make your character better in combat and so on. Why skip that?

Planescape Torment is one of THE classic PC RPGs and combat definitely wasn't what made the game appealing.

As for the leveling aspect: the dialogues and choices provided MUCH more XP than the combats.

Planescape was also a strange game to begin with, its appeal was its world moreso the mechanics, which admittingly is why I like Dragon Age so much as well...

[Nightwriter]

M25105 wrote...

Seriously folks, part of the charm of the rpg is the combat. Getting new loot, gaining experience and putting points in the stats to make your character better in combat and so on. Why skip that?

My favorite gameplay systems allow skill progression to affect more than combat though.

[Sister Goldring]

Olmert wrote...

Sister Goldring wrote...

So they haven't suffered enough to be entitled to hear the end of the story?  Well it's a new view point, I'll give you that.  

lmao if the gameplay to you is "suffering", then the "option" for you isn't to skip it, it's to find a new "hobby".

I like combat so the inclusion/exculsion of the feature will have absolutely no impact on my gaming experience whatsoever.  I just fail to see how an option to allow those gamers who would appreciate a way to lessen the quantity of combat they are required to play in order to progress the story would be for problem for me in my game.

I don't think the skies will fall, I don't think the developers will suddenly say 'well stuff combat mechanics, let's get waffles today instead.'  I don't think ANYTHING would happen except that a subset of players would have a more enjoyable experience and I LIKE that idea.

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 07 juillet 2013 - 12:12 .

[Sister Goldring]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

It's not a new viewpoint really, if we remove the notion of "suffering" for a second, then it's how games in general work. Rewards, placed just perfectly to make gameplay rewarding and/or addictive. Sometimes also gameplay which leverages your previous rewards - especially in RPGs.

Yep, I agree with you and I would find my enjoyment of the game lessened if I cut combat corners (so I don't turn down the difficulty when the going gets tough or cheat myself into immortality) but what do I care if someone else wants to play their game differently.  All things remaining equal in my experience why shouldn't they be accommodated?   

[PsychoBlonde]

Olmert wrote...

Sister Goldring wrote...

So they haven't suffered enough to be entitled to hear the end of the story?  Well it's a new view point, I'll give you that.  

lmao if the gameplay to you is "suffering", then the "option" for you isn't to skip it, it's to find a new "hobby".

Um, no.  No matter how brilliant the gameplay, eventually it can get stale and many people would like an alternative so they can continue enjoying the factors that AREN'T stale to them.  I recently replayed Origins via the expedient of using the console to level all of my characters to maximum and then playing on Nightmare difficulty--it was actually a lot of fun and a new way to enjoy the game.  Combat in ALL of Bioware's games tends to pall for me halfway through my FIRST PLAYTHROUGH so I turn it all the way down to Casual just to get on with things.  I don't expect everything in every game to continue to appeal to me at all times, nor do I think that I exist in order to serve the game so I "should" be required to play it in a specific way.

The easiest way to do this sort of "story mode" thing without actually instituting a "skip combat" button would be to insert a mechanism for doing what I did above there--let people select to play max-leveled characters from the get-go without using the console.  Or have a variety of options along those lines available at character creation.

It'd also be really nice if Bioware would make an effort to have actual gameplay that WASN'T just COMBAT. 

[Gotholhorakh]

Sister Goldring wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

It's not a new viewpoint really, if we remove the notion of "suffering" for a second, then it's how games in general work. Rewards, placed just perfectly to make gameplay rewarding and/or addictive. Sometimes also gameplay which leverages your previous rewards - especially in RPGs.

Yep, I agree with you and I would find my enjoyment of the game lessened if I cut combat corners (so I don't turn down the difficulty when the going gets tough or cheat myself into immortality) but what do I care if someone else wants to play their game differently.  All things remaining equal in my experience why shouldn't they be accommodated?   

Yeah - I'm definitely in this school myself. Choice for others is good if that would be great for them, even if everything about it sucks from my point of view  - proviso being that stuff I hate isn't forced on me! (and I've got to admit, this wouldn't be my bag at all - would gut the point out of the game for me)

Choice... if implemented well... good in RPGs.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 07 juillet 2013 - 12:44 .

[Sister Goldring]

Gotholhorakh 

Yeah - I'm definitely in this school myself. Choice for others is good if that would be great for them, even if everything about it sucks from my point of view  - proviso being that stuff I hate isn't forced on me! (and I've got to admit, this wouldn't be my bag at all - would gut the point out of the game for me)

Choice... if implemented well... good in RPGs.

I knew I liked you.  

[GithCheater]

Perhaps those who insist that combat be mandatory for everyone should find a new hobby and go play Call of Duty.

[Boycott Bioware]

Ieldra2 wrote...
What the hell is wrong with you? I asked for the OPTION to get combat over with, NOT to remove it algother and not to make it go fast for everyone.

If I had to take you people seriously, I'd ask Bioware to make dialogue unskippable next. Perhaps then you'll understand what this is all about.

Having an option to skip combat is the same with remove combat. Why want combat while we can skip it?

No, we cannot skip dialogues, we still have to choose dialogues and face consequences of our choice.

Edit : Consequence of suck in combat is dead and have to reload, consequence to choose some dialogue option is varried. Option to skip combat is AUTO WIN button, what the hell? So you saying "we want auto win button because we suck at combat", if there is auto win button why want combat?

Edit 2 : In Total War we can skip combat but it being calculated with what we do, how we manage our troops, the upgrades, what types of our troops vs enemy troops, the strategy, the weather and ect ect ect, we click the button, the computer calculate we win or loose. Still it need strategy and "playing"

Modifié par Qistina, 07 juillet 2013 - 01:52 .

[someguy1231]

GithCheater wrote...

Perhaps those who insist that combat be mandatory for everyone should find a new hobby and go play Call of Duty.

Oh, where do I begin...

First of all, Call of Duty is still a video game, just as Bioware's RPGs are. Saying we should "find a new hobby" isn't entirely accurate, since it's still the same pasttime, just with a difference genre of game.

Secondly, how would you like it if somebody said something like "those who insist combat should be optional should go play Heavy Rain or some other visual novel or interactive movie"?

Thirdly, Call of Duty is an FPS; this is an RPG board. There are tons of RPGs with a big focus on combat, particularly action-RPGs like Diablo or Dark Souls. Combat gameplay in those games is very different from the combat gameplay you'd get in CoD. Your retort makes absolutely no sense (assuming that the "just go play X" retort is a valid argument, which I don't think it is).

Fourthly, Bioware's RPGs have always had mandatory combat. Using your logic, Bioware's RPGs never should have taken off in the first place, because their potential fanbase would've been too busy playing CoD.

Your whole comment comes across as a pathetic strawman with no merit whatsoever. Try again if you want to convince people here optional combat is a good idea.

[slimgrin]

GithCheater wrote...

Perhaps those who insist that combat be mandatory for everyone should find a new hobby and go play Call of Duty.

Or you could play an adventure game.

[Shaigunjoe]

Filament wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Seriously folks, part of the charm of the rpg is the combat. Getting new loot, gaining experience and putting points in the stats to make your character better in combat and so on. Why skip that?

My favorite gameplay systems allow skill progression to affect more than combat though.

Yes, my favorite part of FTL isn't blowing up ships and getting loot, but using a special blue option based on the abilities of my ship/crew and getting loot without a fight.

I also wanted to mention FTL, as I feel like that game had combat that was fun to play over and over again, and more importantly, it was fast, each encounter was usually less than a minute.  It was more intense too, though thats what you get with perma death.

Anyway, on topic, because DA2 esepcially had really boring/repetative combat, I think this would be a good idea.  Even playing through the game as a different class doesn't really help DA2 much as far as the combat is concerned.

[Neon Rising Winter]

While I'd never use it, I can't see how optional combat is a bad thing in the majority of encounters. It's optional, those who want it will use it, those who won't won't. Much of the argument against it has an air of well if someone can't play or doesn't enjoy the aspects of the game that are important to me I don't think they should be allowed to play it at all, ignoring the fact that other aspects of the game are far more important to some players.

The argument I can see against completely optional combat is that, in some encounters, primarily the boss fight types, it ties in to the story and gives a sense of the accomplishment of your character. If you remove these fights too I think you'd need some sort of cutscene fight to convey that feeling, and then you're into more resources. If you made only those fights non skippable, anyone who has skipped what's gone before is probably stuck at this point.

A compromise would seem to be a much easier easy mode which makes the combat simpler and quicker without losing the flavour of it from the game entirely.