186 réponses à ce sujet

[dragondreamer]

HiroVoid wrote...

Problem with that is unless the alternate form is simply using a regular model of one of the species, extra resources and space is more limited by that demon's alternate form.

I do admit it would be interesting if the model changed depending on who the PC flirted or romanced though, and the female form was the default.

Yeah, I know.  I'm just saying it'd be interesting if there were both male and female Desire Demons you could encounter.  Lots of talk about Sucuubus on the thread, but it overlooks that there are also Incubus, which is pretty much the same thing except male.  I presume Desire Demons don't have an actual sex since spirits and demons don't have a real physical form; it's all illusion.  Your pc could be seeing anything the demon thinks you want to see.  But on the player side of things, I've certainly wondered why those things always take the form of a woman when I'm playing a gay pc.  Like I said before, it could be responding to someone else in the party,  but still.

That last part is why I don't think it would even be necessary to change the model based on your pc's romance, if they have one.  Just a mixed bag of encounters would be nice.  Besides, what if your pc swings both ways?  I don't think it needs to be overcomplicated.

[Taint Master]

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

But there is a certain level where politics does become important in games.

Imagine if you weren't allowed to make a black pc!

You can make a black PC, but how many other characters in either DA were black?  Or Asian, or Latin?  Etc etc.

It's just a game.

[So 64 Flogs walk into a bar]

DeadlyHaven wrote...

Maybe the desire demon enjoys looking sexy. Ever consider that, huh?

I think you may have entirely missed the point.

Or I'm an idiot and you're simply joking

[berelinde]

Taint Master wrote...

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

But there is a certain level where politics does become important in games.

Imagine if you weren't allowed to make a black pc!

You can make a black PC, but how many other characters in either DA were black?  Or Asian, or Latin?  Etc etc.

It's just a game.

If that were the case, then just make the desire demons male. If it's all the same, there's no reason not to.

[nightscrawl]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Third, regardless of what the gaming media would like to believe not every game has to be a social commentary dealing with politics in the real world and not every collection of pixels needs to be an upstanding, rational, politically correct, and respectable representation of some sexuality, gender, ethnicity, race, et al.

You should watch David's GDC presentation.

[Ridwan]

You guys and your freaking political correctness and sexism. Listen buddy, men love women, men are in general more powerful than women, when it comes to positions of power, physical strength and so on. Ergo men are the primary target for the desire demons to influence. Cue the PC brigade.

[dorianpervus]

KallianaTabris wrote...

Because even straight women acknowledge the female body is more pleasing to look at than a male body.

I agree with Rawgrim, though, it is probably just based on a succubus. Maybe they could introduce a male version or androgynous for certain situations.

This.

[dragondreamer]

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

KallianaTabris wrote...

Because even straight women acknowledge the female body is more pleasing to look at than a male body.

I agree with Rawgrim, though, it is probably just based on a succubus. Maybe they could introduce a male version or androgynous for certain situations.

This.

And some not-so-straight women don't always agree.

[So 64 Flogs walk into a bar]

M25105 wrote...

You guys and your freaking political correctness and sexism. Listen buddy, men love women, men are in general more powerful than women, when it comes to positions of power, physical strength and so on. Ergo men are the primary target for the desire demons to influence. Cue the PC brigade.

Most of the people we've seen be influenced by desire demons aren't in positions of power.

In fact the only one who was in a relative position of power was a woman.

Oh and men love women? Hmm I didn't know that I did, thanks for telling me!

Im so sick of seeing these 'omg people disagree with me they are so stupid and PC lol' points. Grow up.

Modifié par So 64 Flogs walk into a bar, 06 juillet 2013 - 05:09 .

[slimgrin]

They are based on the succubus myth, it's that simple. I thought they were one of the better character designs in Origins.

[Taint Master]

simfamSP wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

But there is a certain level where politics does become important in games.

Imagine if you weren't allowed to make a black pc!

You can make a black PC, but how many other characters in either DA were black?  Or Asian, or Latin?  Etc etc.

It's just a game.

If you're gonna look at the medium with that attitude don't get upset when a character is ****e, a narrative is clunky or the visuals are awful.

Afterall, it's "just a game."

I don't follow.  All of those are important parts of making a good game.  Representation of every minority group, regardless of setting, isn't.

Modifié par Taint Master, 06 juillet 2013 - 05:20 .

[IceHawk-181]

nightscrawl wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Third, regardless of what the gaming media would like to believe not every game has to be a social commentary dealing with politics in the real world and not every collection of pixels needs to be an upstanding, rational, politically correct, and respectable representation of some sexuality, gender, ethnicity, race, et al.

You should watch David's GDC presentation.

I am plentifully aware of what DG is and what he thinks he does within the medium. I would also argue that an individual who characterizes disagreement with his decisions as the fanbases' "difficulty in wrapping their heads around" these uber-complex topics little more than self-gratifying egoism and that the decision to input sexual politics into games has actually degraded, not improved, Companion Arcs in each and every Bioware production since ME1.
 
I would prefer the fictional medium to not be bound by progressive politics and have characters ranging from ditzy sexualized women and boorish hulking man-idiots to deep and intelligent moral compasses based on the dictums of plot without worrying whatsoever that some Sophomore coming out of their first taste of Gender Studies is going to take offense and post a Youtube video decrying the overly sexualized nature of a video game character or the lack of homosexual romance options in a product marketed to heterosexual male teenagers.
 
The assumption of responsibility for a Progressive Cultural Impetus on the part of the Gaming Media and certain Developers is part of the reason why I think quality AAA titles are harder to come by these days.
 
When an amazing game like The Last of Us is attacked for not doing "enough" to advance positive female characterizations or we start pretending that making NPCs PC-Sexual is somehow an improvement over more in-depth and independent characterizations we have a problem.
 
Case in point: The Desire Demon
 
It is meant to be a sexualized female form in an effort to co-opt the mythological conception of the Succubus and play upon the normalized reaction of attractiveness that the principally male heterosexual demographic playing the game will have.

It serves its purpose and does so quite well.

[slimgrin]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Third, regardless of what the gaming media would like to believe not every game has to be a social commentary dealing with politics in the real world and not every collection of pixels needs to be an upstanding, rational, politically correct, and respectable representation of some sexuality, gender, ethnicity, race, et al.

You should watch David's GDC presentation.

I am plentifully aware of what DG is and what he thinks he does within the medium. I would also argue that an individual who characterizes disagreement with his decisions as the fanbases' "difficulty in wrapping their heads around" these uber-complex topics little more than self-gratifying egoism and that the decision to input sexual politics into games has actually degraded, not improved, Companion Arcs in each and every Bioware production since ME1.
 
I would prefer the fictional medium to not be bound by progressive politics and have characters ranging from ditzy sexualized women and boorish hulking man-idiots to deep and intelligent moral compasses based on the dictums of plot without worrying whatsoever that some Sophomore coming out of their first taste of Gender Studies is going to take offense and post a Youtube video decrying the overly sexualized nature of a video game character or the lack of homosexual romance options in a product marketed to heterosexual male teenagers.
 
The assumption of responsibility for a Progressive Cultural Impetus on the part of the Gaming Media and certain Developers is part of the reason why I think quality AAA titles are harder to come by these days.
 
When an amazing game like The Last of Us is attacked for not doing "enough" to advance positive female characterizations or we start pretending that making NPCs PC-Sexual is somehow an improvement over more in-depth and independent characterizations we have a problem.
 
Case in point: The Desire Demon
 
It is meant to be a sexualized female form in an effort to co-opt the mythological conception of the Succubus and play upon the normalized reaction of attractiveness that the principally male heterosexual demographic playing the game will have.

It serves its purpose and does so quite well.

This is a slam dunk.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I wouldn't call a pride demon agendered.

[So 64 Flogs walk into a bar]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I wouldn't call a pride demon agendered.

Go on

[Boycott Bioware]

I think Desire Demon should be like Boggart in Harry Potter, no one know how Boggart look like, it depend on what people fear, if fear spider, it look like spider and so on...so in similar way no one know how Desire Demon look like because the Demon appear depend on what people desire....If desire a pretty woman, it appear as a pretty woman, if desire a handsome man, it appear as a handsome man, if desire a Ferrari, it appear as Ferrari, and so on but no one know the original form of Desire Demon

Edit : Oh yeah, the spell to fight it should be "RIDICULOUS!"

Modifié par Qistina, 06 juillet 2013 - 05:38 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I wouldn't call a pride demon agendered.

Go on

Well they look pretty much clearly male to me. Most of them do.

[ObserverStatus]

Greylycantrope wrote...
*shrugs* cause everyone likes boobs and horny women?

I see what you did there.

[Liamv2]

I agree with the idea that it is based on the succubus

[Plaintiff]

[quote]IceHawk-181 wrote...
Third, regardless of what the gaming media would like to believe not every game has to be a social commentary dealing with politics in the real world and not every collection of pixels needs to be an upstanding, rational, politically correct, and respectable representation of some sexuality, gender, ethnicity, race, et al.[/quote]
[/quote]
Games are social commentary, by their very nature, and as such they are legitimate targets for criticism. Every media product is.

The games that get made reflect and impact the society in which they were produced, and "we just didn't think about it" isn't an acceptable excuse. If you fail to think about what your product is saying, then you deserve every single criticism that is lobbied against it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 juillet 2013 - 05:40 .

[So 64 Flogs walk into a bar]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I wouldn't call a pride demon agendered.

Go on

Well they look pretty much clearly male to me. Most of them do.

In what way does it look male?

Modifié par So 64 Flogs walk into a bar, 06 juillet 2013 - 05:44 .

[Secretlyapotato]

Does it really matter what a desire demon looks like? It can just shapeshift into whatever it wants anyway.