186 réponses à ce sujet

[Kallimachus]

SpazzKidJake wrote...

 I might just be making this up but each demon has resembled a type of sin almost. 

• Rage Demon-Burning hatred and angrer the agressive type of demon. WRATH.
  
• Sloth Demon- Lazy Monotone doesn't do much. SLOTH.
  
• Hunger Demon- Skeletons, Devouring corpses. Desiring human flesh due to the lack of a body. GLUTTONY/ ENVY. 
• Sylvans Trees- They show and extreme jelousy of other living things.ENVY.
  
• Pride- Monstrously powerful. PRIDE.
  
• Desire Demon- Women/Succubus. Fufilling one's true desire, feeding off one's desires. LUST.
• Abbominations- Those who gave in, power hungry.  GREED
  

The desire demon reminds me of Lilith; A succubus basically the incarnation of lust. It dates back to the Adam and Eve kind of story. The women holding a sort of power over men and using their lust or desires against them.

So long story short they demons could be described by their sin representation. Lust/Desire being the obvious one most commonly reffered to by sexual lust or desire of power, fame ect. Although as stated above they could have used both female and male models for it; Succubus and Incubus.

Abominations are not demons. They are simply humans possessed by demons (or spirits, for that matter). Anders was an abomination possessed by vengence/justice, Uldred was possessed by pride. In the same vein corpses can be possessd by any demon (Justice occupies one for a while), and presumably the same is true for the trees.

Moreover, as I said before, the fact that misogynistic myths exist in Judeo-Christian tradition does not mean they need to be used in DA.

[Ridwan]

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

M25105 wrote...

You guys and your freaking political correctness and sexism. Listen buddy, men love women, men are in general more powerful than women, when it comes to positions of power, physical strength and so on. Ergo men are the primary target for the desire demons to influence. Cue the PC brigade.

Most of the people we've seen be influenced by desire demons aren't in positions of power.

In fact the only one who was in a relative position of power was a woman.

Oh and men love women? Hmm I didn't know that I did, thanks for telling me!

Im so sick of seeing these 'omg people disagree with me they are so stupid and PC lol' points. Grow up.

No one called you stupid, maybe you should take your own advice and grow up. Dragon Age 2, got worse when it came to character interaction cause it was so bloody PC.

If you can't understand why women are condidered desirable and why men run things in general, then maybe you should brush up history or something. I know it's a fantasy game and all that, but other than Anora (who wins by defeault due to Cailan's death, and the knight commander) every big player in Dragon Age are men. Proof? The landsmeet.

[Plaintiff]

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

[Kallimachus]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

Filament wrote...

I seem to recall at least a couple female pride demons, such as the Baroness.

As soon as the baronness reverts to her demonic form she becomes male. Both her form and her voice are male.

I wouldn't say it's male just because it's deep, it's simply a scary demonic voice.

The desire demon has a similar voice that can be heard subtley in the backround whenever she talks.

Both voices used in ALL demons except desire are male. But since you don't want to realize this here is the list of the voice actors:

Sloth demon: Kieth Ferguson
Rage demon: Mark Meer (who also acted for unspecified demons)
Orphanage demon: Keith Szarabajka

Desire demon: Jeannie Ellis, Kath Soucie, April Banigan (Kitty)

Could not find other actors (they are marked as "additional voices") but the trend is clear.

[Ridwan]

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Games based in world where lords rule over the peasants and people fight with swords and bows should have a natural sexism to it. Playing a female character should involve extra dialouge and such too, to show that the character can rise above everything.

In games like Mass Effect or games based on todays time, it's naturally that there wouldn't be much (if any sexism).

[Star fury]

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Yes. Problem?

[Tarek]

its nice to know that in real like I can slap it in the face and tell it to bugger off

unless its an incubus then I'm screwed

[Beerfish]

The desire demon should have had the body of a large piece of pumpkin pie with whip cream on top.

[Airdeen]

M25105 wrote...

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

M25105 wrote...

You guys and your freaking political correctness and sexism. Listen buddy, men love women, men are in general more powerful than women, when it comes to positions of power, physical strength and so on. Ergo men are the primary target for the desire demons to influence. Cue the PC brigade.

Most of the people we've seen be influenced by desire demons aren't in positions of power.

In fact the only one who was in a relative position of power was a woman.

Oh and men love women? Hmm I didn't know that I did, thanks for telling me!

Im so sick of seeing these 'omg people disagree with me they are so stupid and PC lol' points. Grow up.

No one called you stupid, maybe you should take your own advice and grow up. Dragon Age 2, got worse when it came to character interaction cause it was so bloody PC.

If you can't understand why women are condidered desirable and why men run things in general, then maybe you should brush up history or something. I know it's a fantasy game and all that, but other than Anora (who wins by defeault due to Cailan's death, and the knight commander) every big player in Dragon Age are men. Proof? The landsmeet.

Not all of them are men. Meredith was a woman, the Grand Enchanter is a woman (Fiona), Orlais has an empress, in Orzammar there are some high up female nobles and the current Paragon is a woman. Flemeth is a pretty powerful person. Cassandra is someone to be reckoned with. The Divine is always a woman, meaning that the chantry is led by a woman (imagine the Pope always being a woman). I'm sure there are examples I haven't thought of as well.

I think DA is doing a better job than most games at including persons of power of both genders. It could be better still, and that would be good.

[Plaintiff]

M25105 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Games based in world where lords rule over the peasants and people fight with swords and bows should have a natural sexism to it. Playing a female character should involve extra dialouge and such too, to show that the character can rise above everything.

In games like Mass Effect or games based on todays time, it's naturally that there wouldn't be much (if any sexism).

Dragon Age is set in a universe where women govern the dominant religion, The Chantry, which worships a female messiah, Andraste. The most powerful character in the known world, Empress Celene, is a woman, and there are many female rulers elsewhere, like Fiona, who is Grand Enchanter, and the female Banns and Arls in Ferelden. Thedas also has female folk heroes, like Aveline.

Why would it be "naturally" sexist, just because it follows a basic feudal heirarchy of power?

[Kallimachus]

Star fury wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Yes. Problem?

Big problem, and you are just an example of it.

[Plaintiff]

Star fury wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Yes. Problem?

Obviously.

[Ridwan]

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Games based in world where lords rule over the peasants and people fight with swords and bows should have a natural sexism to it. Playing a female character should involve extra dialouge and such too, to show that the character can rise above everything.

In games like Mass Effect or games based on todays time, it's naturally that there wouldn't be much (if any sexism).

Dragon Age is set in a universe where women govern the dominant religion, The Chantry, which worships a female messiah, Andraste. The most powerful character in the known world, Empress Celene, is a woman, and there are many female rulers elsewhere, like Fiona, who is Grand Enchanter, and the female Banns and Arls in Ferelden. Thedas also has female folk heroes, like Aveline.

Why would it be "naturally" sexist, just because it follows a basic feudal heirarchy of power?

And yet that same place where the Empress rules has all male knights raping women left and right, cause they can. And in the Landsmeet I can't recall more than one woman.

Joan de Arc of France led an army against the English, because of that you think sexism stopped in France? You think because Queen Elizabeth the first was a woman there wasn't any sexism in England?

Modifié par M25105, 06 juillet 2013 - 06:49 .

[PsychoBlonde]

There isn't a desire demon in either game that offers anyone sex, though, so I doubt the apparent femininity of the desire demon is some kind of statement that only women are desirable. I think it is more due to the fact that women are viewed as being more vulnerable and sympathetic, and when you're trying to play on someone's desires so you can drain them dry they will be more likely to let their guard down if they view you as weak, nurturing, or caring. The desire demons who afflict people generally come across that way: let me HELP you. Let me TAKE CARE of you. We'll worry about the price later . . .

The other demons don't get mileage out of vulnerability but out of various efforts to deny it (pride, rage, hunger) so it wouldn't make sense for them to take on a feminine aspect. Nobody trusts a vain, angry, grasping woman, but in men these are often viewed as positive traits.

[Silfren]

Rawgrim wrote...

I don`t think there are male or female versions of demons. Its not like they make babies and whatsnot like humans do. Female demons become desire demons. Male demons become rage demons and others. Its just the way the demons work in Thedas. or...beyond Thedas, would be the correct way of putting it.

If there are no female or male versions of demons, it cannot follow that female demons become desire demons, and male demons become the other types.  Either male/female exists among demons or it doesn't.  I say it doesn't.  The point is even made in the codex on the desire demon that the person writing about it only referred to it as "her" due to his own perceptions.

[Plaintiff]

M25105 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Games based in world where lords rule over the peasants and people fight with swords and bows should have a natural sexism to it. Playing a female character should involve extra dialouge and such too, to show that the character can rise above everything.

In games like Mass Effect or games based on todays time, it's naturally that there wouldn't be much (if any sexism).

Dragon Age is set in a universe where women govern the dominant religion, The Chantry, which worships a female messiah, Andraste. The most powerful character in the known world, Empress Celene, is a woman, and there are many female rulers elsewhere, like Fiona, who is Grand Enchanter, and the female Banns and Arls in Ferelden. Thedas also has female folk heroes, like Aveline.

Why would it be "naturally" sexist, just because it follows a basic feudal heirarchy of power?

And yet that same place where the Empress rules has all male knights raping women left and right, cause they can. And in the Landsmeet I can't recall more than one woman.

Well, so? Rape occurs in the Circles also, but that is not indicative of systemic misogyny in the Circles. Rape can happen anywhere, any time. You have to find a causal link between societal attitudes and instances of rape. Rape is an indicator of a terrible person, not of a terrible society. And females can rape too.

There is at least one other female noble in the Awakening expansion.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 juillet 2013 - 06:52 .

[Airdeen]

M25105 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

So... because society is sexist, games should be too, and anyone who doesn't like it can just **** off.

That about the size of it?

Games based in world where lords rule over the peasants and people fight with swords and bows should have a natural sexism to it. Playing a female character should involve extra dialouge and such too, to show that the character can rise above everything.

In games like Mass Effect or games based on todays time, it's naturally that there wouldn't be much (if any sexism).

There is no rule saying that a game set in a medieval-ish world has to be sexist. DA is refreshing since no one in Thedas care if you're a woman or gay or whatever. I can't remember there being any dialogue or anything in game commenting on my character being something special because she is a woman (I don't always play a female character and I haven't noticed any difference). 

[Kallimachus]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

There isn't a desire demon in either game that offers anyone sex, though, so I doubt the apparent femininity of the desire demon is some kind of statement that only women are desirable. I think it is more due to the fact that women are viewed as being more vulnerable and sympathetic, and when you're trying to play on someone's desires so you can drain them dry they will be more likely to let their guard down if they view you as weak, nurturing, or caring. The desire demons who afflict people generally come across that way: let me HELP you. Let me TAKE CARE of you. We'll worry about the price later . . .

The other demons don't get mileage out of vulnerability but out of various efforts to deny it (pride, rage, hunger) so it wouldn't make sense for them to take on a feminine aspect. Nobody trusts a vain, angry, grasping woman, but in men these are often viewed as positive traits.

Are you serous? A mostly naked woman who continually caresses her breasts evokes in you a sense of vulnerability and sympathy? Tell me of a single person who would turn to such a woman for help?

[Plaintiff]

Kallimachus wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

There isn't a desire demon in either game that offers anyone sex, though, so I doubt the apparent femininity of the desire demon is some kind of statement that only women are desirable. I think it is more due to the fact that women are viewed as being more vulnerable and sympathetic, and when you're trying to play on someone's desires so you can drain them dry they will be more likely to let their guard down if they view you as weak, nurturing, or caring. The desire demons who afflict people generally come across that way: let me HELP you. Let me TAKE CARE of you. We'll worry about the price later . . .

The other demons don't get mileage out of vulnerability but out of various efforts to deny it (pride, rage, hunger) so it wouldn't make sense for them to take on a feminine aspect. Nobody trusts a vain, angry, grasping woman, but in men these are often viewed as positive traits.

Are you serous? A mostly naked woman who continually caresses her breasts evokes in you a sense of vulnerability and sympathy? Tell me of a single person who would turn to such a woman for help?

I've heard tell of men who can literally die from blue balls.

I've yet to see it for myself, but they assure me it's a serious concern.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 juillet 2013 - 06:54 .

[SpazzKidJake]

 Alright, so because they demons chose to possess something it doesn't make it a demon. Fair enough, but it still doesn't change what it represents.

As to Anders being an abomination it is arguable because he could be considered an apostate more then anything. When I was using the word Abomination. I was referring to the demonic looking creatures in game since we were discussing demons. 

But for the sake of being completely unreasonable and making ant hills into mountains. Why not complain that every character who was male didn't have a female voice actors or every female character didn't voice male voice actors. The voice actors chosen to represent the character don't represent the character's sex. 

Do Demons even have a sex? Rage demons take a fiery form, It lacks any sexual referance. But because desire demons show breast it is female? For all you know beneath the bit of coverage shown there could be more then you think. So maybe its both, does it matter?

To be honest it shouldn't matter what they look like, would it be nice if they had tossed in an incubus to be fair and give to obvious figures of male and female with the desire demon. Sure did they, not yet. It is possible. But in the end its a game, you can't please everyone.

Modifié par SpazzKidJake, 06 juillet 2013 - 06:57 .

[Secretlyapotato]

Kallimachus wrote...

Secretlyapotato wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

Filament wrote...

I seem to recall at least a couple female pride demons, such as the Baroness.

As soon as the baronness reverts to her demonic form she becomes male. Both her form and her voice are male.

I wouldn't say it's male just because it's deep, it's simply a scary demonic voice.

The desire demon has a similar voice that can be heard subtley in the backround whenever she talks.

Both voices used in ALL demons except desire are male. But since you don't want to realize this here is the list of the voice actors:

Sloth demon: Kieth Ferguson
Rage demon: Mark Meer (who also acted for unspecified demons)
Orphanage demon: Keith Szarabajka

Desire demon: Jeannie Ellis, Kath Soucie, April Banigan (Kitty)

Could not find other actors (they are marked as "additional voices") but the trend is clear.

Oh whoops, I thought Pride demon voices were deepened drastically with a computer but upon finally finding one on Youtube it seems I was remembering wrong.

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 06 juillet 2013 - 06:59 .

[Darth Death]

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

 The other demons seem agendered in their looks, but a desire demon is clearly female. Just wondered why that was :innocent:

Because even then, demonic or otherwise, women still care about their appearance.

[Ridwan]

Darth Death wrote...

So 64 Flogs walk into a bar wrote...

 The other demons seem agendered in their looks, but a desire demon is clearly female. Just wondered why that was :innocent:

Because even then, demonic or otherwise, women still care about their appearance.

Careful there buddy, you don't wanna generalise and appear sexist.

[PsychoBlonde]

M25105 wrote...

And yet that same place where the Empress rules has all male knights raping women left and right, cause they can. And in the Landsmeet I can't recall more than one woman.

You mean, apart from Anora, Grand Cleric Elemena, Ser Cauthrian, and Bann Alfstanna?