Aller au contenu

Photo

Why mass effect 3 had to have a good ending.


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
365 réponses à ce sujet

#351
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 388 messages

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
Akuze, the Skyllian Blitz, and Torfan are all made out to be incidents of Shepard prevailing against nigh-impossible odds

Mindoir, and possibly Earthborn as well.


But the Suicide Mission isn't a story about Shepard prevailing at the expense of the rest of his squad, like the thresher maw backstory. Had loyalty only determined the success of that particular task with the character dying no matter what, then perhaps it would have been in line with ME1's backstories, and possibly ME3 as well.

As it is, post-ME2 the series seems to be trending towards no downsides. Heck, even up to Rannoch you could sort of make that argument.

In any case, even if Rannoch doesn't fulfill the "hard choices" promise, it fulfills the "choices matter" promise - interpreted here as previous decisions influencing future situations - which personally is what I thought the point of the series was, having never seen that ME1 promo, and having played other games where you can't will your way out of virtually every situation.


That wasn't what I was getting at.  The point is Shepard was, from the very moment of character creation, a survivor.  And as such, survival, clear survival, should have been an option.  Not a guarantee, necessarilly, but an option. 

#352
CronoDragoon

CronoDragoon
  • Members
  • 10 413 messages

iakus wrote...

That wasn't what I was getting at.  The point is Shepard was, from the very moment of character creation, a survivor.  And as such, survival, clear survival, should have been an option.  Not a guarantee, necessarilly, but an option. 


Except when he died. He wouldn't have been a survivor then had it not been for billions of the Illusive Man's credits.

Regardless Shepard being a "survivor" isn't the point of his character. Getting the job done against all odds is.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 21 juillet 2013 - 12:54 .


#353
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 388 messages

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

That wasn't what I was getting at.  The point is Shepard was, from the very moment of character creation, a survivor.  And as such, survival, clear survival, should have been an option.  Not a guarantee, necessarilly, but an option. 


Except when he died. He wouldn't have been a survivor then had it not been for billions of the Illusive Man's credits.


Exactly.  Even being spaced didn't take.  It was a two eyar inconvenience, and played out as such.

#354
CronoDragoon

CronoDragoon
  • Members
  • 10 413 messages

iakus wrote...

Exactly.  Even being spaced didn't take.  It was a two eyar inconvenience, and played out as such.


Exactly? So the point of Shepard's character is that someone is there to bail him out when he gets owned?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 21 juillet 2013 - 12:56 .


#355
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 388 messages

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

Exactly.  Even being spaced didn't take.  It was a two eyar inconvenience, and played out as such.


Exactly? So the point of Shepard's character is that someone is there to bail him out when he gets owned?


Well, that's the point of MEHEM, anyway? :P

BUt at any rate, the point here is that Shepard finds a way out.  Maybe alone, maybe with friends.

Even when Shepard really did die, it didn't last.  As Wrex put it "the abyss can't hold you"

#356
christrek1982

christrek1982
  • Members
  • 1 515 messages

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

Exactly.  Even being spaced didn't take.  It was a two eyar inconvenience, and played out as such.


Exactly? So the point of Shepard's character is that someone is there to bail him out when he gets owned?


Well, that's the point of MEHEM, anyway? :P

BUt at any rate, the point here is that Shepard finds a way out.  Maybe alone, maybe with friends.

Even when Shepard really did die, it didn't last.  As Wrex put it "the abyss can't hold you"


I agree that ME was for me and I'd dare say meany others a story about overcoming the odds and alway have hope shepards servival should not be defult or even easy to get but it needed to be there.  it give the player somthing to aim for.  Having that golden ending it part of it being a game atleast for me in the end THIS IS A GAME it's not real life and it dose not have to be ultra realistic.

don't get me wrong Shepards sevival isn't the only issue with the ending and no amout of EC or MEHEM is going to fix the feeling of dissconnect that that ending has with the rest of ME.

Although MEHEM helps a lot.:D

#357
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 733 messages
As usual, the argument loses me when we start talking about Shepard's survival as being even in doubt. Sure, the scene leaves you a way to interpret it as Shepard dying anyway if you really, really want to do that, but if the theme really is Shepard overcoming the odds and surviving, why are you fighting the theme?

#358
Erez Kristal

Erez Kristal
  • Members
  • 1 656 messages

christrek1982 wrote...


I agree that ME was for me and I'd dare say meany others a story about overcoming the odds and alway have hope shepards servival should not be defult or even easy to get but it needed to be there.  it give the player somthing to aim for.  Having that golden ending it part of it being a game atleast for me in the end THIS IS A GAME it's not real life and it dose not have to be ultra realistic.

don't get me wrong Shepards sevival isn't the only issue with the ending and no amout of EC or MEHEM is going to fix the feeling of dissconnect that that ending has with the rest of ME.

Although MEHEM helps a lot.:D

Shepard can die countless times during missions, you can always play it like real life and 1 death=gameover.
which would make the me3 ending even more terribile.

#359
The Twilight God

The Twilight God
  • Members
  • 3 083 messages

Mcfly616 wrote...

erezike wrote...

you cant do a bittersweet ending if the writers hijack the protagonist on key moment and nerf him for it.

I must've missed that part...


Probably the fact that Shepard ceases to act as Shepard in the chamber. He's always contacting EDI to scan stuff and report to him what's going on. In the chamber that doesn't happen. He isn't allowed any of the tools he has available. It's a mess. 5 minutes earlier he slams TIM about control and all it takes is on sentence from the Reaper King and now it's viable and worth the risk??? And I'm the delusional one for thinking Control and Synthesis are indoctrinated endings that maintain the indoctrinated perspective to the credits and beyond?

I loved Bioware's BS response that the magnitude of the Reapers required a **** ending.

The magnitude of the Reapers was trivialized the moment the Crucble was announced in the first 30 minutes of the game. Next time get a real story writer, Bioware. They just took Dragon Age's storyline without DA's payoff in the form of allies actually making a difference or the noble sacrifice OPTION that DA had. I spend the whole game based on gathering allies (THAT'S THE WHOLE PLOT) and in the end it's pretty much just the Alliance vs the Reapers? And they have the nerve to say they didn't think it would matter to anyone. THE ENTIRE STORY WAS BASED AROUND THIS CONCEPT for ****'s sake.
.

#360
shingara

shingara
  • Members
  • 589 messages
Ill drop the K bomb, Riddle me this. If its a bad ending and all synthetic and part synthetics die with the original cannon ending (Destruction) on full readiness setting how does shep wake up on the ground and how does Kasumi survive ??????

 Its just a fact the original ending was the good ending, just bioware playing mind games.

Modifié par shingara, 23 juillet 2013 - 03:04 .


#361
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

Guest_Morocco Mole_*
  • Guests
It's a pretty good ending IMO

#362
The Twilight God

The Twilight God
  • Members
  • 3 083 messages

shingara wrote...

Ill drop the K bomb, Riddle me this. If its a bad ending and all synthetic and part synthetics die with the original cannon ending (Destruction) on full readiness setting how does shep wake up on the ground and how does Kasumi survive ??????

 Its just a fact the original ending was the good ending, just bioware playing mind games.


In-game evidence dictates that the Destroy ending only effects synthesized material. (i.e. Reaper terminators inside the dreadnaughts and husk variations). No other technology was seriously effected. The bad thing about it is the relay destruction with no one around capable of fixing them. To say they weren't destroyed is like saying a totaled car is still good because the hull is still technically intact.

#363
shingara

shingara
  • Members
  • 589 messages

The Twilight God wrote...

shingara wrote...

Ill drop the K bomb, Riddle me this. If its a bad ending and all synthetic and part synthetics die with the original cannon ending (Destruction) on full readiness setting how does shep wake up on the ground and how does Kasumi survive ??????

 Its just a fact the original ending was the good ending, just bioware playing mind games.


In-game evidence dictates that the Destroy ending only effects synthesized material. (i.e. Reaper terminators inside the dreadnaughts and husk variations). No other technology was seriously effected. The bad thing about it is the relay destruction with no one around capable of fixing them. To say they weren't destroyed is like saying a totaled car is still good because the hull is still technically intact.


 It didnt just destroy the reapers though did it, it desintigrated all things with reaper tech within it, namley the husks you see turn to dust on jacobs little cutscene. And as ALL our tech is built upon mass relay tech and mass relay tech is reaper tech that means every biotic is implanted with reaper tech, all ships run on repaer tech, nearlly all soilders have reaper tech in them.

 Yet only the reapers and reaper forces are destroyed which points to a very specific thing, the nanites that are the reapers, the reapers within and throughout themselves are the nanites within them, syntheitc and organic material reanimated via the nanites that control them. This is how the catalyst first created subjects to go out and try and control what it was programed to understand as chaos.

 These are the same nanites that claimed the leviathons to create harbinger. And also the mass relays and the citidel get repaired dont they so the energy wave that destroyed the reapers no matter what the catalyst tried to state would destroy all synthetic and part synthic without discrimination isnt true and it specifical only target the one thing that is the reapers and reaper forces.

#364
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages
I just got through this abomination of an ending last night. Whoopie. Starbrat. I didn't want to listen to you so I kept it high level. The whole thing about the "Decision Chamber" is that the amount of reverb used is the same amount of reverb they used during the dream sequences. This indicates that it did not occur outside of Shepard's head. Hence it doesn't matter what ending you picked. The scene with the Illusive Man ends with Shepard, Anderson, and TIM laying flat out.

Did Hackett really speak? Or was that part of the dream? Did Shepard and Anderson really have the best seats in the house or were they already dead?

Basically Bioware can sweep this entire ending under the rug like it never happened. Shepard died. The Crucible fired on automatic and did whatever it was supposed to do and the war was over. Walters can say whatever he wants in the next installment.

#365
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 850 messages

The Twilight God wrote...
In-game evidence dictates that the Destroy ending only effects synthesized material. (i.e. Reaper terminators inside the dreadnaughts and husk variations). No other technology was seriously effected. The bad thing about it is the relay destruction with no one around capable of fixing them. To say they weren't destroyed is like saying a totaled car is still good because the hull is still technically intact.


The vital portion that provides power is still intact, otherwise they would've detonated and destroyed whatever system they're in, just like in The Arrival. The animation of their damage was clearly changed between the original and Extended Cut to retcon the destruction of the relays in high EMS. A totaled car can't be driven, but it can be repaired, depending on how extensive the damage is. 

And besides, they fixed the Citadel. We see it go through the process of repair. There's no reason the same cannot be done for the relays.

#366
The Twilight God

The Twilight God
  • Members
  • 3 083 messages

shingara wrote...


 These are the same nanites that claimed the leviathons to create harbinger. And also the mass relays and the citidel get repaired dont they so the energy wave that destroyed the reapers no matter what the catalyst tried to state would destroy all synthetic and part synthic without discrimination isnt true and it specifical only target the one thing that is the reapers and reaper forces.


No, the Citadel does not get repaired in-game. Hackett talks about it optimistically, but the games real-time events show this narrative occurring right after the war ends. The last scene to actually occur is the memorial (or breathe scene). All those pictures in the slide show are just optimistic hopes. Some of which being virtually impossible to actually come to pass as shown. All 3 narrations speak of what the speaker hopes will happen, plans to make happen, etc. Never does it say this happened (past tense). It's worded in the present about what is hoped to occur. Rather any of that stuff actually plays out is unknown. Go on YouTube and listen to it. And the stargazer can complete negate everything as it could just be his personalized telling of an old tale. Bioware left themselves a lot of rope.

The EC changed absolutely nothing. They just counted on people to make gross assumptions to shut them up.

KaiserShep wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...
In-game evidence dictates that the Destroy ending only effects synthesized material. (i.e. Reaper terminators inside the dreadnaughts and husk variations). No other technology was seriously effected. The bad thing about it is the relay destruction with no one around capable of fixing them. To say they weren't destroyed is like saying a totaled car is still good because the hull is still technically intact.


The vital portion that provides power is still intact, otherwise they would've detonated and destroyed whatever system they're in, just like in The Arrival. The animation of their damage was clearly changed between the original and Extended Cut to retcon the destruction of the relays in high EMS. A totaled car can't be driven, but it can be repaired, depending on how extensive the damage is. 

And besides, they fixed the Citadel. We see it go through the process of repair. There's no reason the same cannot be done for the relays.


We never actually see the Citadel fixed. See above. And repairing the citadel, at least structurally, with standard materials isn't quite the same as making a functional mass relay. It's just a space station at that point and doesn't need relay capabilities.

The DeLorean in Back to the Future could conceivably be repaired if totaled in the year 1500 with the Doc being dead. But given nobody in that time, including Marty, has any idea how to repair a car, much less a time traveling car, what are the chances of it getting fixed in Marty's lifetime? Zilch.

This is the same situation we are left with at the end of ME3. Maybe they fix the relays or make their own "someday", but I can confidently say that Samara and her daughter will NEVER see each other again and Grunt would have a fully developed plate and a  big hump before he ever set foot back on Tuchanka. Wrex might be dead from old age (if Krogan die from old age). They would have to manually traverse the galaxy and repair them. This would take centuries according to the codex in travel time. Not to mention the enormous construction times. The entire culture of the galaxy would have to change into Migrant Repair Fleets reminiscent of the Quarians. They'd need ships to house enough food, materials, fuel, etc. And they have to get to this point after repairing infrastructure back home. There is just too much work ahead to complete such a project in the short timeframe the slideshow depicts. And that's in a fantasy scenario where they know how to rebuilt relays.