66 réponses à ce sujet

[teenparty]

 If Leliana used the ashes to save herself, doesn't that make her a reaver? Should she be given a more "dragony" personality in DAI if the warden killed her in DAO?

[twilekaoi]

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

[Airdeen]

We haven't been given the explanation of how she survives, I'm guessing that explanation comes in DA:I.

[Maria Caliban]

Who says reavers have dragony personalities?

Liskat wrote...

We haven't been given the explanation of how she survives, I'm guessing that explanation comes in DA:I.

I am hoping.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 06 juillet 2013 - 07:06 .

[teenparty]

twilekaoi wrote...

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

She was left for dead on a snowy mountain in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fanatics and a dragon. It seems unlikely she could have escaped while bleeding from apparently mortal wounds. The ashes seems most likely to me.

Modifié par teenparty, 06 juillet 2013 - 07:08 .

[HurricaneGinger]

The ashes are destroyed when you use the dragon blood. So in theory she would have had to drink the blood, not the ashes.

Becoming a Reaver, yes, you do have to drink the blood of a dragon in DA2; but in DAO you make a deal with demons. So there's still some question of fluidity of specializations. Maybe it has something to do with the region in how a specialization is learned.

Modifié par PhantomGinger, 06 juillet 2013 - 07:15 .

[twilekaoi]

teenparty wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

She was left for dead on a snowy mountain in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fanatics and a dragon. It seems unlikely she could have escaped while bleeding from apparently mortal wounds. The ashes seems most likely to me.

Yeah that definitely adds up, but regarding your initial post I don't think using the ashes makes one into a reaver. By that logic, wouldn't Eamon be a reaver as well? 

Lore-wise, I think drinking ritual-fused wverym blood gives one the knowledge of a reaver (since it's based on wyvern memories). Unless Leliana revived herself with the ashes and teamed up with the dragon cult-- which is highly unlikely given her personality-- I don't see how she can be a reaver.

[twilekaoi]

PhantomGinger wrote...

The ashes are destroyed when you use the dragon blood. So in theory she would have had to drink the blood, not the ashes.

Becoming a Reaver, yes, you do have to drink the blood of a dragon in DA2; but in DAO you make a deal with demons. So there's still some question of fluidity of specializations. Maybe it has something to do with the region in how a specialization is learned.

Do you remember the part where the Warden makes that specific deal
with demons? My memory of that whole section is shady at best. I was
under the impression that fusing the dragon's blood was the only blood
magic and or/ demon part about it-- as the rest and the knowledge itself is just the
knowledge of a dragon.

Modifié par twilekaoi, 06 juillet 2013 - 07:24 .

[HurricaneGinger]

twilekaoi wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

The ashes are destroyed when you use the dragon blood. So in theory she would have had to drink the blood, not the ashes.

Becoming a Reaver, yes, you do have to drink the blood of a dragon in DA2; but in DAO you make a deal with demons. So there's still some question of fluidity of specializations. Maybe it has something to do with the region in how a specialization is learned.

Do you remember the part where the Warden makes that specific deal
with demons? My memory of that whole section is shady at best. I was
under the impression that fusing the dragon's blood was the only blood
magic part about it-- as the rest and the knowledge itself is just the
knowledge of a dragon.

Do you ever remember the Warden making a deal with demons if he/she became a Blood Mage? There were no scenes, you just clicked a button and you learned.

I took that from the DAO wiki:

Demonic spirits teach more than blood magic. Reavers terrorize their enemies, feast upon the souls of their slain opponents to heal their own flesh, and can unleash a blood frenzy that makes them more powerful as they come nearer to their own deaths.

So I would assume that you do speak with demons. If you don't, then I'm confused with the description. Hell, I'm already confused because the specialization is different in DA2; but like I said, it's possibly a regional difference.

[teenparty]

twilekaoi wrote...

teenparty wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

She was left for dead on a snowy mountain in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fanatics and a dragon. It seems unlikely she could have escaped while bleeding from apparently mortal wounds. The ashes seems most likely to me.

Yeah that definitely adds up, but regarding your initial post I don't think using the ashes makes one into a reaver. By that logic, wouldn't Eamon be a reaver as well? 

Lore-wise, I think drinking ritual-fused wverym blood gives one the knowledge of a reaver (since it's based on wyvern memories). Unless Leliana revived herself with the ashes and teamed up with the dragon cult-- which is highly unlikely given her personality-- I don't see how she can be a reaver.

Eamon wouldn't be a reaver, because the warden took some of the ashes out of the urn before he defiled it.

When the warden drink the dragon blood, the same blood he pours into the urn, he gains the dragons memories. Wouldn't that happen to Leliana if she used the urn to save herself?

[DatOneFanboy]

leave leliana alone

[HurricaneGinger]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

leave leliana alone

teenparty wrote...


Eamon wouldn't be a reaver, because the warden took some of the ashes out of the urn before he defiled it.

When the warden drink the dragon blood, the same blood he pours into the urn, he gains the dragons memories.Wouldn't that happen to Leliana if she used the urn to save herself?

Where was this? I don't recall.

[twilekaoi]

PhantomGinger wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

The ashes are destroyed when you use the dragon blood. So in theory she would have had to drink the blood, not the ashes.

Becoming a Reaver, yes, you do have to drink the blood of a dragon in DA2; but in DAO you make a deal with demons. So there's still some question of fluidity of specializations. Maybe it has something to do with the region in how a specialization is learned.

Do you remember the part where the Warden makes that specific deal
with demons? My memory of that whole section is shady at best. I was
under the impression that fusing the dragon's blood was the only blood
magic part about it-- as the rest and the knowledge itself is just the
knowledge of a dragon.

Do you ever remember the Warden making a deal with demons if he/she became a Blood Mage? There were no scenes, you just clicked a button and you learned.

I took that from the DAO wiki:

Demonic spirits teach more than blood magic. Reavers terrorize their enemies, feast upon the souls of their slain opponents to heal their own flesh, and can unleash a blood frenzy that makes them more powerful as they come nearer to their own deaths.

So I would assume that you do speak with demons. If you don't, then I'm confused with the description. Hell, I'm already confused because the specialization is different in DA2; but like I said, it's possibly a regional difference.

To be honest I think that sentence alone might be wrong, inaccurate or totally vague. Maybe they retconned that when they developed DA2? I don't think it has anything to do with magic or demons... In that Felicia Day web series (crappy or not, Gaider was involved), they wrote a character who was a reaver from Nevarra. Reavers are just basically masochists who like violence; barbaric instinct, like a dragon. I didn't get a demon based mogic origin vibe from her description when she talked about being a reaver.

Kolgrim is another reaver in DAO, who is also a dwarf-- so that just reaffirms my belief somebody messed up in that description.

[HurricaneGinger]

twilekaoi wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

The ashes are destroyed when you use the dragon blood. So in theory she would have had to drink the blood, not the ashes.

Becoming a Reaver, yes, you do have to drink the blood of a dragon in DA2; but in DAO you make a deal with demons. So there's still some question of fluidity of specializations. Maybe it has something to do with the region in how a specialization is learned.

Do you remember the part where the Warden makes that specific deal
with demons? My memory of that whole section is shady at best. I was
under the impression that fusing the dragon's blood was the only blood
magic part about it-- as the rest and the knowledge itself is just the
knowledge of a dragon.

Do you ever remember the Warden making a deal with demons if he/she became a Blood Mage? There were no scenes, you just clicked a button and you learned.

I took that from the DAO wiki:

Demonic spirits teach more than blood magic. Reavers terrorize their enemies, feast upon the souls of their slain opponents to heal their own flesh, and can unleash a blood frenzy that makes them more powerful as they come nearer to their own deaths.

So I would assume that you do speak with demons. If you don't, then I'm confused with the description. Hell, I'm already confused because the specialization is different in DA2; but like I said, it's possibly a regional difference.

To be honest I think that sentence alone might be wrong, inaccurate or totally vague. Maybe they retconned that when they developed DA2? I don't think it has anything to do with magic or demons... In that Felicia Day web series (crappy or not, Gaider was involved), they wrote a character who was a reaver from Nevarra. Reavers are just basically masochists who like violence; barbaric instinct, like a dragon. I didn't get a demon based mogic origin vibe from her description when she talked about being a reaver.

Kolgrim is another reaver in DAO, who is also a dwarf-- so that just reaffirms my belief somebody messed up in that description.

*gigglesnorts* Kolgrim's the tallest dwarf I've ever seen! 

[teenparty]

PhantomGinger wrote...

teenparty wrote...


Eamon wouldn't be a reaver, because the warden took some of the ashes out of the urn before he defiled it.

When the warden drink the dragon blood, the same blood he pours into the urn, he gains the dragons memories.Wouldn't that happen to Leliana if she used the urn to save herself?

Where was this? I don't recall.

This only happens if you chose to defile the urn and then drink the dragon blood. 

[twilekaoi]

teenparty wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

teenparty wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

She was left for dead on a snowy mountain in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fanatics and a dragon. It seems unlikely she could have escaped while bleeding from apparently mortal wounds. The ashes seems most likely to me.

Yeah that definitely adds up, but regarding your initial post I don't think using the ashes makes one into a reaver. By that logic, wouldn't Eamon be a reaver as well? 

Lore-wise, I think drinking ritual-fused wverym blood gives one the knowledge of a reaver (since it's based on wyvern memories). Unless Leliana revived herself with the ashes and teamed up with the dragon cult-- which is highly unlikely given her personality-- I don't see how she can be a reaver.

Eamon wouldn't be a reaver, because the warden took some of the ashes out of the urn before he defiled it.

When the warden drink the dragon blood, the same blood he pours into the urn, he gains the dragons memories. Wouldn't that happen to Leliana if she used the urn to save herself?

Good point, my memory of that whole section is really shoddy. Unless someone who remembers the section better can debunk otherwise-- I'd say this would be the case with Leliana. Though I'm not entirely sure if being a reaver affects personality, but it would be an interesting combination to see in Leliana since the reavers we see in game are mostly fist to ground brute types.

[Sith Grey Warden]

The Reavers on the mountain clearly learned Reaving from drinking dragon's blood. We know this because that's how the specialization is unlocked. However, becoming a Reaver likely also requires putting that knowledge to use. After drinking dragon's blood, the player still has to choose the specialization while leveling up. Leliana probably wouldn't have chosen to develop Reaver talents.

Also, it's possible that the Ashes weren't entirely destroyed instantly. If it took a while, Kolgrim might only have sensed the process beginning when he rewarded the Warden. Even covered in dragon's blood, the Ashes themselves could've remained pure for a moment.

Then there's the lyrium vein in the mountain that Oghren mentions. It's possible that exposure to the vein directly, without the ashes, somehow revived Leliana the same way it kept the guardian alive through the centuries.

She's probably not a reaver.

[twilekaoi]

PhantomGinger wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

The ashes are destroyed when you use the dragon blood. So in theory she would have had to drink the blood, not the ashes.

Becoming a Reaver, yes, you do have to drink the blood of a dragon in DA2; but in DAO you make a deal with demons. So there's still some question of fluidity of specializations. Maybe it has something to do with the region in how a specialization is learned.

Do you remember the part where the Warden makes that specific deal
with demons? My memory of that whole section is shady at best. I was
under the impression that fusing the dragon's blood was the only blood
magic part about it-- as the rest and the knowledge itself is just the
knowledge of a dragon.

Do you ever remember the Warden making a deal with demons if he/she became a Blood Mage? There were no scenes, you just clicked a button and you learned.

I took that from the DAO wiki:

Demonic spirits teach more than blood magic. Reavers terrorize their enemies, feast upon the souls of their slain opponents to heal their own flesh, and can unleash a blood frenzy that makes them more powerful as they come nearer to their own deaths.

So I would assume that you do speak with demons. If you don't, then I'm confused with the description. Hell, I'm already confused because the specialization is different in DA2; but like I said, it's possibly a regional difference.

To be honest I think that sentence alone might be wrong, inaccurate or totally vague. Maybe they retconned that when they developed DA2? I don't think it has anything to do with magic or demons... In that Felicia Day web series (crappy or not, Gaider was involved), they wrote a character who was a reaver from Nevarra. Reavers are just basically masochists who like violence; barbaric instinct, like a dragon. I didn't get a demon based mogic origin vibe from her description when she talked about being a reaver.

Kolgrim is another reaver in DAO, who is also a dwarf-- so that just reaffirms my belief somebody messed up in that description.

*gigglesnorts* Kolgrim's the tallest dwarf I've ever seen! 

XD My mistake. I mean that Legion of the Dead dude you meet in the Deep Roads. Bad memory, bad!

[LobselVith8]

teenparty wrote...

If Leliana used the ashes to save herself, doesn't that make her a reaver? Should she be given a more "dragony" personality in DAI if the warden killed her in DAO?

She could be possessed by a spirit or a demon if The Warden killed her, like Wynne was when she died.

[twilekaoi]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

The Reavers on the mountain clearly learned Reaving from drinking dragon's blood. We know this because that's how the specialization is unlocked. However, becoming a Reaver likely also requires putting that knowledge to use. After drinking dragon's blood, the player still has to choose the specialization while leveling up. Leliana probably wouldn't have chosen to develop Reaver talents.

Also, it's possible that the Ashes weren't entirely destroyed instantly. If it took a while, Kolgrim might only have sensed the process beginning when he rewarded the Warden. Even covered in dragon's blood, the Ashes themselves could've remained pure for a moment.

Then there's the lyrium vein in the mountain that Oghren mentions. It's possible that exposure to the vein directly, without the ashes, somehow revived Leliana the same way it kept the guardian alive through the centuries.

She's probably not a reaver.

Another possibility is that the "Maker" itself decided to revive Leliana since she was defeated in a holy structure with the Guardian slain. Or that essence that fueled the guardian could have traveled to Leliana (or Wynn) as a consequence of him being slain. So many possibilities!

Modifié par twilekaoi, 06 juillet 2013 - 07:52 .

[BlueMagitek]

I would love a Reaver for every class, so I support the Bard/Reaver spec for Leliana.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

teenparty wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

She was left for dead on a snowy mountain in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fanatics and a dragon. It seems unlikely she could have escaped while bleeding from apparently mortal wounds. The ashes seems most likely to me.

In a series full of magic, undead, dragons and demons, you find it unlikely she could survive?

[BlueMagitek]

I'm more of the belief that she was resurrected.

[twilekaoi]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

teenparty wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

Has it been confirmed that a dead Leliana used the ashes to heal herself? First I've heard of this...

She was left for dead on a snowy mountain in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fanatics and a dragon. It seems unlikely she could have escaped while bleeding from apparently mortal wounds. The ashes seems most likely to me.

In a series full of magic, undead, dragons and demons, you find it unlikely she could survive?

Never said that.
Not a matter of could, but rather how.

[DatOneFanboy]

so thats how u get the reaver specialization! sht still not worth it