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[chris2365]

Hello everyone,

I'm on my 1st playthrough of Dragon Age Origins, and I'm loving it so far (over 60 hours and counting). The final allies I need to recruit are the dwarves. When I arrived, I got a sense of how the society worked. Then, I found out I would need to support one of the two candidates to the throne (Bhelen or Harrowmont).

Unfortunantly, I'm used to getting some background information on characters before making a choice like this. I've gone through all of Orzammar without hearing much about these two characters. I was wondering if someone could tell me where to find info about these two ( exlcuding the wiki ) and with the least spoilers possible, or if someone can give me a brief description without saying which I should support.

Thanks

Modifié par chris2365, 07 juillet 2013 - 05:08 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Everything Bhelen's enemies say about him is true, except that he probably didn't kill his father. On the other hand, Harrowmont is not a very strong ruler and is very big on the dwarven traditions which weaken its armies and sharply limit trade.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 07 juillet 2013 - 05:41 .

[chris2365]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Everything Bhelen's enemies say about him is true, except that he probably didn't kill his father. On the other hand, Harrowmont is not a very strong ruler and is very big on the dwarven traditions which weaken its armies and sharply limit trade.

Thanks for the response. You see, I don't even know what Bhelen's enemies say about him, and I didn't know that Harrowmont was big on tradition. These are the details I'm looking for, and I can't find them in-game. The wiki might hold answers, though I'd rather avoid the spoilers

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Essentially, they say that he's amoral and engineered the deaths of his two older brothers, which anyone who played the Dwarf Noble origin can tell you is flatly true. They also say even his late father didn't want him on the throne, which I absolutely believe. Nerav Helmi also states that she thinks Bhelen killed his father, which I don't think is true but may well be.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 07 juillet 2013 - 05:50 .

[Blazomancer]

It doesn't quite matter who you decide to help in the beginning; you can even toggle sides as the questline progresses. You'd probably want to visit both parties, and have a little chat.

[Corker]

Harrowmont thinks of himself as an upright and just man, and by dwarven standards, he's amazingly moral. He's a very, very strong supporter of dwarven traditions, including the caste system and the right of the Assembly to make decisions for Orzammar. (This would be the Assembly that is currently deadlocked, although one might think that fighting a Blight would be a no-brainer. Then again, [redacted for IRL political content concerning the US Congress].)

Bhelen thinks of himself as a very effective leader who does what he needs to to get what he wants. He wants more trade with the surface, and is willing to work with lower castes if it will help him achieve his ends. He will also lie, cheat and murder - he is not a good man at all. But he does get things done, and he really does not want a Blight to destroy the nearest surface nation he'd like to trade with.

[Bhryaen]

Yes, this really is one of the more difficult choices to make in the game particularly given the lack of a pre-digested background laid out for you already. It forces you to roleplay from impressions and scant knowledge and make selections that aren't pure wins, just the better of the two options you've got. You must interfere in dwarven society in a big way in order to secure dwarven participation in defeating the blight, and both candidates come with scant backgrounds and poor political dispositions.

I'll try to answer in such a way as to not simply be biased against one or the other, though there is a better candidate IMO. This remains contested by DAO fans- and this is part of why the dwarven portion of DAO holds so much more depth than the rest of the game- so you've waded into a major debate topic unwittingly. ;-)

In order to get the information you need to make a decision you need to do a lot of critical thinking about what you're experiencing in Orzammar society. If you ever play the Dwarf Commoner origin and meet up with Duncan (and later King Cailan), you'll see how naive it can appear to be a polite foreigner in Orzammar.

The first thing to do is to see all of Orzammar and talk to people a lot to get a sense of what's going on. Nadezda in Dust Town and Denek Helmi in Tapster's Tavern are two of my favorite characters in the game. The main thing is that dwarven society is severely divided by caste. Just go past the Assembly Hall to the Shaperate and ask the Shaper about the casteless to get a sense of the "official" attitude toward ghettoized dwarves. Also read all the lore you come across. And make sure to pass by the two town criers in the Diamond Quarter- one for Harrowmont, one for Bhelen- and you'll get to see the sorts of principles both candidates emphasize to get your support and how they "argue" their positions. There is a different emphasis from both camps.

One thing you have to do is approach both Bhelen's advisor Vartag (you see him immediately in the Assembly Hall) and Harrowmont's go-to-guy Dulin (who greets you as you leave the Assembly Hall but hangs out in Harrowmont's mansion afterward). You see the different character of each candidate in what each asks you to do in order to win their trust. This doesn't in itself make either candidate better, but if you're roleplaying you'll have to take that into account. Harrowmont (and Dulin) does come across as the kind and upfront one while Bhelen (and Vartag) comes across as the scheming cutthroat.

You're not actually obligated to choose one or the other candidate until the very end of the main dwarf treaty quest Paragon of Her Kind (quite a ways in), so it's no rush, but you do have to make preliminary choices in order to get the process moving. As was mentioned earlier it is possible to "double-cross" one candidate after agreeing to help them. In doing so you end up able to speak with both candidates to get yet another sense of how each would rule. This is where you get Harrowmont's attitude toward the casteless and tendencies regarding making public policy- and where you get Bhelen's scheming side a bit more directly, but it's still not entirely clear how things will go with either candidate until you complete the entire game and get to the epilogue slides, so you'll still have to choose somewhat blindly. Enjoy your present ignorance! ;-) Harder to roleplay when you know how it goes with both candidates over the long run.

[Lady Yunalesca]

In my opinion, Bhelen is a better king in the long run; he does better for trade and the casteless. Harrowmont is not a bad choice, but he is more of an Isolationist and in the end Orzammar suffers greatly because of this. I prefer Harrowmont over Bhelen myself, but Bhelen comes out as the better King.

Another option for next time though, I highly suggest playing as a dwarven noble because that will give you a lot more background as well into the story of Bhelen and why I myself do not personally care for him, even if he does make out to be the better King.