136 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I dont' ignore anything. You over-inflate and generalize.

Yep i m templar don't hate mages not that they call them robes (i gave you examples), not that they fear them (i gave you examples where most of them do) , not that they rape and torture them (i gave you many examples) , not that they like killing mages (i gave you many examples) but just i generalize not that my all examples that most of them hate mages are true...


I m watching you for some times and i have to say that you rly have hate issues toward mages first you you justify that templars kill them law then you automatically assumed that veil in trailer is torn by power hunger mages and in this thread you call them

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

duckley wrote...
Just a simple question... I may be missing something in Dragon Age Lore, but what role do Mages play in every day life?

Doormat.

so... you say he hates them just because he answerd teh question with the word doormat... umm tell me how he is wrong... yes we know that the templars don't 100% hate them, you can say that about everything not even 100% of mages hate the circle. but in general, Mages are treated as unneeded or unwanted. Only during time of war are they "needed" but the templars don't want to use them. Its pretty sad really I mean look how the templars treated the mages during Ostrgar... i mean holy crap....

They let only 7 mages and now watch scene with uldred and grand cleric, i saw many times how he fell about mages so...

And maybe in that too quickly drawing a conclusion but he wrote what we can see more than once.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 08 juillet 2013 - 12:43 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
i gave you own qoutes sad but true it's not my quotes when you call mages doormat or better:) from other thread

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'd think that mages will be perfectly capable of mending the veil while in (templar) chains too.

Go templars!

Methinks you are taking this way too seriously.
Also, mining for my quotes out of context is bound to fail (as it does here).
You are making the assumption that anything I post is 100% serious.

[Patchwork]

Nightdragon8 wrote...


jerks? so you call people who use people who are different "jerks" ... well those "jerks" get people killed, mages or not. and if anything would force the mages to move out, and pretty much live in htere own village. then after awhile, the goverenment will come in and start making demands, consciption for the price of using there land, then other lands will do the same thing invite mages to settle in just to conscipt them, oh yea if you don't join, it will be considered treason and an act of war, and everyone is the village will be whiped out....

I can already see the end of htat road, it will lead to war, and end up going right back tot he circle system, all because some Arl of whatever used mages to do a power grab of the throne and all the lands...

I was tired and the word I wanted to use was a lot less PG. 

I don't see how keeping people locked up can be right or be justified simply because some people may may take advantage of them. Even the DEMONS! argument has more merit than that. 

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
i gave you own qoutes sad but true it's not my quotes when you call mages doormat or better:) from other thread

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'd think that mages will be perfectly capable of mending the veil while in (templar) chains too.

Go templars!

Methinks you are taking this way too seriously.
Also, mining for my quotes out of context is bound to fail (as it does here).
You are making the assumption that anything I post is 100% serious.

If it is true im sorry my mistake and what you mean by out of context?

[Nightdragon8]

Ser Bard wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...


jerks? so you call people who use people who are different "jerks" ... well those "jerks" get people killed, mages or not. and if anything would force the mages to move out, and pretty much live in htere own village. then after awhile, the goverenment will come in and start making demands, consciption for the price of using there land, then other lands will do the same thing invite mages to settle in just to conscipt them, oh yea if you don't join, it will be considered treason and an act of war, and everyone is the village will be whiped out....

I can already see the end of htat road, it will lead to war, and end up going right back tot he circle system, all because some Arl of whatever used mages to do a power grab of the throne and all the lands...

I was tired and the word I wanted to use was a lot less PG. 

I don't see how keeping people locked up can be right or be justified simply because some people may may take advantage of them. Even the DEMONS! argument has more merit than that. 

 

humans care me more than anything else. considering what do to eachother just because they are "different" is the problem

But in this case, if a group of people gang up on a mage, and that mage retaliates, alot of people will die.

Also there isn't too much "May" about it, its just a matter of time, and once word spreads then as i said it will go downhill fast. Cause as soon as 1 mage thats all it will take 1 mage to attack people for whatever reason, it would cause the circle of fear and hate to get EVERY mage kicked oout or locked up.

[BlueMagitek]

I would like to point out that Mages do get paid for services; that is the entire point of the Lucrosian Fraternity.

Circles tend to be self sufficient due to the Tranquil's enchanted item creation.

Edit:

Rather, not self sufficient, but capable of raising its own funds.

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 08 juillet 2013 - 02:01 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
If it is true im sorry my mistake and what you mean by out of context?

Out of context is a term that you would use if, for example, someone was
interviewed and said something that was later quoted, but without some
of the info in the story that would help the reader understand what the
person really meant. For example, if a senator is quoted as saying, "I
beat my wife ... . " it seems to mean one thing, but if the rest of that
part of the interview was about playing chess with her but that
information isn't included with the quote, then the quote is misleading
because it was taken out of context.

For another (extreeme) example:
http://knowyourmeme....g-site-murderer

The top line without the lower one.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
If it is true im sorry my mistake and what you mean by out of context?

Out of context is a term that you would use if, for example, someone was
interviewed and said something that was later quoted, but without some
of the info in the story that would help the reader understand what the
person really meant. For example, if a senator is quoted as saying, "I
beat my wife ... . " it seems to mean one thing, but if the rest of that
part of the interview was about playing chess with her but that
information isn't included with the quote, then the quote is misleading
because it was taken out of context.

For another (extreeme) example:
http://knowyourmeme....g-site-murderer

The top line without the lower one.

That guy ask what are your plans or someone towards closing veil sense of your comment is that same...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 08 juillet 2013 - 03:27 .

[Wompoo]

xxx2emo4Uxxx wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

duckley wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Not, they do not use their magic to do anything for non-magical society. The Chantry forbids it.

I didnt realize it was forbidden by the Chantry. If so, that explains it - although I often wonder why the highlighted words belwo never seemed to gain steam. Perhaps this will be a theme for DA:I?

There is no rule forbidding the use of magic for healing, the problem is accessibility. Plaintiff is one to overstate things fairly often.

It's not an overstatement in the least. The mages are forbidden from accessing and interacting with the outside world generally, that includes using magic on it for any reason.

*Prison* is very big overstatement. mages have more luxury in towers than 97% civilians in thedas.
You wake up in 8:00 am.. you eat... than you learn a bit.. than eat again for.. than learn a bit..  than spend your time with another mages... than eat again for free and go to sleep. everything FREE and guaranteed.
doesnt seem like very cruel life to me.

Not a cruel life  cows in lots are treated the same as well, feed and housed. See if you like being locked in your home for an indefinite period... hmmm, lets say potentially your whole life... its called house arrest, your degree of freedom is based purely on the whims of your jailer. Hopefully DA: I gives me  the option to cleanse Thedas of the Chantry and its "human" Maker.

[Bleachrude]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...



Soldiers get paid , even in awakening it is stated , mages not so helping for free because there is no other option because chantry don't allow mages have own wealth unless you escape their influence like hero of ferelden or Hawke (if mages) . And how mages are treated like trashes so if it you that same for dalish...

Bleachrude Wynne is war hero like warden and hawke so she is beyond the control of chantry , Finn is
recruited by hero of ferelden and now warden-commander who saved country twice...

There is a core of elite guards that get paid (Maric's shield, The silver griffons) but most of the army seems to be made up of levies. Levies though don't get paid.

Finn is recruited by the Warden Commander who could be an orlesian that let Amarthanine burn down so it's not because of goodwill he was recruited.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Bleachrude wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...



Soldiers get paid , even in awakening it is stated , mages not so helping for free because there is no other option because chantry don't allow mages have own wealth unless you escape their influence like hero of ferelden or Hawke (if mages) . And how mages are treated like trashes so if it you that same for dalish...

Bleachrude Wynne is war hero like warden and hawke so she is beyond the control of chantry , Finn is
recruited by hero of ferelden and now warden-commander who saved country twice...

There is a core of elite guards that get paid (Maric's shield, The silver griffons) but most of the army seems to be made up of levies. Levies though don't get paid.

Finn is recruited by the Warden Commander who could be an orlesian that let Amarthanine burn down so it's not because of goodwill he was recruited.

Who is still one of most important peoples in country and big figure for grey wardens. Random peasant who stole food you can tell him if he join to army he will have payment .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
That guy ask what are your plans or someone towards closing veil sense of your comment is that same...

The context is simple.
In that thread smeome was advocating killing all mages and not using them to close the veil.
My reply - in case you missed it - was that killing all mages was compeltely unnecessary.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
That guy ask what are your plans or someone towards closing veil sense of your comment is that same...

The context is simple.
In that thread smeome was advocating killing all mages and not using them to close the veil.
My reply - in case you missed it - was that killing all mages was compeltely unnecessary.

And i said you want kill mages nope i said you want imprison them by templars what is true and that comment mean that...

[garrusfan1]

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

xxx2emo4Uxxx wrote...
*Prison* is very big overstatement. mages have more luxury in towers than 97% civilians in thedas.

1) This is never stated in-game ever by anyone.

2) "Luxury" does not qualify a prison. Some prisons are extremely luxurious.

You wake up in 8:00 am.. you eat... than you learn a bit.. than eat again for free.. than learn a bit..  than spend your free time with another mages... than eat again for free and go to sleep.
doesnt seem like very cruel life to me.

Fixed meal times and restricted activities sound exactly like prison life to me.

Schools and the military has similar set-ups. Doesn`t make them prisons.

schools you don't live in (well most) and military life you sign up for unless the country your in has a mandatory service period which if it does that means if you don't you are sent to prison and looked down upon. so yeah with militaries you either sign up voluntarily which means you  knew what you were getting into and if you are forced then then you have no choice so you may be forced against your will. schools you don't live in and aren't ever allowed to leave and have your children taken from you at birth and never seen again by you so yeah there is a huge difference. and bording schools you can leave eventuall or are allowed to come home sometimes

[dragondreamer]

Bleachrude wrote...

duckley wrote...

I would still be interested in knowing what specific Chantry Laws prohibit Mages from helping the citzenry and contributing to society. Presumably Mages could do so with Templar oversight if need be. Just seems like a waste to me.

Witchhunt and Awakening shows that you don't even NEED templar oversight.

There's of course that botantist mage  in awakening and Finn seemed tyo have only had to ask the First Enchanter (and not even Gregoir) and IIRC, Isolder mentions that after Eamon was poisoned she had other mages look at Eamon....

Wynne in both the ending for DA:O and Awakening will be journeying without templar supervision....and you also meet a senior enchanter with his apprentices without any templars around

So, at least in Ferelden,  senior enchanters seem able to come and ho as the please and even newly Harrowed mahes can leave the circle for reasons ....

When Irving and Gregoir are arguing early on in the Mage Origin, it's because Irving wants to send more mages to Ostagar, but Gregoir doesn't want more than a set amount of mages off-leash.

The Fereldan Circle likely does have looser rules when it comes to their mages (just like the Kirkwall Circle apparently allowed nobles to use mages as party entertainment in Malcolm's time; before Meredith cracked down on mage movement in later years), but they still can't just come and go as they please.  They need special permission, and I doubt just anyone is granted it.  They're not going to let just anyone run around without Templar oversight and not without good reason.  Notice that most of them seem to be Senior Enchanters, who probably didn't gain their positions by being untrustworthy.  Many of them seem to be older as well, and I imagine that older, and especially elderly mages are less likely to want to endure the lifestyle of a hunted apostate than a younger mage.  They have more reason to return.  Finn is the one of the few we meet who isn't a Senior Enchanter, and he's such a stickler for rules, I suspect by reputation alone it wasn't difficult for him to gain recommendations for permission to leave the tower.  Military service and research seem to be the most common reasons given for leaving the tower, aside from Fraternity meetings.

And it still remains that if they used their permission to never come back, they'd be declared an apostate and hunted down by Templars.  And that would be the end of special outdoors privileges for them, to say the least.

[garrusfan1]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...



Soldiers get paid , even in awakening it is stated , mages not so helping for free because there is no other option because chantry don't allow mages have own wealth unless you escape their influence like hero of ferelden or Hawke (if mages) . And how mages are treated like trashes so if it you that same for dalish...

Bleachrude Wynne is war hero like warden and hawke so she is beyond the control of chantry , Finn is
recruited by hero of ferelden and now warden-commander who saved country twice...

There is a core of elite guards that get paid (Maric's shield, The silver griffons) but most of the army seems to be made up of levies. Levies though don't get paid.

Finn is recruited by the Warden Commander who could be an orlesian that let Amarthanine burn down so it's not because of goodwill he was recruited.

Who is still one of most important peoples in country and big figure for grey wardens. Random peasant who stole food you can tell him if he join to army he will have payment .

uh the one who is recruited by the warden commander was facing death and his family was starving and was happy for it. and all the people in the army get paid (except maybe militia which are generally volunteers) and they generally volunteer

[garrusfan1]

also the chantry decides when magic is tolerated and liked. when fighting the qunari they are the deciding factor (or one of the biggest ones) and after the qunari war was over it went back to them treated like s***

[garrusfan1]

Wompoo wrote...

xxx2emo4Uxxx wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

duckley wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Not, they do not use their magic to do anything for non-magical society. The Chantry forbids it.

I didnt realize it was forbidden by the Chantry. If so, that explains it - although I often wonder why the highlighted words belwo never seemed to gain steam. Perhaps this will be a theme for DA:I?

There is no rule forbidding the use of magic for healing, the problem is accessibility. Plaintiff is one to overstate things fairly often.

It's not an overstatement in the least. The mages are forbidden from accessing and interacting with the outside world generally, that includes using magic on it for any reason.

*Prison* is very big overstatement. mages have more luxury in towers than 97% civilians in thedas.
You wake up in 8:00 am.. you eat... than you learn a bit.. than eat again for.. than learn a bit..  than spend your time with another mages... than eat again for free and go to sleep. everything FREE and guaranteed.
doesnt seem like very cruel life to me.

Not a cruel life  cows in lots are treated the same as well, feed and housed. See if you like being locked in your home for an indefinite period... hmmm, lets say potentially your whole life... its called house arrest, your degree of freedom is based purely on the whims of your jailer. Hopefully DA: I gives me  the option to cleanse Thedas of the Chantry and its "human" Maker.

uh the chantry isn't the problem it is people using it to fufill agendas or to use it for oppression. it was the same problem the early church had (basically when before the 1800s) people misused what it was about.

[dragondreamer]

Finn wasn't recruited by the Warden; he already had permission to leave the tower for research purposes. His interest in going with the Warden was to investigate the Eluvians.

Wynne got permission to go with the Warden for war purposes: fighting the darkspawn.

[LobselVith8]

Bleachrude wrote...

Witchhunt and Awakening shows that you don't even NEED templar oversight.

There's of course that botantist mage  in awakening and Finn seemed tyo have only had to ask the First Enchanter (and not even Gregoir) and IIRC, Isolder mentions that after Eamon was poisoned she had other mages look at Eamon....

Ines was studying a plant that was rumored to grow in Blighted soil after the Fifth Blight made significant parts of Ferelden desolate. Finn asked the templars for permission to leave, in the company of the Warden-Commander of Ferelden.

Bleachrude wrote...

Wynne in both the ending for DA:O and Awakening will be journeying without templar supervision....and you also meet a senior enchanter with his apprentices without any templars around

Which is explicitly noted in Asunder as Wynne being an exception to the rule, and something other Circle mages have a problem with when she advocates against breaking free from the Circle when she, alone, has a great deal of freedom in comparison.

Bleachrude wrote...

So, at least in Ferelden,  senior enchanters seem able to come and ho as the please and even newly Harrowed mahes can leave the circle for reasons .... 

That simply isn't true. Even Wynne, a Senior Enchanter, needed permission to leave the Circle Tower to aid The Warden against the Fifth Blight. And Anders wouldn't have tried to escape several times if mages could simply come and go as they please.

[DarthLaxian]

Rawgrim wrote...

Schools and the military has similar set-ups. Doesn`t make them prisons.

you can opt-out of those (*ringing the bell* as marines would say) - mages do not have that luxury!

and yes, it is slavery - comfortable slavery, but still (everyday a mage can be killed by the templars or tortured or raped, leaving is impossible and you do what the chantry tells you...IMHO that makes you a slave - even more as the outside world has more or less been turned against you (chantry teachings!) and the templars (at least many of them) see you as the lowest form of live on the planet!)

greetings LAX
ps: Mages - at least in the Ferelden Circle - were once taught Weapon-Skills...it was discontinued because of the Templars (!)...i think i can tell which way the wind is blowing by that alone...but i will spell it out:

because a mage that is used to as sword (or any other weapon that can be adapted to channel magic - like say a pair of ritual knives for a blood-mage - is a danger to the guys in metal-suits as Alistair calls himself (and by extension: all other Templars) and maybe even armor is a real problem for a templar (imagine a mage fighting like say Gandalf in Lord of the Rings is - a Mage-Staff in one hand and a one and a half length sword in the other (he can drop the staff once smite has been used and focus on the sword)...yeah, that would be a problem for templars, so they made them stopp...same for blood-magic, they use it when it suits them (phylacterys) and ban it when it does not...or enchanted armor...where do those fancy templars get that?...i guess the circle makes it for them...arming your own jailor...poetic injustice <_<

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 09 juillet 2013 - 12:11 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Quistia...the PLAYER can read... all those codexes and books exist for the PLAYER.

Also, Ser Donald is a knight.

The player is Dalish Elf, City Elf, Caste-less Dwarf, Noble Dwarf, Noble Human and Mage. The player is "The Warden", and "The Warden" can read

I doubt all Knights in medieval Europe can read. Furthermore, the common people in Thedas have access to books easily, not like medieval Europe. Books are everywhere even in the market. Ser Donall even say "if you are interested there are many books here about it...none i found lead me to the location of the Urn" to the Warden no matter what Warden background is. He assume The Warden can read as if reading is a common practice, he didn't ask "Can you read? If so, there are many books here...."

In the Chantry, there are books near kids where we got codexes such as the Black Fox story.

Edit : And if you don't respect me, please respect my name....

Modifié par Qistina, 09 juillet 2013 - 11:07 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Knights were nobility. Nobiltiy had tutors. Yes, they could read.

And frankly I don't think the devs gave much thoughts on the litaracy of TheDas.
They made things simple and convenient for the player.

The Codex exist for the player...not the Warden. Even the the Warden is the player.

[Boycott Bioware]

Not all Knights in real medieval world are nobles and nobility, there are Knights everywhere, some even the most uneducated person in their place could be a Knight. They just an elite guard for the landlord.

I am not European and not historian, but i do read western literature such as King Arthur, Ivan Hoe, Robin Hood and so on also watching movies and documentaries. In King Arthur for example, the Knights only know to jousting whenever they meet each other and nothing else, Sir Lancelot joust more than anyone that is why he is called Lance-A-Lot become Lancelot. There is no education for them, they only know fighting and protect the land,  their master, and get drunk

The one who maybe got some education are Knights of religious order such as Knight Templar, Hospitaler, St John, even so most of them are from the poorest of folks in Europe, even criminals who join Crusade then promoted into Knighthood

Education in Europe is poor, the one who can read mostly are monks, nuns, and some nobles, there are no books in common people houses, they only know how to live, farming, hunting and whatever they do, and paying taxes

In DA world is not the same, education is not privilege in DA world, everyone can read, books can be accessed everywhere, not like medieval Europe where you may find a book in church and monastery

Modifié par Qistina, 09 juillet 2013 - 01:12 .